You know what's fun?

Jstas
Jstas Posts: 14,804
edited September 2004 in Car Audio & Electronics
Watching and listening to the "old" guys talk about power ratings of amplifiers in thier home audio stuff and bragging about it. Then in the same post, sentence or conversation say something about showing the local kid with the thumping car stereo what REAL bass is like.

Then they talk actual power ratings and it's something like 200 watts or 300 watts and it supposedly hits really hard.

Then I whip out the specs on a Hifonics Colossus or a TruTech Sledgehammer and ask them to try and tell me 300 watts is alot of power!

I can almost hear the jaws hitting the floor!

Not to say that anyone is a lesser person or try to be insulting. It's just amazing and how deep people can get engrossed in stereotypes and misconceptions. They totally ignore car audio until someone knowledgable shows them what is really out there then they don't know what to say. Usually they blurt out something insulting though.
Expert Moron Extraordinaire

You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited September 2004
    lol
    next year when i have my brahmas hooked up to a usa-3000 we can show em what real bass is like:D
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • wlrandall
    wlrandall Posts: 440
    edited September 2004
    Nahhhh...not this one. One of my future projects is a sub-Adire Tumult in a cylinder with about 1400-1500 watts driving it. If that don't "hit" I don't know what will. Who needs SVS??
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited September 2004
    OT, but i get really mad at ppl who say *hey will this *enter certain brand and model number here* amp power *insert sub here* like we are supposed to know what every sub and amp on the market spec's are...
    ive spoken my mind more than once about this on other forums...its not as bad on here because its polk specific...but yea
    im done
    sorry
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited September 2004
    Yeah, HT guys have it made. They have no road noise to contend with nor do they have any reflective surfaces to get in the way. Plus they can easily sit right in the middle of the soundstage for perfect imaging.

    Us CA guys have to put a lot of thought and ingenuity into our systems. You cant just stick some speakers and a 50x2 amp in and expect great sound.

    Thats why we rule!! :D

    However, I would like a few more "old" people over here. Its tough being the only 32 year old in a sea of 18-20 somethings.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited September 2004
    mac--dont set yourself apart...
    i mean, for an old guy--youre pretty cool;)
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • Joelsbass
    Joelsbass Posts: 637
    edited September 2004
    yeah... that and you give us great fodder for our sigs ;)
    MacLeod: I guess youre lucky Polk has such lax hiring standards.

    Josh: Damn skippy!
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,529
    edited September 2004
    There are LOTS of reflective surfaces in a house :confused:

    No one has perfect placement...

    Side walls/wood floors/ cathedral(sp) ceilings are ALL reflective surfaces, counting picture frames, TVs, etc etc

    And my amp is 125x2 thank you very much...;)

    SVS rocks BTW too...

    and I'm 15....
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited September 2004
    let's not show the HT people these, though, they'll get way too much ammo:
    clipping01.jpg
    clipping02.jpg
    (they're links, to see what i'm talking about, you have to download the pix)

    both are snippets of 50 cent songs; the first one is just terrible, music isn't supposed to go in a straight line like that... and the second one is bad enough as is (major clipping), but if you look at the peaks of the waves, they're hooked... i'm thinking that's digital processing that backs down a clipped wave so it doesn't stay flat for too long, which means this was mixed at really bad clipping... just thought i should share how bad 50's sound team is...
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
    And my amp is 125x2 thank you very much...;)
    yeah...the amp for my 4x6s does 175x2@2ohm rms
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • Joelsbass
    Joelsbass Posts: 637
    edited September 2004
    yeah, when i'm done i'll have a 75x4 and a 150x2 for my fronts, both tube amps at that. and i'll have a 2000x1 for my subs :p
    MacLeod: I guess youre lucky Polk has such lax hiring standards.

    Josh: Damn skippy!
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  • wlrandall
    wlrandall Posts: 440
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by MacLeod
    Yeah, HT guys have it made. They have no road noise to contend with nor do they have any reflective surfaces to get in the way. Plus they can easily sit right in the middle of the soundstage for perfect imaging.

    Wrong...drywall sucks, as does hard surfaced furniture. So does the neighbor nextdoor running his mower. And the **** pipe imports cruising down the street during quiet scenes. Add to that the kids wanting to talk...plus, my wife always sits in the center during movies (that's my fault, I let her but it's cool because she likes it). Pffft....
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by wlrandall
    Wrong...drywall sucks, as does hard surfaced furniture. So does the neighbor nextdoor running his mower. And the **** pipe imports cruising down the street during quiet scenes. Add to that the kids wanting to talk...plus, my wife always sits in the center during movies (that's my fault, I let her but it's cool because she likes it). Pffft....
    compare to being surrounded by glass and hard plastic, being IN the **** tube (or surrounded by them), going 70 so the wind noise is like your head next to the mower, and 70% closer to the left than the right channel... plus passengers, engine noise, and idiots on the road to ruin your musical nirvana
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited September 2004
    yeah...HT guys need not complain to car audio guys about bad unfavorable surroundings...weve got you beat hands down
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • wlrandall
    wlrandall Posts: 440
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by exalted512
    yeah...HT guys need not complain to car audio guys about bad unfavorable surroundings...weve got you beat hands down
    -Cody

    Hahaha...yeah, right. Does anyone realize what it costs to Dynamat a house??? Interior walls buzz and rattle just like car doors and windows do!

    Besides, last time I had a decent system in a car I would just turn it up loud enough to drown everything out...
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by wlrandall
    Hahaha...yeah, right. Does anyone realize what it costs to Dynamat a house??? Interior walls buzz and rattle just like car doors and windows do!

    Besides, last time I had a decent system in a car I would just turn it up loud enough to drown everything out...
    maybe a couple hundred more than a properly sound deadened car
    and besides you can do peel n seal in a house...the sound deadening doesnt have to be that great
    really--you dont have to worry about cancellation nearly as much as you do a car
    you have a HUGE amount of noises coming from a car
    A LOT more than a house
    you have to have a lot more power in a car
    you cant choose as much where you can put speakers in a car
    your soundstage is naturally going to be the drivers right because youre not in the center of the vehicle
    you have limited space to put larger speakers and amps
    much more chances of getting interference into your cables
    whether you absolutely hate car audio and love home theater(not saying that you hate anything), its very easy to see which one has much more restrictions than the other
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • Grimster74
    Grimster74 Posts: 2,570
    edited September 2004
    I have you know MacLeod your not one of the only "old" people on this forum, I'll be 31 in February.:D
    Money Talks, Mine says Goodbye Rob!!!!
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  • wlrandall
    wlrandall Posts: 440
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by exalted512
    maybe a couple hundred more than a properly sound deadened car

    I'd say thousands more-look at the surface area.

    and besides you can do peel n seal in a house...the sound deadening doesnt have to be that great

    I think it should be better than you think.

    really--you dont have to worry about cancellation nearly as much as you do a car
    you have a HUGE amount of noises coming from a car
    A LOT more than a house

    Yep

    you have to have a lot more power in a car

    I don't think so. Watts are watts. What kills you guy is the low voltage supply. We can use lampcord whereas CA requires welding cables.

    you cant choose as much where you can put speakers in a car

    Yep.

    your soundstage is naturally going to be the drivers right because youre not in the center of the vehicle

    Yep.

    you have limited space to put larger speakers and amps

    Really? Where in the door are you going to shove that tower??

    much more chances of getting interference into your cables

    Why is that? Ignition system? On the other hand, ever dealt with the power in a really old house or near an industrial park? Nasty!

    whether you absolutely hate car audio and love home theater(not saying that you hate anything), its very easy to see which one has much more restrictions than the other

    Truth is, I love audio-home, car and pro and always have my nose in it. Can't get enough!

    -Cody
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  • wlrandall
    wlrandall Posts: 440
    edited September 2004
    Made a freakin' mess of ^that^ post, didn't I??
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited September 2004
    u sure did:D
    watts are watts, but you need more in a car plain and simple
    dual 300 wrms subs are the 'norm' in car audio
    not many people have 600 watts worth of subs alone in a room
    you guys get the advantage of cabin gain..lucky ****;)
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • Mjr7531
    Mjr7531 Posts: 856
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by MacLeod
    Us CA guys have to put a lot of thought and ingenuity into our systems. You cant just stick some speakers and a 50x2 amp in and expect great sound.
    I love the irony of it all

    Home Theater vs. Car Audio wars!
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  • wlrandall
    wlrandall Posts: 440
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by exalted512
    dual 300 wrms subs are the 'norm' in car audio
    not many people have 600 watts worth of subs alone in a room

    Close to it, actually. Anyone with one of the better SVS models is running 525. For those that are insane their B4 runs off an external 2500W Crown (or equivalent).

    And yes, being able to corner load is nice :D
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,529
    edited September 2004
    There are plenty of subwoofers for home that have 600 watts or more...

    And regarding amps...

    If we don't need the power, how come they make 1,000 watt mono blocks for home? ;)

    http://www.musicalfidelity.com/mf/en/Products/kW/kWPowerAmp

    1,000 watts - 8 ohms, 200 amps of current!

    Thats a beast, Mcintosh and other brands have similar amps just like that. ;)

    http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb2_isd.htm 600 watt amp
    http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb2_plus.htm 900 watt amp
    http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb2_ultra.htm 1,000 watt amp
    http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_b4_plus.htm 1,000-2,500
    http://www.sunfire.com/TrueSubwooferEQSigPR.htm - 2,700 watt amp
    http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/product.aspx?ID=3&sid=815a183s - 1250x2
    http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/specs/DigitalDrive.html - EVERYONE of those subs have 1,000+ watt amps in em

    List goes on...

    Thats only 2 or 3 companies
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by Grimster74
    I have you know MacLeod your not one of the only "old" people on this forum, I'll be 31 in February.:D

    Hell yeah! Thank Gawd Im not the only teeny bopper on here!

    Ill concede HT isnt simple and you have to have some knowledge to set up a decent system, however the challenges in CA are much more plentiful. Drywall aint got nothing on a windshield 6" away from a screaming tweeter with you a mere 18" away!

    You buy some home speakers and set them down and hook them up and youre done. Car speakers have to be mounted, baffles made, sound damping applied, weatherproofing considered and so on. Then you have to figure out wherer to best mount them so you have a decent stage since you can sit on your couch right in the middle of them and listen.

    I have 60+ watts going to each tweeter, 60+ to each mid and 350+ to my sub and thats considered a small to moderate amount!!!

    And did I read someone saying "in my car I just turned up the music to overcome road noise"? Sure, you can do that but if your system isnt set up right and with quality gear, all youre going to be listening to is the buzz of distortion and the flutter of overexerted mids!
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • Grimster74
    Grimster74 Posts: 2,570
    edited September 2004
    I'll post from experience with both on the whole H/T vs. Car Audio thing going on. Both are a royal pain in the **** and expensive as hell. Lets not forget how much time you spend perfecting both also. Need I say more.:D
    Money Talks, Mine says Goodbye Rob!!!!
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by Grimster74
    I'll post from experience with both on the whole H/T vs. Car Audio thing going on. Both are a royal pain in the **** and expensive as hell. Lets not forget how much time you spend perfecting both also. Need I say more.:D
    can i get an amen!
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by neomagus00
    can i get an amen!
    no;)
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • LittleCar_w/12s
    LittleCar_w/12s Posts: 568
    edited September 2004
    The two biggest things in car audio that make it worse are:
    1 - Low voltage supply: You are certainly right about the lamp-cord vs. welding cables...
    2 - Bad soundstage: Caused from the shape of the 'room' (interior) as well as being unable to pick and choose where to place drivers and power equipment.

    However in short this translates much more into price vs. trouble.. While I agree that it is more trouble to mount a great soundstage in a car, does anyone think about a room that say, the left wall feeds directly into another room? no door there... just open... It is extremely hard to overcome that difference in reflection... Imagine competing in a SQ comp with your passenger's door open...
    Yes car audio CAN be harder than HT, but only if we are talking about ideal HT environments. The biggest problem in C/A is price-point caused by a low-voltage supply.

    -Jerry
    ___________________________
    Total cost of materials: Going up...
    Time spent: Countless Hours...
    Cranking the system, having it quiet outside the car, and sound that takes the rear-view off inside: PRICELESS

    For some things in life, you pay others to do it... For a masterpeice, do it yourself.
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited September 2004
    yeah, we are kinda asssuming that every ht person has an ideal theatre room.. i can vouch for the falsity of that one, though, my living room has a two story wall on one side and nothing on the other for like 60 feet.... take that for reflections...
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,529
    edited September 2004
    My room is 10.5x10.5x8!

    I have shoved a SVS and 4 good sized towers in my small lil room!

    THAT is reflections ;)

    But I do hit down to 15hz! :D
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited September 2004
    yeah...im in a dorm room...
    i have my surround sound speakers just placed everywhere...when i want to watch a movie i put them at the "ideal" places
    ideal being the best possible places...which still suck ****
    my front speakers arent even...ones on my stereo...the other is 14" above it on a cabinet...talk about horrible sound stage...that plus the fact in 4 ft away from the tv...
    lol
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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