THX Questions from a Polk product developer

Early B.

I own a Parasound amp that has THX stamped on it, but it certainly has no value in my mind. I think THX is just a gimmick. If you buy decent gear, no need to worry about certification.

Polkies just say "no" to THX.

Thank you for asking. Now that you have received a genral consensus on this topic, can we politely ask you more specifically why you have posed these questions?

Toxis

Originally posted by RuSsMaN
Why would I be talking to you? Dial back the paranoia knob a little.

Cheers,
Rooster

paranoia? No.. just confused. Thought you meant me.

Again, why does everyone think it's stupid to have an extra logo on a speaker? If it increases sales and makes Polk more money, how's this hurting you?

F1nut

Toxis, re-read this thread and maybe you'll understand.

Frank Z

It's not the logo that bothers most folks, it's the change to the speaker to get it to meet the THX spec's.

If it ain't broke....

Tour2ma

Originally posted by F1nut
Now, since I have your attention let's talk about 3 letters that do mean something, SDA. Please bring them back.
Jesse

Here, here...

I want to add my thanks for asking...

Do you own a piece of THX certified equipment?
Yes, my B&K AVP is THX Certified, but I did not know that at the time I bought it. And up until a second ago when I looked, I did not know it was Ultra II certified.

How do you like it?
I think it's a fantastic piece of equipment on it's own merits.

Do you think a THX certified speaker is better than one that isn't?
No. Of the two, I'd like the one that sounds better.

Do you think it adds value to a product?
No. It is my understanding that the mfg. has to pay a licensing fee to gain and label their products as THX certified, thus increasing up the cost of the item. In my book, that's hurting the value.

Do you think it adds resale value to that product?
It might for others, but no one here that I read.

Would you pay more for a THX certified speaker than one that isn't?
Not because it was certified, but if it also happened to be a better speaker... sure.

Do you think that matching a THX certified speaker with a THX certified receiver or amp will perform better than a combination that has part of no THX certification?
No... at least not without THX certified interconnects and speaker wire...

Wait a minute, I think I'm onto something there...

dbournival

Do you own a piece of THX certified equipment?
Yes, a Pioneer Elite Receiver and the Monster Cable in-wall speaker wire that the installer used.

How do you like it?
I like the receiver, the wire does it job.

Do you think a THX certified speaker is better than one that isn't?
No, with more expensive products.

Do you think it adds value to a product?
Yes at low price points. At least you know it passes some minimum level of ability. With speaker wire you know it holds a acceptable signal for a certain number of feet vs ????? But THX does not do a very good job at telling the public what test it must pass. You can go to the website and find out but how many people do that?

Do you think it adds resale value to that product?
No.

Would you pay more for a THX certified speaker than one that isn't?
No, but I may consider a lower priced item vs ignoring it.

Do you think that matching a THX certified speaker with a THX certified receiver or amp will perform better than a combination that has part of no THX certification?
No.

amulford

IMHO, THX as a standard is an excellent idea, if it was universally accepted. It isn't, however, so this places it, for me anyway, ito the marketing hype category. In reality, the standards are not that high, and anything that you have to pay a merchandising fee for it's "certification" is suspect in my book. The manufacturer of the "lower cost" lines will barely meet the standards, pay the fee and reap the profits.

Now if this standard was an independant society, such as the AWS, or UL etc., I would be more impressed if a company strove to not only meet but surpass those criteria.

Do you own a piece of THX certified equipment?

Yes, but only some Monster speaker wire, which I plan on changing.

How do you like it?

N/A

Do you think a THX certified speaker is better than one that isn't?

Not necessarily.

Do you think it adds value to a product?

Not personally, but to the average mass market consumer it may.

Do you think it adds resale value to that product?

I would not pay extra for it.

Do you think that matching a THX certified speaker with a THX certified receiver or amp will perform better than a combination that has part of no THX certification?

Not at all, as Frank said earlier, it has nothing to do with the cert., but with the synergy of the equipment.


It's cool for you to ask us, kind of a mini market study. Hope the replies help.

Oh, since you are looking for letters:SDA

wallstreet

The forum members here are probably not a good representative sample of the average Polk customer. The folks here are audio enthusiasts that aren't swayed by gee whiz numbers and certifications. OTOH, the vast majority of folks could care less about ohms and frequency responses when buying speakers. I would think those folks do find comfort in purchasing equipment with THX certification.

madmax

No. Sorry, given the subject I feel no more time than this is appropriate to spend on a reply.
madmax

jmasterj

Hi Al,

I own two Carver TFM-35x power amps they are THX certified.
Doesn't make a bit of difference to me. I brought the Carver's because of the sound, the power, and ability to play all day with out heat related problems. I shop for quality, and value for the dollar THX or not. If I like the speaker I'll buy it

rskarvan

Do you think a THX certified speaker is better than one that isn't?

>>> Can you define for us the sonic characteristics of the speaker that make it THX certifiable? If so, yes, I would buy a speaker that meets higher than normal requirements - thus, earning the THX label. But, I will probably already buy those speakers anyway. In short, the label means nothing. Now, if there is something in the speaker (besides certification buying) that makes that speaker sound BETTER... then, yes, it would be a desirable choice.

jcaut

I have no THX certified components. It means nothing to me---

Well, actually that's not true: It tells me that the manufacturer spent money getting certification from Lucasfilm, that could otherwise have gone into the product or resulted in a lower price. THX hurts value. For that reason, I would never shop for it specifically. As others have mentioned, I wouldn't decide NOT to buy a component that was THX for that reason, but I would view it as more of a negative than a positive.

I don't know much about THX certification as it pertains to speakers. Just what performance criteria would a speaker have to meet in order to be certified?

I'd also agree with wallstreet, that the forum members aren't necessarily good representatives of Polk's customer base.

Jason

PolkThug

Also, look at what Monster has done with the THX cert. In our store, it is clear that the Monster THX line is their LOWEST 'quality' line that we sell.

Regards,
PolkThug

Toxis

Depends on which THX cables you sell. We have a few SKU's of the entry level THX stuff but also have the higher end stuff (above say Video 3 prices) and they're basically the next model down with different connectors and the new "cover" for looks (absolutely no other purpose, quote Monster).

VR3

I think this guy is serious....

I was bored and started taking the survery for a free product thing...

And half the questions are about THX....

This is rediculous...

cdubya

Why now look to certify polk speakers? I think the cost of certification would be better spent on more R&D, but thats just my opinion. Heres a another question; Why were the srt's not thx certified? I am sure they far exceeded the requirements put down by old georgie boy.
Just a thought............;)

And to add to the comment Amulford made regrding three letters, heres three more S-R-T:cool:

VR3

No idea why they want to do that...

but I know of quite a few people here that will be pissed off if Polk starts stamping a bunch of logos on stuff...

eff that...I think we should all send Polk emails!! lol

Bonham

Do you own a piece of THX certified equipment?
I probably do somewhere.


How do you like it?
If I have something I must not have any complaints about it.


Do you think a THX certified speaker is better than one that isn't?
Possibly, but not because it has THX certification.


Do you think it adds value to a product?
Coming from a marketing standpoint? It's very likely considering the state of ignorance most consumers live in, a little. However, when you're talking high end products, less of those customers tend to be subject to 'mob' mentality (i.e. they are at least slightly more intelligent then the typical consumer) and would be less prone to think it's good or bad simply because it has that label. If you're asking if Polk should get their stuff THX certified, I guess that would depend on who you think and who you want your demographic to be.


Do you think it adds resale value to that product?
Again, same as the above answer, but to a lesser degree. I suspect most people buying used equipment aren't as worried about that.


Would you pay more for a THX certified speaker than one that isn't?
Well, I am paying more for audio equipment that doesn't have the certification then some other equipment I've seen that does have it. As soon as I learned that THX simply means a stamp of approval, wasn't an actual sound format, and doesn't necc mean that the piece of equipment is better then one that doesn't have it... it stopped meaning anything to me at all. I wouldn't NOT buy something cause it said THX on it, but I wouldn't buy it BECAUSE it does either.


Do you think that matching a THX certified speaker with a THX certified receiver or amp will perform better than a combination that has part of no THX certification?
I think it's possible and even likely in many cases, but I think it has very little (if anything) to do with the fact that they both are or are not THX certified. It has to do with the features and performance of the equipment itself... and there is equipment out there without a THX cerification that is superior to equipment with it.

Originally posted by Toxis Again, why does everyone think it's stupid to have an extra logo on a speaker? If it increases sales and makes Polk more money, how's this hurting you? [/B]

I think I'm fairly qualified to answer that... At one point in my life I worked for a company who's products I loved and had grown up using. So, I was a very, very long customer of the company before I worked for them. Meaning I knew exactly what a customer thought of certain things and I later learned (working for them) why the company did certain things.

In this case the more informed customer (one who knows a lot about audio stuff, would understand that there are products out there which more then qualify for a potential THX label, but that the company just hasn't bothered with it) is being hurt because they are essentially paying a higher price for a product that is no different other then the (probably slight) increase in cost needed to pay for the indorsement.

Now, from a company standpoint... hell yeah I'd want that on there. There are a lot of ignorant consumers out there, who will be impressed by it, and while it may increase the cost of the product the company will likely sell more products as a result and make more profits. When it comes down to the bottom line that is, after all, why they are in business... to make money.

So, would I like it as a customer? No. Because typical (mass) marketing doesn't work on me. Would I do it if I were the company? Probably.

If I lost 10% of my very informed and opinionated customers and made a 20% gain in less informed customers who bought my product due to a THX label... I did just make more money.

LethalLee

First off i hear that Creative is buying THX. This means they can put THX on their whole lineup. THX standard high pass crossovers at 80hz is for small speakers. That is a no no for my 4 way towers with 12inch woofers. Secondly THX requires subwoofers to have a steep rolloff at 35hz. An example of a good sub which could easily be THX but has a rolloff around 23hz is the CHT15. This sub makes movies better than THX sound. Polk dont get THX. THX isnt much about sq. Morely of
frequency and spl balance. Its not going to make a trumpet sound more like a trumpet unless u use an equalizer which messes up the dolby processing.

If i see the Polk Audio logo
and then THX logo under it
reminds me of my logitech z680's
my 2inch polk speakers that came with my hp computer had better sound just no bass.

audiobliss

Originally posted by Bonham
If I lost 10% of my very informed and opinionated customers and made a 20% gain in less informed customers who bought my product due to a THX label... I did just make more money.

Very true, you would have just made more money, and I'm sure that given the general uninformed nature of the marked that sales would increase.

However, this shift in Polk's average customer from a more informed, quality/performance oriented listener to a less informed, gadgets/impress the friends/spend more money punks. This would hurt Polk's image as a manufacturer of audio equipment. As Polk's average customer changes, so would their image and their position in the audio manufacturers heirarchy.

Such a change in Polk would affect a potential customer like myself. I currently own nothing with the Polk name on it. I came to this forum when I first got interested in audio to find out more about what it was I wanted and how I could best acheive that. Ever since, I've been extremely impressed with the amount of knowledge that Polk customers have. Also, I've been extremely impressed with the Polk company as I've heard how cooperative and generous the customer service is and also how rapidly and helpfully moderators respond on this forum.

Right now my view of Polk is that they have some entry-level speakers, but they also have some really, really, really good speakers that I may one day be seriously interested in buying.

If Polk opts to put that stupid label on their gear, I foresee their average customer changing, the general persona of the company changing, and eventually the company/gear changing more toward entry-level, cheap, 'ooh, that's cool' equipment.

I don't know where Polk is ttrying to head in the market place, but if they want to start putting the THX label on it and taking advantage of the mass market's ignorance, I foresee that I won't ever buy anything Polk.

I hope that doesn't happen.

VR3

wooooooooo

NEVERMIND...lost my mind there for a second

Frank Z

Gee, everyone here has a Crystal Ball. Come on folks, I think you're reading way too much into the original questions. Speculation as to what a possible THX Certified Polk speaker may or may not sound like is a bit ridiculous at this point.

THX Certification may mean a lot to Joe6pack, and if it helps Polk move more speakers, so be it. Obviously there will always be the Polk die-hards that will listen to a new speaker before passing judgement. Keep an open mind and don't assume that a change in the line up is a change for the worse. A blanket statement about not buying a speaker because it has a THX badge is about as intelligent as not buying a piece of gear or speakers just because it does not have a THX badge.

Trust your ears, not the certification or lack thereof.

George Grand

I use an APT "Holman" preamp in my half-****, 2 channel HT rig. I would like to ask Tom Holman if the performance of this preamp is compromised because it doesn't have his new seal of approval on it. I'm very happy with the sound it doesn't make.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

LethalLee

If they can THX it without raising the price it wont matter much to me. But people with the same product wont have the THX logo as the new customers get to brag on it. I personnally would complain on that. If polk gets THX it would only be to raise their popularity and to compete in the same league of the rest of THX products like how Klipsch and Yamaha do it.

It can also have a bad view on the public. They may think polk finally exceeded the standards of THX by now and are now making good speakers. LOL im just pondering.

VR3

If Polk thinks they need to stamp THX on their speakers to sell them

Then they seriously need to hit the R&D

Bonham

Originally posted by audiobliss Very true, you would have just made more money, and I'm sure that given the general uninformed nature of the marked that sales would increase.

However, this shift in Polk's average customer from a more informed, quality/performance oriented listener to a less informed, gadgets/impress the friends/spend more money punks. This would hurt Polk's image as a manufacturer of audio equipment. As Polk's average customer changes, so would their image and their position in the audio manufacturers heirarchy.

Exactly my round about point... if they are looking to bow to 'peer pressure' and pay for the certification even though it's just a stamp of approval (i.e. their equipment already qualifies or qualification wouldn't imply improvement in their equipment) and possibly have to raise prices as a result... they need to consider who their customer base is, who they WANT their customer base to be, what that customer base's reaction would be, and how many new customers they would gain and/or lose as a result. Probably why the question is being asked here.

The question many companies have to ask themselves is - would they like a smaller, extremely happy customer base... or a large, possibly uninformed, possibly cranky customer base? Meaning: Better reputation, less profit... or so-so reputation and more profit? It's very rare to find a company where this isn't the bottom line - whatever the original motivation they are in business to make money after all. It's also rare to find a company that chooses the first option. While I might not like it and may no longer buy their products, I don't know if I really blame them. If I was already enjoying a very successful profit, I wouldn't do it... but sometimes there are other factors (people) to consider, like stockholders.

It's amazingly rare to find a company that consistantly thinks long term. In all my life I have only worked for one company that did... and they were extremely successful for what they were. Best place I've ever worked in terms of liking my job, fellow employees, and most my superiors, and benefits were simply awesome. You didn't make as much as you would elsewhere (because this is a company the employes WANTED to work for).. Every other place I've worked they had very short-sighted goals and plans. As a matter of fact, I've come to the conclusion that extremely successful companies don't have genius' working for them, they just don't have bad business people running them.

Heh... I imply in my last post I would and say I wouldn't here. I guess the bottom line would be: Would it increase costs? Would it actually improve the real quality of my product (not a purely perceived value - but a tangible one)? Am I thinking short term profit, or long term reputation? Do I need to make more money to stay in business? Some of these questions they are asking us, some they are asking themselves.

Bottom line for me would be... do I NEED to make more money? If I already had a successful business and a damn good product, I wouldn't. Not only would it be a meaningless stamp of approval (assuming the product already met the required specs) but it would imply there was something inferior about the product before. And lastly, having delt with customers pretty much my entire career... I'd rather deal with less, more intelligent customers then a bunch of ignorant customers who decide how to spend their money on labels.

cfrizz

(Do you own a piece of THX certified equipment ?) Yes my Parasound amp is.

(How do you like it?) I love it for the power it provides to my Polks.

(Do you think a THX certified speaker is better than one that isn't?) No I do not. THX is just a label.

(Do you think it adds value to a product?) Not in my opinion.

(Do you think it adds resale value to that product?) Maybe for some, but not for me

(Would you pay more for a THX certified speaker than one that isn't?) No.

(Do you think that matching a THX certified speaker with a THX certified receiver or amp will perform better than a combination that has part of no THX certification?)

I seriously doubt it. I would compare 2 different systems one certified & one not certified. That is the only way to know for sure. If I could clearly hear a big difference than I might consider it depending on the cost. If the cost is more than what I consider it to be worth, than no I would not buy THX certified.

Cathy

steveinaz

THX is a moot point. If you already own good quality equipment, it meets THX specs by default (sans the surround specs). It's marketing hype. My Parasound HCA-1500A is marked "THX" but wasn't bought because of it. I don't seek out THX, but if its on the equipment, I don't care either way.