Subwoofer recommendations...

Toxis

Now I'm trying to figure out what sub i want to go with. The only reason I'm asking this is because I have no experience with a couple of the subs and want other's opinions who DO have experience with them.

Sunfire Super Junior - Now I sell this at my work and absolutely love it. AMAZING sub for the money, plenty loud and extremely clean IMO.

Polk LSiW - We carry Polk but the LSiW is still on order so I have no experience with it. Thoughts?

SVS PCi Line - What's the difference other than cabinet size and tune frequency? I can't seem to find anything else different. Who has experience with a couple different of their Cylinder Subs? I hear a lot of people talk about them and how amazing they are but again, I have not heard one. Thoughts?

This will be used for 70% HT, 30% Music. I will have the Denon 3805 (until I can afford a seperate amp, later down the road) with LSi's around (9's, C, FX). Thanks guys...

jdhdiggs

Can't speak for the LSiW, but the sunfire will be outshone in virtually all respects by the SVS. Larger driver, enclosure, and porting give the SVS the edge. The sunfire has many WAF advantages and puts out a sound that is great for most people so that may also be a consideration.

The tunes on SVS? Well, the higher the tune, the smaller and louder the sub is, but it will not go as low. For absolute fdifferences, wait for Doc Spec.

That's all my input, if you get accomidations, it changes the ballpark.

Toxis

I don't get dealer accomodations (because I work for a company that obviously doesn't want to hook up their employees) but I do get an instore discount. So my prices for all three are in the same ballpark.

dkg999

I was back at the farm in IA last week and had a chance to spend an evening drinking beer with a local group of what I will call audio/HT fanatics (buying an amplifier is for sissies, a real man builds his own amplifier from scratch types), and they were having a sub-woofer shoot-out! About 40 different subs from every make, including a few real nice custom ones. This was in a pretty large room, maybe 25'x40', with a 12' ceiling. Some of my observations:

The SVS subs in any model are very hard-hitting, produce a lot of SPL, and make you feel what is happening. They're not so good for music. In my opinion, the SVS and some of the custom subs were the best of the bunch, for movies. There were quite a few SVS subs with modifications, and they did sound different, but with ears damaged by decades of loud rock&roll and farm equipment, I'm not sure how much better they were?

The HSU subs are very good, and work better than the SVS for music, and are probably a good compromise for both. There was a couple of Velodyne Digital series subs and one JBL sub that sounded a lot like the HSU's.

I'm not real familier with Sunfire equipment, but there were a couple of different Sunfire subs that I would rate as good, but not outstanding compared to the rest.

The Outlaw LFM sub really took me by suprise, and a few other people as well. I paid attention to this one because I am considering it or an SVS for my new place early next year. Hits hard, but not as hard as the SVS, better for music, but not as good as the HSU for music. Really nice compromise for the price point.

I don't believe there was an LSi series Polk sub in the group, but there was a modified PSW1200 (? I think that was the model) that sounded incredible! Someone was using a lowly PSW505 (which I own) as a benchmark, and I was really impressed with how good the PSW505 is compared to this kind of company. There was a PSW505 that had been modified, and the difference was just incredible. I am considering spending the $80 I was told it takes to modify this sub and improve it's performance. With the modifications it was nearing the HSU class of performance!

There were lots of Velodyne, JBL, Infinity, etc. subs that had been modified in one way or another, so it was tough to really make a comparison to what you would go buy from a store.

The clear winners for movies were the fully custom built subs. Absolutely incredible! None of the SVS, HSU, etc. could even come close. These things would just seem to suck the air right out from around you, and they weren't even that loud. You could literally feel the thump against your chest.

Got to demo. an HT set-up consisting of a custom built set of subs, and six customized Magnepan (sp?) panels. Wow!

I was sure glad someone else was paying the electric bill!

Early B.

Go with SVS because there's no question about its performance, especially for HT. Get the lowest tune frequency you can afford. Just make sure it's WAF-friendly. For me, the cylinder was not an option.

jmierzur

The first style I deleted from my list when looking for new subs were the 'super cubes'. I did not like the sound quality produced by these types of subs. I doubt I will ever be able to listen to the LSiW as there is no longer a LSi dealer within the city.

The remainder of the local offerings sounded OK, but still was not quite right to replace my current units. In the end, I ordered from SVS and have not been disappointed with the results in combination with my 9's, C and FX.

Edit.

After reading the excellent post by 'dkg999', I will add that I have the PC-Ultra subs and find these to be equally adept for two channel music as well as movies. It would be interesting to know which models were used in the comparison.

You can find some comments on my subs in this thread.

Toxis

size/look is not an issue. I have a g/f but she knows not to say much when it comes to my electronics. It's an uphill fight that she won't win. hahaha

Size no issue, but musicallity is! I want a very musical sub with great HT capabilities.

jmierzur

Originally posted by dkg999
There were quite a few SVS subs with modifications, and they did sound different, but with ears damaged by decades of loud rock&roll and farm equipment, I'm not sure how much better they were?

dkg999,

Do you know what was done to modify the subs, specifically the SVS units? If you do, could you start a new thread outlining these modifications.

Thanks.

dkg999

I can try to find out, as I do know a couple of the people in this group pretty well. Keep in mind these are university engineering professors, and like-minded technical people, which puts some of what they talk about outside of my level of understanding. From what I saw the modified SVS's had the plate amps replaced or modified, along with some adjustments to the structure/length of the tube. I know that at least one of the SVS's and several of the Velodyne and Infinity sub's had the way the voice coils were cooled modified. Several of the custom subs had liquid cooled voice coils. One of the amplifiers being used to drive a custom sub had a cooling unit to keep the MOSFET's at a stable tempurature, at least I believe that was the explanation. These people are more interested in a computer simulation of how their most recent idea sends a sound wave across a room than they are in watching a movie. It's kind of fun to hang with them for an evening, but then my brain starts to hurt!

sowen010599

One of the most impressive subs I have ever heard was the Sadhara from Adire. It's not the loudest, but easily one of the best sounding subs I have ever heard. I don't think you could do better without spending 10 times as much. It's passive, so you'd need an amp.

http://www.adireaudio.com/

gatemplin

Yeah the Sadhara looks really cool, and has a clever port design. It's on sale for $600 but you need to add an amp. The driver is basically a 12" version of the Tumult.

Musical subs seem to be different things to different people. To some, small subs with higher second order harmonic distortion sound musical. Others prefer a more subtle low distortion design like the SVS subs and the Sadhara.

Here is what Spec said about the higher distortion subs,

HD doesn't necessarily sound "bad" in the conventional sense one might imagine distortion. It is simply woofer-generated harmonics of the fundamental due to non-pistonic cone behavior or other electrical or magnetic anomalies.
Some people find woofer-generated harmonics pleasing, particularly if they are even order (since they are related to the fundamental in a musical sense). But they are not part of the source, and they shouldn't be present. Once someone gets accustomed to "clean" (i.e, low HD) bass, it is hard to go back.

If you want low distortion, clean bass, go for a big sub with a big driver. The harder a driver works, the more distortion it produces. The lowest distortion drivers have a pretty flat BL curve like the SVS underhung and Adire XBL^2 drivers but they are expensive. They produce very little distortion even when they are working hard.

VR3

How could a 12" Tumult not have alot of output? 3 inches of excursion anyone?

goingganzo

dont for get av15 from stryke. also i notice in the upstairs tv room feels to have more bass than the ht but that is to the floor shake that i dont get in the ht with slab on grade.

Early B.

The Outlaw LFM sub really took me by suprise, and a few other people as well. I paid attention to this one because I am considering it or an SVS for my new place early next year. Hits hard, but not as hard as the SVS, better for music, but not as good as the HSU for music. Really nice compromise for the price point.

I understand the Dr. Hsu helped in the design of the Outlaw sub. It even resembles the Hsu subs.

I also agree that Hsu subs may be a bit more musical than SVS, although I can only speak for the entry level models. I have both the PB1-ISD and the STF-2, and I prefer the STF-2 for music.