Cross Border Shopping

C J T

I would really appreciate some general feedback from fellow Canadians who have purchased audio equipment (ar anything for that matter) from an American online store. I have talked to Canada Customs and they have told me that we do not have to pay duty on anything made in Japan, or the US (under NAFTA). I would guess we would have to pay the PST and GST but when do we do that? When it is picked up from the post office? How does it work if the company uses UPS and they deliver it to your door? I know there is a brokerage fee to UPS as well. If the company or individual you buy from used US Mail it gets transfered over to Canada Post at the border and there would be no brokerage fee I assume.

Next issue, the warranty. I have been told that all warranties are void and we are SOL if something goes wrong if it is not purchased in Canada. One salesman even went so far to say a technician wouldn't open a piece of equipment purchased in the US. I highly doubt that. The salesman got really pissed at me when i told him I found the same product for half the price in the US and told me most internet companies are scams, sometimes not the same product, defective, etc. ..and get this...."you are not supporting the local economy buying online". Whatever. It's a Japanese product wherever I get it from. The salesman also said companies like Denon are using secret serial #'s and identification marks to catch and shut down illegit companies. Isn't it to my understanding that these internet companies still have to buy the product from Denon anyways and charge what they want?

I guess this question could be directed at Americans as well. Which companies on line should be avoided? Which ones are better and what are the preferred methods of payment?

I know there was another thread about Denon price guaging Canadians (and they are...some products are half as much in the US) but I thought this topic is worthy of it's own thread. Others could benefit from knowing what is involved with cross border , or any internet shopping for that matter, and what the dangers are.

F1nut

Price ain't everything and you should NEVER piss off your local hifi salesman.

Toxis

Do you only shop off of price? That's the exact reason why electronics have gone down hill so damn fast.

C J T

I made a long detailed post asking for help. I am not so concerned about price rather than being completely ripped off by some internet scam artist.

My question was about buying on line due to the fact there are NONE AVAILABLE IN MY CITY!!!!!!!!!!!


Toxis...you are starting to piss me off.

F1nut

You want safe, try Crutchfield.

...you are starting to piss me off.

Hmmmm..I wonder why???

hamzahsh

You get what you pay for? Personally I'm a salesman at BB Canada for 2 years in Digital Cameras and Camcorders and I know people expect too much for too little that ain't gonna happen! When I show them good stuff they complain about price and if I show them cheap they return and complain about the quality. One thing I've learned that you always pay for the quality of the product and quality parts in it and not for the features, looks or name. Higher the quality, higher the price, better the performance period.

When I bought my Technics SADX940 A/V receiver for $350 CDN. in year 2001 it was good for the money and I knew that its not the top of line stuff but I wanted to experience 5.1 sound, also I was using Magnavox Dolby Surround AVR. I never complained and I still like it. Last year, I bought Yamaha RX-V1400 for $1050 and the difference in sound quality was day and night compare to my old Technics and Magnavox which I still have in my closet.

Now since I got separate amps, my next step is to get a dedicated preamp/processor to take full advantage of them and this time I'll be spending more than I can efford. $ 3500-4000 CDN. I'll be getting ANTHEM AVM30 or next model up in about couple of years. I'll wait till new formats come out and probably something like "EXTREAME DACs" 24/384khz in the market or similar.

Never let the price be an issue! if you can spend money on a house, car, insurance, tax, bills or even a big screen tv then you might as well spend on a quality audio components as well. After all why we have those plactic cards for?

sowen010599

For online e-tailers, look them up here..... http://www.resellerratings.com/

You can see what kind of reviews other customers have given them. Some good, some bad, it weeds out the scam sites though.

Keep in mind, most e-tailers are NOT authorized dealers. That means NO FACTORY WARRANTY! I strongly suggest that if you purchase online, you buy a 3rd party warranty. Most warranty companies require you buy the warranty within XX days from the date of the units purchase. They do that to keep people from buying warranties after their crap breaks just to get them fixed. You'd be awfully upset if your new $1,000 receiver pops and you have no warranty, and didn't spend the $30 to get one.

C J T

Are third party warranties often offered by the person selling?

I checked out the Denon website and there is no mention of a warranty being voided if a product is purchased in the US. It only says it has to be an authorized dealer or edealer.. That's good to know.

Seriously folks, put yourself in my shoes for one second. Buying a AVR3805 for $1500 CAD here from a dealer, or buying one from an authorized dealer in the US to save a few hundred. It's just smart...., if I can be assured I won't get ripped off. That's why I am asking these questions to honest folks like yourself who have maybe done this.

dave shepard

Originally posted by hamzahsh
I'll be getting ANTHEM AVM30 or next model up in about couple of years. I'll wait till new formats come out and probably something like "EXTREAME DACs" 24/384khz in the market or similar.

Funny you should mention the Anthem (not to steal the thread) I've looked into them and see over at HT forum there is a thread as long as a legal library about the Anthum. Are they that good? What makes them so?

Dave

LuSh

I hope you buy the product and get scammed.

It's people like you who killed hifi stores around my area. You buy things based on price and internet articles rather then listening for them yourself, in the end you save money on a high retail priced midi-fi system.

True hifi stores shouldn't have to compete with pricing but more with service, it use to be a service and trustfull industry now its all about lack of it, and poorly executed systems.

C J T

Holy crap buddy you need to relax. Me buying a factory reconditioned model on line for a discounted price is helping the Denon company out. BIG TIIME .It would be discarded for nothing if this service was not available. I see what you mean man, but c'mon. We all win here. I can't afford to pay what a new model is selling for in the model I prefer. This way I can. And Denon gets back something too and can continue to be the best company and offer us the products they do. I buy my share of products from the local stores. trust me.

You know, let me put it to you another way.

Last year I spend $5000 on a HT set up that I was assured the greatest because I was green. It was a Panasonic SA HE 200 and now I find reading here it's crap. I took a loss from what some salesman told me.

It works both ways, buddy.

Toxis

Originally posted by C J T
Toxis...you are starting to piss me off.

Interesting. Interesting how easily people get so worked up over the 'Net. Kinda funny when you think about it...

VE6OHV

Canada Customs will just send you a bill in the mail. Be prepared for a shocker! The first time I bought cross boarder it was 2 sets of Crown and Pinions. Shipped UPS to my door - the dealer included freight, I thought "What a Deal!" I saved $200 CAD just by ordering on-line. Well when it all shook down it took several weeks) When USP dropped the parts off, my wife had to pay them for the freight from the border to our door $48.00. Then I recieved a bill in the mail from UPS - "Brokerage Fees" $65.00 CAD, ok ok - live and learn, then I get a Bill in the mail from Canada Customs and Revenue, GST (because I live in Alberia no PST) $37.00 CAD, and Duty fee's $40.00 CAD.

hmmm - so my "Deal" saved me 10 bucks... Then I get the Visa bill...... The exchange rate that they use is not what is posted on the Bank of Canada website.....

All told - I paid 30 bucks more on-line then I would have off the shelf local, and it was a pain in the A**

I have found that it is worth it to shop around in Canada before ordering "State Side".

Oh and BTW

It is my opinion that "Denon" is NOT the "be all" and "end all" of the electronics world - I have been very dissapointed in the performance of my AVR 1803, it has been a warranty nightmare (spent more time in the shop than at home).

phoneisbusy

C J T,

Don't know much about ordering on-line with US sites but I have bought equipment and had it shipped across the border.

You will want to take into account the current backlog at customs (a recent article stated a 5 week backlog in the Vancouver facility) it you ship USPS -> Canada Post. This is likely part of the job action from the customs workers as they're neogotiating a new contract.

UPS's reputation seems to vary from sadistic to inept. They will charge you a brokerage fee and I've heard that the fee may also vary with the value of your package (i.e. base price plus a percentage of the value). You should verify this with UPS.

You do have the ability to track packages with UPS/FedEx but the USPS/Canada post does not offer this service (at least cheaply).
Canada Post is the cheapest for brokerage though ($5). But they're pretty slow.

I use a post office drop off at Pt. Roberts Wa for my packages. I have packages delivered there, and I will go and pick up the packages and clear them through customs myself. The advantage is if the package is damage, you can send it back then and not have to deal with shipping it across the border again.

The best method for me is to ship to friends in Seattle and have them bring it up when the visit. Works well for me.

regards

Dave

hamzahsh

C J T, this is a 3rd and final time I'm letting you know as a fellow Canadian whether you thank me or not. If you want to shop on-line then visit now at!

http://www.audioshop.on.ca

They carry Yamaha 1400/2400 models also they carry many other brands, Adcom, Cambridge Audio, etc., They are the authorized dealer of all the brands they carry.

As I've posted before there customer service is the best I've experienced. Contact Mark Hallam. Send him email and find out the final total! Also they use FED EX which is the best in the world in my opinion. Keep in mind they don't do refund, only exchange.

I bought my Adcom GFA-7605 5-ch amp from them and love there Customer Service.

DON'T by across the border! taxes and customs are horrible in Canada. Very expensive!
:mad:

C J T

Hamzash...(sp?)

I checked out the site...I think their prices are way too high ....They were clearing out the 2400 last month for $800.

besides, I have decided on the AVR 3805. I pick it up tomorrow. $1150 Canadian ($916 US) ...bought in Canada , full warranty.

You know...let me make a post here to tell people just how much things are marked up in the electronics world.

All figures in Canadian dollars.

Denon 3805. On the shelf, $1895. Went to both Denon dealerships here. I didn't play "match them" games. Didn't tell each of them about the other quote..They both said just above cost $1475. Ran into a guy at work today who told me he happened to buy a new receiver, I asked which one... he tells me Denon 3805. I tell him that's the one I really want and have been shopping around but they are just a little more than i wanted to spend. He said he got his for $1150 because he is best friends with the manager in one of the stores here...told me he would get me one tomorrow. And that's $50 above cost! I knew there was mark up, but really...$1895 on the shelf, $1100 cost.

hamzahsh

Originally posted by C J T
Hamzash...(sp?)

What do mean by ...(sp?)

Congrats! I'm glad you finally made the decision. Denon 3805 is an excellent choice. Just let you know it doesn't come with the microphone to calibrate the speakers. I guess you've to borrow from your friend. It is not a big deal.

Let us know when you get it. There are more Denon users here than Yamaha so feel free to ask questions about it.

dorokusai

(sp?) = Spelling?

F1nut

Geez dude, they have to eat too! I've got news for you the actual cost is a lot less than $1100.00.

C J T

That's $1100 Canadian. i take it you are a stereo salesman.

Thanks Hash.....yes sp means spelling...your handle is hard to remember...:)

I think i will buy the mike. i will want to play around with it and may want to have it handy.

F1nut

Yes, I knew that. :rolleyes:

Nope, just know a few more things than you.

C J T

Then i don't feel so bad.

Get real anyways. we all are out to get product for the best price we can. And you know I will continue to buy more products. the bug has hit me.