Help with Carver Amazings

shack
shack Posts: 11,154
edited November 2004 in Vintage Speakers
Hey guys. I need your input here. I'm trying to help out hotwheelman on some Amazings in a local pawn shop. I think they are the originals. Smaller than Troy's. Maybe 4' tall with a single ribbon tweeter. I haven/t checked out the woofers yet but the original only had 3....right? The guy's asking $699....I offered $400 and he came back at $600. I gotta think he will come a little lower but probably only $500/$550 at best. Are we in the ballpark here? The wood is in pretty good shape (gloss black) but the grill cloth is in poor shape. Both seem to be working but they are hooked up on an el cheapo AVR and they are towed OUT in the middle of the pawn shop. What should I look for other than the cosmetics here? I have absolutely NO experience with these speakers other than my visit to Troy's so any help as to what to look for or a price point will be helpful.

Thanks

shack
"Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

"Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited October 2004
    Unless you get those on some good power, and make sure the ribbons aren't wheezing and rattling....pass.

    If the ribbons are bad, it would be the worst investment ever at that price.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2004
    Originally posted by dorokusai
    Unless you get those on some good power, and make sure the ribbons aren't wheezing and rattling....pass.

    If the ribbons are bad, it would be the worst investment ever at that price.
    In doing some research I read where it can cost up to $500/$600 for replacement/rebuilt ribbons. This will probably have to be Mike's call. He may need to make a road trip to K-town. Thanks doro
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited October 2004
    Those are the Silver Edition, one 48" ribbon and three 12" woofers per panel. The Bluebook prices them used at 2k for the pair, but don't believe it, $500.00 is about all they are getting these days. As Mark states, if the ribbons buzz you need to consider that, but new 48" ribbons are available from Parts Express for not a lot of money compared to getting the 60" ribbons rebuilt. There is also a way to tighten the screws on the ribbons that can fix the buzzing without having to replace them.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited October 2004
    I would like to be considered in on a purchase. 600 aint bad but we'll talk.

    h
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited October 2004
    Bandwagon.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited October 2004
    Those, indeed, are the Silvers. Not as tough a load to drive as the originals but receivers and low powered amps need not apply. 600 if they work (big if) isn't a bad deal at all, IMO. Seen 'em go higher and a few lower.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited October 2004
    I'm certainly not saying their not a deal at <600, working 100%....just that if the ribbons are shot, why bother.

    Parts Express or not, I'm personally not paying 600 bones for something that I have to fix.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited October 2004
    Originally posted by dorokusai

    Parts Express or not, I'm personally not paying 600 bones for something that I have to fix.

    Agree completely.

    Well, I've had about all of this that I can stand.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited October 2004
    Hey Troy, Call me tonight....I don't have your number....did Paul talk to you? Email me ASAP.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • hotwheelman
    hotwheelman Posts: 1,300
    edited October 2004
    First off let me say thanks to shack for doing this( I surely do appreciate it ) as I has just sort of written them off as I figured the guy was just stuck at 800, when I tried to call him from where I am at he wouldn't even get on the phone and talk to me about them at all, he just told the girl to tell me 800 and he would eat the tax...what a turdhead.

    I think I would still be interested in them if they could be had for around the 500 mark. I think that maybe two factors should come into play here, one what do those woofers look like under the cover (I did not have time to remove them when I was down), and two how those ribbons do under some decent power. Only problem I have right now is I do not have an amp with enough nuts to drive them with to check that out, any suggestions? If a good amp could be connected and those ribbons are buzzing then a body should be able to get him on down there...right?

    Shack, I was thinking that I might take stroll down to k town over the weekend ( if time permits ) to go over and have second look at them, what are your plans?

    F1, I looked at p.e.'s web site and could not locate anything but the small ribbon tweeters, do you know about how much they run?


    Thanks for the help guys,
    HWM
    "Its worked so far but we're not out yet."
    "Hey big man let me hold a dollar"
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2004
    Mike, I might have some time on Sat. if you are coming down. I will PM you my phone #.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited October 2004
    Mike,

    I was right about Parts Express carrying the 48" ribbons, but wrong about the price. I seem to recall they were a lot less the last time I looked.

    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=264-704&DID=7
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited October 2004
    Originally posted by F1nut
    Mike,

    I was right about Parts Express carrying the 48" ribbons, but wrong about the price. I seem to recall they were a lot less the last time I looked.

    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=264-704&DID=7

    I knew, beings I have the frickin' catalog in my bathroom.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited October 2004
    Right next to BiGGin's
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited October 2004
    And my extra special edition of "Blueboy".
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2004
    Kinda put a whole new light on that "not a lot of money" theory to replace the ribbons. And the worst part is that Doro was right...His head is gonna get as big as Russ' if were not careful.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • hotwheelman
    hotwheelman Posts: 1,300
    edited October 2004
    Shack, I would say there is 100% chance that I will be tied up here in town and not able to make it down over the weekend, if you happen to swing back by there see what you can get him to.


    Catch you on the flip,
    Mike
    "Its worked so far but we're not out yet."
    "Hey big man let me hold a dollar"
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited October 2004
    Silvers... yes.

    New ribbons??? Plenty of places will repair them for $300 to $400 per... There's at least one in TN. Even the repair price is a good sized layout that you do not want to buy into...

    Humidity changes are the #1 culprit behind ribbon delamination... Is Tennesee that humid?

    As BDT said, $600 ain't bad. Last year on eBay it was tough to touch a pair for under $800. This year softened a bit with a one going for $500 and one for $600, but four went in the $700's and one topped $800.

    Take something amp-wise to the shop that'll exercise them (couple hundred wpc should do) AND a wide variety of music (no problem for shack...). Hard to predict what'll trigger the dreaded buzz... Include some test tone sweeps, if you can.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • hotwheelman
    hotwheelman Posts: 1,300
    edited October 2004
    I'm gonna have to see what I can come up with, only amp I have right now wouldn't even begin to do the trick. I will check with my repair buddy to see if he has a carver I can borrow, would one of the carver cubes have enough to juice them?
    "Its worked so far but we're not out yet."
    "Hey big man let me hold a dollar"
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited October 2004
    An M-400 would get close enough... Troy powered his CA's for a while with a single one... and they're portable. :)

    Of course more would be better...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • hotwheelman
    hotwheelman Posts: 1,300
    edited October 2004
    Shack,


    Been back by the pawn lately? If you happen to get near there see what you can get him to and get back to me.



    Thanks,
    Mike
    "Its worked so far but we're not out yet."
    "Hey big man let me hold a dollar"
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2004
    It may be a few days. I'll let you know.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • hotwheelman
    hotwheelman Posts: 1,300
    edited October 2004
    Originally posted by shack
    It may be a few days. I'll let you know.

    Thanks a mill.
    "Its worked so far but we're not out yet."
    "Hey big man let me hold a dollar"
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited November 2004
    Mike, went by the pawnshop today....Still marked $699 and still says $600 is the best he can do. Still no way to get to the woofers but the ribbons look pretty good through the opening with no obvious wrinkles or problems. Grill cloth picked bad...there seems to be some rust or discoloration of the screws on the bases. Tough call at $600.

    shack
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited November 2004
    Amateurs, SHEESH!


    I spent a lot of time with a pair of Silver's that had a buzz. The interesting thing was, it would only buzz at a certain point in one song. A hundred other songs were rendered accurately. Bottom line? You could spend half a day in that shop listening to tunes that MIGHT NOT EXCITE THE BUZZ, only to take them home and find that your favorite song does!

    The Silver's that buzzed were a pair that I found for my friend Harold about 10-12 years ago. He kept on breaking my chops about me selling him my Platinums. Knowing full well that wasn't going to happen I finally got tired of his crying and zeroed in on a pair of Silvers for him. They didn't buzz initially here in Jersey. It wasn't till he moved to Arizona that the buzzing manifested itself.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2004
    At that price I doubt that they will sell anytime soon.

    Hmmmmmm.....you guys keep pussyfooting around with 'em and I might just have to get the Lovely Wendi a pair of Silvers for her rig. ;)

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited November 2004
    Very true, GG... I've heard the dreaded "buzz" one time on one note on one classical piece. Did "rewind" the CD to be sure and it did do it again (so technically I guess I heard it twice). Funny thing was a 2nd "rewind" did not produce a 3rd buzz...

    Ditto, Troy... not at that price...

    Two things seem a bit strange on these CA's:
    1.) The perfectly smooth ribbons... your CA's are the smoothest I have seen and they have a regular ripple pattern in them (mine are more irregular).
    2.) The rusty screws... certainly says they've seen serious moisture (as in basement storage I'd guess). Not a threat to the ribbons in and of itself, but when they dry out...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2004
    At a pawnshop? pfffffffffffft...they will be there pretty much indefinately.

    I wouldn't mind putting a pair of Silvers in Wendi's rig.......hmmmmmmmmmmm.

    On the one hand, I'd love to do it just because but on the other, there are so many other speakers that I want to own....

    Friggin' hobby.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited November 2004
    I was thinking of picking up a pair for Wendi myself.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2004
    As long as the Silvers reside at 5424 Ansley Trail I have ZERO issues with that.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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