Low Pass Filter issue with PSW 404

C J T

I have a question regarding the low pass filter. With my Panasonic SA HE 200 (soon to be replaced) I have the sub wire going from the Pre out "sub" jack to the "filtered" jack on the sub. Apparantly this bypasses the sub's low pass filter control. Well, when i turn the low pass knob it works. Why? I have my filter on the Panny set to 100, the lowest it will go. I have two other options, 150, and 200.

Also, there is pre out jacks marked "surround back"...what are these for? an amp to run my backs? Is this where i would plug a 2 channel amp? Could it be I could keep this Panny and just get a 2 channel addition?

Thanks.

Mjr7531

If I'm reading this correctly, you aren't plugging the subwoofer cable into the LFE(bypassed), are you plugging it into the L/R connectors?
Secondly yes those pre-amp outs would be meant for a stereo amp.

Hoping to clarify,
Matt

C J T

Yes it looks like I am doing that. The instruction manual said if my receiver is filtered, to plug it into the filtered jack on the sub (L)...Am I reading this wrong? Either way, is it better to use the receiver filter or the low pass on the sub? Right now it seems like I am using both having it plugged into L instead of LFE. Am I making sense? My receiver as stated only has 3 settings for a filter: 100, 150, and 200. Where should that be set at?

So ...if this jack on my receiver says Pre amp rear speakers(can someone look at the specs on my Panny SaHe 200??) what would i do to boost power to my front RTi12's with a power amp?

sorry, this adding an amp to a receiver thing has me confused. maybe someone can explain that?

C J T

adding......why use a L + R connector (Y connector) ? isn't bass mono?

Tour2ma

Y-splitting into both sub inputs does increase the signal strength by 3 dB (whether that helps or not depends on the sub's capabilities).

CJT,
Sounds like a typo (or a good old fashioned error to me) given the results you are sighting.
Either:
- crank your sub's crossover setting to maximum; or
- swap to the sub's LFE input which is unfiltered ...
and you're good to go...

As for the AVR's side surround outs, yes, they are for moving up to a 7.1 system. Your Pannie has decoding capability for 7.1, but only 5 ch's of amplification built in...

C J T

A stereo shop in town here says those pre outs marked "surround back" are to power rear surround speakers and will not work on the fronts. Is that true? i still have some confusion as to why i need a power amp and how to hook it up.

In regards to the low bypass, I would think I have more control using that setting on the sub as mt receiver just has the three settings. Where should I set the filter on the receiver? I don't think i can turn it off completely.

Thanks again!

Tour2ma

First, the sub...
Should have two choices: Yes (as in I have one) and No (as in no gots one)... Basically this turn the sub ouput on/off, but it also determines where the low frequencies sent to your mains ends (rolls off to be more precise).

I believe that if you choose to tell your AVR that you do not have a sub, then you will need to put the sub in the line to your mains, i.e., run the speaker wires to the sub and then from the sub to your mains. Then you can adjust the sub's x-over to blend it with your mains.

Your Pannie's lowest setting, 100 Hz, is a tad higher than most would choose (80 is the common choice, a virtual default), but it might work for you. What sub do you have? What mains?

Regardless, the beauty of it is, you can try setting your bass management up both ways (just takes a little more patience).

Now the Pannie's rear pre-outs...
These are line level outs, they are not amplified so you do need an amp to utilize them. Not too surprising that they are directed to a specific duty and you do not have the ability to assign them as you please...

Not desparaging your rig, but the Pannie is way at the entry level AVR end of the line. I know it was a Consumer Reports "Best Buy" a year or so ago, so it's a decent performer in the class of AVR that CR reviews... but they only review entry level gear. I know this because I bought one for my daughter, but she wanted to go another route so I sold it to a friend of HBomb's who needed it for an apartment rig...

You'll get your set-up working. I'll do what I can to help, so keep asking questions... If you have a link to your Pannnie's Owners Manual or other info, it may help me help you. I checked the Panasonic site, and it's no longer listed there....

C J T

Thanks Tour2Ma....I really need some help here. Really appreciate your time.

my sub is a Polk PSW404. my fronts are Polk RTi12's, rears RTi28, centre Csi50.

No worries, I know my Pannie is entry level. I know it was rated #i in CR and they appeal to the average consumer. They said my receiver was the "Toyota Camry" of receivers. Not a Lexus, but great value. I was one of those guys, and still am to a point, who thought big names (Denon, HK, etc) meant more money, not necessarily better. I am still on the fence whether I will notice a difference. The guy I bought the Pannie from said I have a good product and upgrading would be useless for my needs, especially in a small condo.

I will start from the beginning....I bought a condo downtown, steel and concrete highrise so I can turn it up a little...my living room is small. My old Technics speakers were making my Pannie TV go green as they are not shielded, so I bought some RTi12's to match my other Polk speakers. I love them but i get the feeling my AVR is not powerful enough even though it is rated at 110W per channel..Misconception I know as this is a 6ohm rating. As mentioned my living room is small but I know more power will make my 12's sound better even at a low volume. Right now I hear very minimal bass out of them. I have read here that no AVR will do the 12's justice but I don't know what to do. I have an OK AVR that is plenty loud enough. I guess I was wondering if a 2ch amp added to the Pannie would save me some cash and give me the power I need insread of buying a better AVR.

I have been looking for a new AVR. I am leaning towards a Yamaha RXV 2400 but I can't find a new one in my city. I am looking on line now for used. I see a 1400 I can get from Toronto used on EBay for $500 Canadian. Or I can wait for the 2500 and pay $1300 new. tough choice.

I also have A DJ business on the side and rent my equipment from a friend each gig, but looking to buy some equipment. Maybe a professional Crown or QSC amp would plug into my home AVR? I guess that's another topic for later.

So now I have this delemma.
1)Keep my current set up until I move to a house and try to configure it to its best ability.
2) Look for a good deal on a Yammie 2400 or 1400 or Denon 2805, sell my Pannie to a friend
3) Wait and buy the 2500.

I still need some guidance on adding an amp. I don't understand how that works. If I want surround for movies, do i need amps for every channel? Can I use my AVR for surround and the power amp to listen to the music without having to unplug everything?

Thanks Tour2Ma. or anyone else who can guide me. I have posted lots lately because I am new to all this and want to learn.

C J T

One more thing Tor2Ma:

The way you mentioned....wiring the mains to the sub and back to the receiver. Is that better? I was told by many it is not.

Thanks.

Tour2ma

It's the "Polk way" not the "Club Polk way"... we tend to favor the cable LFE route...

I am really torn on which way to advise you to go, at least short term with your current set up... Long term you need to grab a "little" (and by this I mean alot) more gusto... RTi12's have eaten a lot "badder" AVR's than you are running...

Again not to insult, but your Pannie is not even close to a Camry... It's not a Yugo, either though... Maybe a Neon or a Celica... Step up and I guarantee you will hear a difference...

Where is the sub relative to the mains and center? On the same wall? Right or left of the mains or between them?

Should be about the last set of questions...

And you are very welcome... Just happy to pass on some of what I've learned here...

BTW, a year ago I was asking more basic questions than you are...

C J T

When sitting on my couch, I look at the TV about 7 feet away from me...my 12's are on each side of the TV, sub is to the left, beside the left speaker, in a corner.

Can you explain more what adding an amp does? How do i run a HT surround set up with an amp added?

Another thread has stated the Yamaha 2400 will only really push 45 W per channel with all channels driven. My Pannie can't be far off that. I am not defending the Pannie and I agree with you, it's entry level. Just wondering how much of a difference I will hear in my tiny condo.

one more thing....if I run my sub and use its filter, do I set my AVR filter to its lowest setting? (100) Do I use a Y connector on the sub to L & R, or can i just use the L jack? I get conflicting info. One said it increases bass by 3db, another said I would not notice. A Y connector added to my Monster sub cable is only $12.00 ...

C J T

Sorry Tour2Ma...you were the one who said the Y cable increases by 3db.:)

is using a Y plug add on ok or should i get a new sub cable with 2 ends?

Thanks again...

Tour2ma

Got no sense that you were getting defensive about your Pannie, and that's to your credit... a lesser person would have took what I was sayiing a bashing rather than the honest, albeit brutal, truth... Good on you for that...

Aside: Do you have a SPL meter and HT calibration DVD?

On the added amp...
Let's set that aside for now, get you set up with what you have and then come back to it...

On the Y-splitter...
With one in place your sub's amp will have to work less hard to produce a given SPL, but the driver still has to do the same amount of work. So you won't get an added 3 dB max output... A sub can only do what a sub can do... Capice?

So yes, do Y-split... can do no harm, as long asyou are judicious in your listening levels (being in a condo, I am sure your neighbors will help you here, should you have a weak moment), and can do some good, i/e/. reducing the amp's duty as mentioned above...

On your layout...
Reason I asked was to see how distracting it might be to x-over at 100 Hz or higher... Some debate on the exact frequency that you begin to localize sound, i.e., can pinpoint the source, but most agree that this begins above 80 Hz (thus the "magic" number I alluded to earlier).

Your sub is not too far afield from your main soundstage, so I think you should try to send as much signal there as possible. Why? Lighten the load on your Pannie as much as possible (and I would be saying the same thing about other "low power" AVR's).

So 1st get your Y-splitter in place, use the sub's LFE input(s) and set your Pannie to x-over at 100 and calibrate your system. You Go ahead and set your sub's x-over to max, but it should be bypassed using the LFE inputs.

Listen to 3 or so DVD selections at what would be a typical evening, not-too-worried-about-the-neighbors, listening level and get a sense of performance (sound quality (SQ), accuracy of the soundstage, etc.).

Then move the Pannie's x-over up to 150 and repeat the calibration (some will change) and audition with the same DVD's and scenes.

Repeat again at 200 Hz setting...

It may help to jot down some notes on your impressions, and have a few performance parameters written down to keep you focussed...

Do the above and report back, and/or post any questions that arise...

... and we'll get back to the add-on amp discussion as well...

Have fun..

C J T

Ananymouse...thanks for the tip...one question though. The pre outs on my Pammy are marked "surround back" and from what Tour2Ma has told me, they are for a 7.1 set up, for additional rears with an amp plugged in there first. So you are saying I should run a RCA from those jacks to the filtered L & R jacks on the sub? And change my sub to "no" on my receiver? You also mentioned to run the sub cable from sub out on the Panny to the unfiltered LFE on the sub. So do I do both? I am a little confused.

Tour2ma

Originally posted by anonymouse
... I would set fronts to large...

anon...
Did you read what his set up is?

Tour2ma

Because his AVR is like 45 wpc...

Tour2ma

Sure, 45 wpc is adequate, if your "normal listening level" is under 86 dB... Polk recommends a minimum of 50 wpc, and I think that's low by at least a factor of two (2). On this point, let's just agree to disagree...

I also do not understand your x-over blending concern. If properly calibrated, the front stage should be seamless from a FR standpoint for HT. Imaging? Different question... Music... different set up... for 2 ch operation the Pannie will hump up a tad more (60 or 70 wpc x 2, I think), and I would set "Sub" to "No or Off".

I do agree with you that the 12's have a great deal of bass potential, so it's a shame to not utilize it. With a far more capable AVR I would be talking in the 45 to 60 Hz range as a crossover point for HT...

CJT,
Beauty is that once you are "wired", you can easily play with the AVR settings and experiment...

If you run your mains set to large, however, do understand that if you push too hard you will drive your Pannie into clipping. The 12's are 8-ohm, but they still need power to make them sing.

C J T

I live in a condo and do not crank it that loud...just looking for the best sound, even at low levels.

Thanks guys for your input.

Then again, we all assume we are guys