Calibration

okiepolkie
okiepolkie Posts: 2,258
edited October 2004 in Speakers
What calibration DVD would be best to calibrate video and audio? I know the Avia test disk is great. Is the Sound and Vision disk(I believe it is even produced by Ovation like Avia) as good, or do I need to spend the extra to get the Avia? I already have the Radio Shack sound level meter from being a science teacher(great for seeing how loud students can be when you add more and more talking.)
Tschüss
Zach
Post edited by okiepolkie on
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  • Meeks32
    Meeks32 Posts: 330
    edited September 2004
    I have the design essentials dvd that I got on ebay for $13 new. I havent tried the other disks but design essentials got the highest review out off all of the disks in a magazine I read. You can set your levels with a dvd with "thx optimized" setup, like star wars, finding nemo & a few others.
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  • Toxis
    Toxis Posts: 5,116
    edited September 2004
    Digital Video Essentials.
    Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.

    Home Setup: Sony VPL-VW85 Projo, 92" Stewart Firehawk, Pioneer Elite SC-65, PS3, RTi12 fronts, CSi5, FXi6 rears, RTi6 surround backs, RTi4 height, MFW-15 Subwoofer.

    Car Setup: OEM Radio, RF 360.2v2, Polk SR6500 quad amped off 4 Xtant 1.1 100w mono amps, Xtant 6.1 to run an eD 13av.2, all Stinger wiring and Raammat deadener.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited September 2004
    Maybe revisions are out now, but it seems most every calibration disk except the Avia has at least one issue/ shortcoming that had to be worked around...

    At any rate here's a calibration reference threads from "Tour's Vault" that you may find useful...

    Speaker System Calibration See Doc Spec's post about mid-way down the page...

    And don't forget that there are correction factors you need to apply to your SPL meter readings for low frequencies.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • Meeks32
    Meeks32 Posts: 330
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by Toxis
    Digital Video Essentials.

    Yea thats it, thought it didnt sound right when I was typing it :)
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  • kberg
    kberg Posts: 974
    edited September 2004
    I have the S&V disk and I think it does the job just fine.
    Mains: polkaudio RTi70's (bi-wired)
    Center: polkaudio CSi40 (bi-wired)
    Surrounds: polkaudio FXi30's
    Rear Center: polkaudio CSi30
    Sub: SVS 20-39 PC+
    Receiver: ONKYO TX-SR600
    Display: JVC HD-56G786
    DVD Player: SONY DVP-CX985V
    DVD Player: OPPO DV-981HD 1080p High Definition Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI
    Remote: Logitech Harmony H688
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  • okiepolkie
    okiepolkie Posts: 2,258
    edited September 2004
    I might try the Avia, just because I know I can find a lot of help if I don't understand something fully. The link to the other thread helped me understand a little more too. Thanks.

    Now how much should I pay for the DVD? I don't want to pay the $50 from Crutchfield or Ovation.
    Tschüss
    Zach
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited September 2004
    Paid around $30 for mine as I recall. Fell out of one of those internet price comparison search engines... forget which one though.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2004
    DVE has a 10 dB subwoofer calibration encoding error. Don't use it, or compensate for the error.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • SniperREX
    SniperREX Posts: 930
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    DVE has a 10 dB subwoofer calibration encoding error. Don't use it, or compensate for the error.

    I have DVE.

    What do you mean exactly? How can I compensate the error?


    TVs: Samsung S95B 65" QD-OLED (den) and LG C2 42" OLED (office)
    Receiver: Denon AVR-X3700H (den) and Denon AVR-X2300W (den)
    SACD and DVD-A player: Oppo BDP-83
    Mains: Polk RTi8 (den) and Dali Ikon 8 (office)
    Center: Polk CSi5 (den) and Polk CSi3 (office)
    Surrounds: Polk FXi5 (den) and Velodyne surrounds (office)
    Sub: SVS PB-2000 (den) and PCi 16-46 (office)
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  • Toxis
    Toxis Posts: 5,116
    edited September 2004
    I bought my DVE for $15 at my work... I'm sure you should be able to pick one up for a similar price around you.
    Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.

    Home Setup: Sony VPL-VW85 Projo, 92" Stewart Firehawk, Pioneer Elite SC-65, PS3, RTi12 fronts, CSi5, FXi6 rears, RTi6 surround backs, RTi4 height, MFW-15 Subwoofer.

    Car Setup: OEM Radio, RF 360.2v2, Polk SR6500 quad amped off 4 Xtant 1.1 100w mono amps, Xtant 6.1 to run an eD 13av.2, all Stinger wiring and Raammat deadener.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited September 2004
    op,
    Go here . Avia for just over $36 shipped...

    Almost forgot about Deep Discount DVD...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • tryrrthg
    tryrrthg Posts: 1,896
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by SniperREX
    I have DVE.

    What do you mean exactly? How can I compensate the error?
    I'm pretty sure you have to bump your sub reading up 10db's higher than what DVE has you calibrating at.
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited September 2004
    Edited to correct erroneous brain cells and avoid confusion... at least on the part of others...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • tryrrthg
    tryrrthg Posts: 1,896
    edited September 2004
    Tour I think you have it backwards. if you calibrate to say 75 db's with DVE your sub will be about 10db's too LOW. If you calibrate all speakers to 75 db's you need to calibrate your sub to around 85 db's.

    Here is a quote from Doc's thread at HT forum.
    So by your test, you would have to calibrate the sub to 88dB on DVE.
    Correct.
    And realize that 85/82 on Avia is running the sub FLAT at best (with the C-weighted correction factor included), or maybe even a little cool.


    Link to Doc's Thread
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited September 2004
    tryrrthg,

    Started to disagree again, but thought it through...
    If you believe that the DVE sub cal is 75db, but it's really 88 (or so), then you would end up calibrating to 62 db (or so) relative to the other speakers.

    Yup, too cool... Also, too confusing... Buy the Avia... :D

    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • SniperREX
    SniperREX Posts: 930
    edited September 2004
    Thx :)

    Too late for AVIA, already shelled out $25 for DVE :o .

    Right now I have my receiver HK 7200 at -5 for the sub and the noise sound was already pretty strong. I'm gonna shake the house with the new setting :D .


    TVs: Samsung S95B 65" QD-OLED (den) and LG C2 42" OLED (office)
    Receiver: Denon AVR-X3700H (den) and Denon AVR-X2300W (den)
    SACD and DVD-A player: Oppo BDP-83
    Mains: Polk RTi8 (den) and Dali Ikon 8 (office)
    Center: Polk CSi5 (den) and Polk CSi3 (office)
    Surrounds: Polk FXi5 (den) and Velodyne surrounds (office)
    Sub: SVS PB-2000 (den) and PCi 16-46 (office)
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2004
    The DVE subwoofer calibration tone is 10 dB too hot. It relies on the LFE channel vice redirected bass, and the encoders failed to compensate for the fact that all pre/pros automatically boost the LFE channel 10 dB.

    So when your subwoofer level is correct, DVE will show it being 10 dB too high.

    In addition, the DVE subwoofer signal is extremely broadband (it has strong content from 15-100 Hz). If you have a subwoofer that digs really deep, and you have room gain down low, the calibration error is exacerbated. In this case, DVE ends up being about 13-15 dB too hot when you factor in deep extension and room gain.

    This compared to Avia which relies on redirected bass (as opposed to the LFE channel with DVE) and has a sharply-truncated, narrow-bandwidth sub tone that only extends from 40-80 Hz, thus avoiding room gain down deep.

    So if you insist on calibrating with DVE, use 75 dB for the main channels, and anywhere from 85-90 dB on the subwoofer tone, depending on your subwoofer's deep extension capabilities and whether or not you have room gain.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • Lsi9
    Lsi9 Posts: 616
    edited September 2004
    Calibration Dvds never get the sound the way I like...I rely on my ear no matter how inaccurate someone might say that is...but calibrating my system wont change my hearing...

    I need my surrounds higher and my sub a little below normal...this is the sound for me... a calibration dvd will just tell me to adjust otherwise...am i wrong here?

    Audio Physic Scorpio II
    Pathos Logos
    MIT Shotgun S3
    Bada HD-22 CDP
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by Lsi9
    ...this is the sound for me...
    Doesn't sound like it to me.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • SniperREX
    SniperREX Posts: 930
    edited September 2004
    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    The DVE subwoofer calibration tone is 10 dB too hot. It relies on the LFE channel vice redirected bass, and the encoders failed to compensate for the fact that all pre/pros automatically boost the LFE channel 10 dB.

    So when your subwoofer level is correct, DVE will show it being 10 dB too high.

    In addition, the DVE subwoofer signal is extremely broadband (it has strong content from 15-100 Hz). If you have a subwoofer that digs really deep, and you have room gain down low, the calibration error is exacerbated. In this case, DVE ends up being about 13-15 dB too hot when you factor in deep extension and room gain.

    This compared to Avia which relies on redirected bass (as opposed to the LFE channel with DVE) and has a sharply-truncated, narrow-bandwidth sub tone that only extends from 40-80 Hz, thus avoiding room gain down deep.

    So if you insist on calibrating with DVE, use 75 dB for the main channels, and anywhere from 85-90 dB on the subwoofer tone, depending on your subwoofer's deep extension capabilities and whether or not you have room gain.

    Doc

    Maybe my DVE is different from yours, because it says 40-80hz.

    My mains are +8 and +7 and the sub is -3, so the sub is -10 . It should be correct, isn't it?


    TVs: Samsung S95B 65" QD-OLED (den) and LG C2 42" OLED (office)
    Receiver: Denon AVR-X3700H (den) and Denon AVR-X2300W (den)
    SACD and DVD-A player: Oppo BDP-83
    Mains: Polk RTi8 (den) and Dali Ikon 8 (office)
    Center: Polk CSi5 (den) and Polk CSi3 (office)
    Surrounds: Polk FXi5 (den) and Velodyne surrounds (office)
    Sub: SVS PB-2000 (den) and PCi 16-46 (office)
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2004
    Maybe my DVE is different from yours, because it says 40-80hz.

    What the DVD says and what is actually encoded on the disc are two different things. Trust me - we digitally stripped the LFE channel off and analyzed it. It goes from 15 to over 100.
    My mains are +8 and +7 and the sub is -3, so the sub is -10 . It should be correct, isn't it?

    The relative pre/pro levels of your speaker and subwoofer channels are of little value. If you told me what your SPL values are for calibration, then I could tell you if you are close. Oh, and add the subwoofer brand/model too.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • SniperREX
    SniperREX Posts: 930
    edited September 2004
    Radioshack digital meters, C weight and slow.

    75db for all speakers except the sub at about 77db right now, before it was at 75db at -5 on the pre/pro.

    Polk 505, not corner loaded.


    TVs: Samsung S95B 65" QD-OLED (den) and LG C2 42" OLED (office)
    Receiver: Denon AVR-X3700H (den) and Denon AVR-X2300W (den)
    SACD and DVD-A player: Oppo BDP-83
    Mains: Polk RTi8 (den) and Dali Ikon 8 (office)
    Center: Polk CSi5 (den) and Polk CSi3 (office)
    Surrounds: Polk FXi5 (den) and Velodyne surrounds (office)
    Sub: SVS PB-2000 (den) and PCi 16-46 (office)
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2004
    Your subwoofer is probably significantly undercalibrated at 77 dB with DVE (unless your version has been fixed). Try your AVR test tones and see where the sub comes up on those in relation to the other speakers.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • SniperREX
    SniperREX Posts: 930
    edited September 2004
    Unfortunately my AVR doesn't have a sub test tone :( .


    TVs: Samsung S95B 65" QD-OLED (den) and LG C2 42" OLED (office)
    Receiver: Denon AVR-X3700H (den) and Denon AVR-X2300W (den)
    SACD and DVD-A player: Oppo BDP-83
    Mains: Polk RTi8 (den) and Dali Ikon 8 (office)
    Center: Polk CSi5 (den) and Polk CSi3 (office)
    Surrounds: Polk FXi5 (den) and Velodyne surrounds (office)
    Sub: SVS PB-2000 (den) and PCi 16-46 (office)
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2004
    Then borrow Avia from a member.....

    Does your subwoofer feel a bit weak, or does it blend well? You can try it at 75 dB speaks and 83-85 dB sub and see what happens. Easy enough to go back if it seems too loud.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • SniperREX
    SniperREX Posts: 930
    edited September 2004
    I think it's ok, though this is my first sub so I'm not really sure about it.
    I'll try that.


    TVs: Samsung S95B 65" QD-OLED (den) and LG C2 42" OLED (office)
    Receiver: Denon AVR-X3700H (den) and Denon AVR-X2300W (den)
    SACD and DVD-A player: Oppo BDP-83
    Mains: Polk RTi8 (den) and Dali Ikon 8 (office)
    Center: Polk CSi5 (den) and Polk CSi3 (office)
    Surrounds: Polk FXi5 (den) and Velodyne surrounds (office)
    Sub: SVS PB-2000 (den) and PCi 16-46 (office)
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  • okiepolkie
    okiepolkie Posts: 2,258
    edited October 2004
    I found the Avia test DVD on ebay for $33(shipping included).

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...mMakeTrack=true

    My only question before I buy it is whether the DVD is television ratio specific. I've asked a couple of people, but I have not found a definitive answer yet, so I thought I would ask everyone. I haven't emailed the seller yet to find out.

    A little ways down the page it says the following:

    "Full Screen (Standard) - 1.33:1
    - DVD Encoding: All Regions"


    The one I see on Ovation's website doesn't specify whether it is for 4:3 or 16:9. I always asumed it was good for both formats.

    My television is 4:3, but most of the other people that I will be calibrating for have 16:9 TV's.
    Tschüss
    Zach
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