Where should one begin in tubes?

Early B.

I don't know much about tube gear, but I'm interested in experimenting. So where should the novice begin?

1. Should he start with acquiring a tube amp or pre-amp?

2. What brands or specific models are good to start with?
(NOTE: not interested in the kits.)

3. What type of speakers work best with tubes? Do Lsi7's work well with tubes?

4. What features, build quality, specs, etc. should one look for when shopping for tube components?


Thanks.

PolknPepsi

I would start with a Cayinta30 and just about any Klipsch speaker.

Do some research.......that is what sparked my interest.

.......:rolleyes:

RuSsMaN

What P-n-P? Do you have or ever had, any tube gear?

Start with a tube preamp. No biasing, usually a simple and affordable tube compliment. No hassle, little expense to start - a great way to get into tubes.

A budget would be helpful, there are too many brands to just name a few.

Cheers,
Russ

organ

Like Russ said. Easiest way is to start with a tube pre if you already own a SS amp. Another great way is to start with a simple tube integrated amp like the ones from Antique Sound Lab or Jolida. I've also heard great things about Cayin. The ones from ASL have built in bias meters to make biasing fast and easy.

High efficiency speakers especially horns work best with tubes. You'd want to make sure they're 8 Ohms nominal as well. Anything in the high 90's to those approaching 100db/w/m will sound great. The more efficient, the better. Take a look at the Reference line from Klipsch. Forget the Synergy line. The 2ch guys on the Klipsch forum say they're no good for 2ch.

The LSi series will not sound good with tubes compared to more efficient speakers. I had my LSi9 hooked up to my tube amp and the Klipsch destroyed it in terms of sound quality.

For your final question... Ignore specs when it comes to tube gear. The specs for SS will be superior compared to tubes, but we know which sounds better:). What you want to look for is the type of tubes being used, ease of use, tube or SS rectification, etc. Power ratings will always be small unless you spend big $. That's why you'd want eff speakers.

What's your budget?

Maurice

Tour2ma

Best thing is not to begin at all... whole 'nother strain of audio virus there. But if you must...

I agree with the pre-amp approach. Keeps the remainder of your rig in play so it's simple, inexpensive and you can judge for yourself the benefits.

Next steps are likely to get more costly and complex, but if you buy used you can recover most, if not all, of your investment. Especially if you try widely available amps like stock, or near stock, Dynakit ST-70's.

If your timing of the ebay cycles is right, you even have a chance to come out ahead. Prices will drop from now to Christmas (used 40 year-old tube amps ain't under the tree material, real estate taxes are coming due, etc.) and spike up in late January or February when the bonuses and tax refunds start hitting wallets...

Slight issue with organ on speakers... Your music taste will play a significant role in determining how well tube amps will mix with your LSi's, or any less efficient speaker.
Rock and full orchestra? Not likely to be a very satisfying mix...
Jazz and light classical? Much better chance...

Early B.

Thanks for the responses, fellas. A budget wasn't provided because I didn't know where to start. I certainly don't want to change out my entire system at this time. I'll begin by doing some research on tube pre-amps.

dcarlson

If you can solder and have the ambition to build one, this pre is pretty cheap and supposed to sound great. I bought one a few months ago and just haven't got around to building it. I'm going to give it a go in the next couple of weeks.

http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/foreplay/foreplay_line_stage_kit.htm

PolknPepsi

Russman,

No..I have never had or do I own any tube gear. That is what I would start with..........

............................:D ..Pat

Early B.

Best thing is not to begin at all... whole 'nother strain of audio virus there.

Been thinking about it some more and Tour's advice may be the way to go here. I think what I'll do first is listen to some tube pre-amps and then decide, although that could prove to be problematic. I have a friend with a tube pre-amp (not sure the brand or model) and quite frankly, it doesn't sound any better than my Parasound PH/P 850. Of course that's not a fair assessment because there's so many other considerations, but I'm not totally sold on tubes yet and I'd at least like to hear how a decent tube pre enhances an existing system before I take the plunge. Maybe I'll visit to some high end audio stores in the area and check them out.

Lots of ads for SS amps and pre-amps talk about a "tube sound" or that their stuff is as "warm" as tubes. The question I'd really like to know is what extent some of the newer model SS amps and pre-amps approach the sound of low end tube components (less than about $750 used). ???

I'd also like to know whether or not getting a true tube sound really requires an all or nothing proposition -- changing out all of your gear to tubes and purchasing highly efficient speakers. ???

madmax

A Jolida 302A used on ebay for around $600 to $700 is the way I would go. It is an integrated amp, will last a lifetime and is extremely sexy. EL-34 is a great tube and the 302A uses 4 of them to give you 50 watts per channel. It sounds like much more. Since it is an integrated amplifier you can plug a CD player into it directly through a single set of good interconnects and you eliminate a lot of the cost of a seperate pre-amp with little or no penalty. With really cheap tubes it sounds really good. With very expensive tubes it sounds great and is hard to top.
madmax


No affiliation but this looks like a good example of one.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1101953029

Tour2ma

EB,
Thanks, but I was just expanding on Russman's rec...

Whether it's tube's speed vs. SS or what, I do not know, but there is a smoothness there. That "glow" is very seductive. Obviously max is hardcore addict.

When you heard your friend's tube pre, was it on your system? If not, you can't draw any conclusions. So invite him and his pre over some evening. Easiest and least expensive way for you to get a taste of them tubes...

dorokusai

If you don't remember what your friend owns, then cross it off the list. I agree w/ Tour in that you should hear it on your gear, but first impressions are everything, and I say move on.

If you want to smoke that Parasound up, there are alot of choices for tubed pre-amps.....well under $750....that's easy.

organ

Tour,
Yeah, I guess I got a little too excited there. The LSi did a fine job for really light stuff. It's just that dynamics is very important for me and sometimes, without thinking I just assume it's the same for everyone. My bad.

Early,
When you hear people talk about SS gear sounding like tubes, it's usually because the equipment sounds very warm for a SS device. I've never heard a SS amp or pre produce mids and highs like tubes. And most important, you won't get that bLOOm with SS. Tubes also add texture to the sound. Best way to describe it is to pretend you're hearing some vocal recording. We know that when we hear a note, it's not only one frequency being produced by the vocalist. It's a combination of different freqencies to make one. This is the kind of thing you get with tubes. It adds its own flavor to the sound that IMO is missing in the recording but can be heard in live music.

You don't need a full blown tube set up to enjoy tube sound. You can start with a tube pre/ss amp and from there see if you want more tube sound. One thing I love about tubes is the ability to change the overall sound signature of your system by swapping tubes. You won't feel like you need to upgrade the amp or pre when the upgrade bug hits. You'll feel like trying out a different brand of tubes.

Maurice

BlueMDPicker

Originally posted by madmax
A Jolida 302A used on ebay for around $600 to $700 is the way I would go.

madmax,

I know the Jolida 302 wouldn't drive my MG-1's satisfactorily, but what are your feelings about its capabilities with the SDA-2b's or Monitor 11's here? We share some musical interests, so very interested in your thoughts.

What do you think about the modified Jolida 302/502's ?

Mike

madmax

I am very happy with the output with 1C's which are very close. Never tried 2b's or monitors. Keep in mind if you listen at high volume you would need 2.3's or 1.2's because of their efficiency. As for the mods, my opinion is that these are very minor mods which you could do in a few afternoons. The price they are charging is reasonable though. I have a 502 also. It doesn't seem to have the magic of the 302 and the power difference is minimal.
madmax

BlueMDPicker

What mods have you done to your 302, Chuck?

madmax

The 302 has the balance control bypassed and some resistors/capacitors upgraded. Nothing big.
madmax

BlueMDPicker

Originally posted by Early B.
Thanks for the responses, fellas. A budget wasn't provided because I didn't know where to start. I certainly don't want to change out my entire system at this time. I'll begin by doing some research on tube pre-amps.

Here's a sexy looking remote, tube preamp listed by the seller I just purchased my Anthem Pre 2L from.

No affiliation

Audio Mirror T-61 Eargasm

Gotta' love the name!