Monster Amplifier vs Outlaw

malikarshad

Has anybody done a comparision between Outlaw 770, 755 or M200 amps and the Monster 2 channel or 3 channel amp.
Is was at a local store and audition them and sounded great to me but the price tag was huge $3k for channel. The sales guys told me that each channel has its own power supply.
Any opinions?
I'm more interested in Outlaw 770 its 200 X 7 and Monster is 250 watts and sales guys told me that they have pushed them till 700 watts.

gregure

I've not researched Monster amps as I've never considered getting them. I'm saving up for the Outlaw 770, and I've seen numerous excellent reviews for the Outlaw equipment. The standard verdict is that Outlaw is the best for the money. Haven't come across too many reviews of Monster amps in my travels, good or bad. Check out audioreview.com and see what you can find. Based on what I've seen, I'd go w/ Outlaw. Is it really worth the xtra money to go for the Monster when the Outlaws have a solid reputation?

fireshoes

Here is a great review posted on the forum Monster versus Adcom

dorokusai

The MC offering is robust and spec's out nicely in the limited spec's that were public previously. It's a sure bet that it isn't going to be poor in performance based on construction and components alone.

However, they have a couple years to climb and be respected in this category as a whole. There are MANY offerings in the bracket, that MC simply isn't a factor to most people shopping in there IMO. It's a departure for them which I hope is succesful for Lee and his crew.

If the marketing machine kicks in, and the prices drop, they could be a sleeper.

The 700 watts is dynamic transient, nothing out of the ordinary per se for a robust amplifier at this level, it simply has meters to tell you....love the comment however

The review from Jrausch and FrankZ holds far more weight than any saleperson. I can't argue with an excellent review from two knowledgeable members. That alone may guide you in a decision.

jrausch

malikarshad:

Viewing your current setup I would highly recommend using an adcom or outlaw multi-channel amp. As much as I love my Monster Amp I don't think your system would utilize the more expensive amplification. Only buy components that are on par with each other or you will allways be upgrading. Outlaw makes some dam fine amps that will help you maximize your investment with your Polks. Unless you plan on running tower Lsi's and upgrading to an expensive Pre/Pro in the near future, save your money. You don't need the overkill, Just enough power to put the Rti's in a choke hold and smack em around a bit, show em who's boss. You know the routine. Save the extra cash and get your self a High def.

Enjoy,
Jerry

malikarshad

Thanks guys for your input. I agree, with my current setup outlaw is my best bet. And I ordered the Outlaw 770 and its on its way.
The review really helped me a lot in understanding the Monster Amps and I agree with right kind of speakers they are awesome.
I heard the demo in Ultimate Electronics on KEF speakers and they sounded impressive with the Monster AMP.
I don't jusfiy the price tag of $3k amp for my setup even though i'll be upgrading to LSi series next year. I already have the M200 and love them and that's the reason I'm upgrading to 770. No doubts about outlaw products. They are great for there price range.
Other question is I'll be using Denon Avr 3803 as a preamp with outlaw 770. How does Outlaw 950 preamp compare sonically to Denon 3803.
Does it makes sense for me to upgrade my pre/pro at this point?

O'Shag

The questions I would consider asking myself are these;

1. How long have Monster been in the business of building amps? 2. Do they build their amps here in the US, or are they built offshore in the Orient for low cost using low cost parts, and then branded with the Monster label?
3. Are there reviews to support performance claims either by periodicals or other audio enthusiasts?

Monster has primarily in the business of building cables. Over the past few years they have since moved into the power conditioning business. They are not the best in any of these categories.

Don't listen to sale guys from the major chains that are incented to sell monster, and most of whom don't have a real clue what they're talking about.

As far as amps, I wouldn't consider the Monster range at all. There are just so many better amps out there in the same price range, Outlaw included.

malikarshad

Outlaw amps wins hands down in the price/performance ratio compared to Monster. I would not consider Monster amps at all in that price range.

Guys, I need your opinions regarding the pre/pro Denon 3803 vs Outlaw 950.
How do they compare?
Is worth upgrading to Outlaw 950?

O'Shag

Hi Malik

I think Denon make a very good product and the 3803 is an excellent receiver. In terms of bang for the buck, there are relatively few products out there that offer the same level of functionality and quality at the price.

the important thing to remember however is that the Denon, as good as it is, cannot offer the same level of performance in the preamp section. There is just not enough space to accomodate the high-quality circuitry that you wil find in a good preamp.

The Outlaw amp, as I understand it is very good given its price range, and most likely its much more capable than the smaller internal amp section for driving the front channels in the Denon. Inevitably the pre and amp sections of the Denon will have to compromise because of space and cost considerations. However the Denon is absolutely excellent in terms of DSP multichannel processing power and I believe it even has the new THX Ultra 2 and prologic 2X processing modes for music and movies, which are both superb. Which brings me to your question regarding the Outlaw 950.

I would catagorize the 950 more as a processor than a dedicated preamp. You really would be duplicating your efforts, and in truth the Denon is probably a far better processor than the 950 anyway. The Outlaws of this world just cannot compete in a similar price level with Denon or Yamaha et al for the number and quality of DSP/DAC features. If you really want to improve the performance of your Denon, you might consider a dedicated preamp. It doesn't offer anything else other than a preamp section (no tuner, or other possible signal degrading features whcih you don't need anyway). But although it doesn't offer anything else, the preamp section will be much better than the Denon's or the Outlaw 950's. The immediate benefit you should realize is that the system (Denon - External Preamp - Outlaw amp) will have much improved imaging and depth of soundstage, with the sound being presented in a more realistic 3d plain. Details will be better resolved, and the sound will be less dry, more full bodied, and more musically involving (although the Denon is fairly musical as Receivers go).

In the above scenario, the Denon acts primarily as a soundfield processor with excellent DSPs and internal DACs for multi-channel music and movies. The internal amplification will only be used for the center channel , surround channels, and sub(s) (it may be possible to re-route the unused front channels to power the surrounds or sub; check with Denon Tech Support). The preamp section and amplifier section for the power hungry front channels will now be taken care of by the external preamp and power amp.

malikarshad

Thanks O'Shag. That was a kind of reply I was expecting. I always thought the preamp and pre/pro were the same.

Originally posted by O'Shag

The internal amplification will only be used for the center channel , surround channels, and sub(s) (it may be possible to re-route the unused front channels to power the surrounds or sub; check with Denon Tech Support). The preamp section and amplifier section for the power hungry front channels will now be taken care of by the external preamp and power amp.

I did not understand this part. If I use external amp like Outlaw 770 why would the Denon's internal amplification be used if all the preouts are connected to external amp.
BTW what's the fundamental difference between premap and pre processor.
Thanks for your reply.

O'Shag

Malik,

Apologies - I didn't realize the Oulaw 770 was a multi-channel amp.

Questions - How much was the 770, Have you already purchased it, Was your primary reason for purchasing it to replace the 3803 or to compliment it. Does the 3803 have 7 channels and if not how many does it have?

Frank Z

A pre-amp can be used for switching sources and controling the volume. A pre-pro is a combination of a preamp and a processor. It is used the same a preamp and also peforms processing duties (ie: DD, DTS, DPL, etc). Basically the same as a receiver but without the amplfiers built into it.

The Outlaw 950 is worth a look. The money back guaranty makes it a no-brainer. Try it and if you don't like it you get your money back. Yes you'll have to pay the freight one-way, but at least you get to try it out in your home, with your speakers and movies/music.

There a few 950 owners here, hopefully they'll chime in. If not start another thread asking them to post their experiences.

malikarshad

Originally posted by O'Shag
Malik,
Questions - How much was the 770, Have you already purchased it, Was your primary reason for purchasing it to replace the 3803 or to compliment it. Does the 3803 have 7 channels and if not how many does it have?

I bought the outlaw 770 to compliment the 3803 as I have plans to upgrade to Lsi series speakers. So the external amp is a natural transition.
3803 is a 7 channel amp with the surround back speakers channel shared between Zone2.

O'Shag

In a very basic sense the statement FrankZ makes regarding the preamp is true. however the description provided is a little vague, and understates the importance of a preamp. A preamp should maintain or optimize signal integrity for the amp(s) to process the signal. All preamps are not created equal, far from it. I would suggest that a purpose build preamp will do a better job at resolving the signal than a multipurpose processor. Put up my ARC SP11MKII, SPC SP6e, or ARC SP4 against the outlaw 950, and I believe they will be significantly better. Of course this is comparing apples and oranges because these preamps are two-channel.


Malik, I am hoping your CD player has a headphone amp and its own volume control built in, and that you have a good set of headphones (I have AKG 340s. They're electrostatics, very transparent and do not colour the music.) If you have these things, I would encourage you to try something....

First plug in your headphones to the CD player (not the receiver) and listen to three or four CDs/SACDs etc.

This is the sound quality you are aiming to recreate from your speakers, which raises the question - do you feel that the sound you are hearing through your speakers possesses the same level of detail, image quality and sounstage depth of field as that of your headphones directly connected to your CD? This in large part is the realm of the preamplifier circuitry.

Malik my friend, what are you looking to accomplish. What do you see as the weaknesses in the Denon 3803?

O'Shag

Understood Malik,

This makes sense. Personally I can't see a overwhelming reason to shell out another $800.00 on the Outlaw 950. That said, as a preamp, the outlaw will probably be better than the Denon. Definitely worth extensive listening to determine differences. But the fact remains you will have most if not all of the functionality with the Denon (am I right in assuming its a 7 channel amp?) and 770 combination as you will with the 950 and 770 combination.

dorokusai

O'Shag - You would have a hard time finding a speaker and/or gear that could create a soundfield like a hardcore headphone setup. It's apples and oranges, but I get the idea of comparing sources for head knowledge. I understand what you are trying to convey to Malikarshad.

I know I will have found the right setup when it feels like I have headphones on....and I don't. Polk SDA's brought that into the picture for me, but my headphones are still a staple of my rig, and always will be.

Hardcore headphones kick ****.