My LSi15/Rotel/HK 230 experience

2+2

Well, I picked up my LSi 15 surround package this past Thurs. I hooked up hte LSi 15s to the HK230 refurb I just got. I listened to music all Sat. to break in the speakers and make sure the refurb was all good. It sounded wonderful...just as I remembered in demoing. My wife, after listening to many hours of me listening to classical music, said she could not tell a difference between my old speakers and the LSis. So I casually put in Nora Jones which she is familiar with....she said it sounds much better! She suggested we spend a bit more money to get some good speakers for the bedroom...which means she was very impressed.

Anyways, this is where it gets interesting. After full 12 hrs or so listening, I am comfortable with HK's operation and delighted with LSi 15, so I now hook up the Rotel 1070 amp (new) which was also waiting for the LSi's to arrive (using HK as preamp). I use new cables from bluejeans. Something does not sound right. The sound is not as clean and crisp. It is harsher in the highs and the whole soundstage is compressed. I thought it may just be a slightly "different" sound but after about 3 hrs of listening to CDs, the sound quality is definately degraded. I do A to B comparisons of just HK and HK+Rotel and am convinced HK alone sounds better. Just for kicks, I switch the cables to Acoustic Research pro II between the HK and the Rotel. The sound improves!! Much of hte clarity and crispness is returned and harshness is reduced, sound stage is bigger.

SO...I do a bit more A to B with the Rotel. Guess what...I still like the HK alone better!!!?? This is surprising since HK is only 50w vs. Rotel 100+w.

Now I am surprised and pissed at the same time. I spend all this time and money and end up liking just the AVR the most??

Lessons learned:
1. HK's sound great with the LSis.
2. Cables make a big difference.
3. Using separates are extremely difficult since preamp/amp/cables all have to sound good together. (Hey, my LSi are not the weak link!). All of the components I used were of good quality based on reviews and such but the results were not impressive.

I will probably be returning the Rotel and I will have to give bluejeans a call and see if they will refund or at least, give me a better sounding cable. (Keep in mind that I only speak my opinion as to hte model of cable I ordered and received) I will also probably contact Harmon Audio and ask if I can upgrade to AVR630 which has 90/75 watts of power for about $310 more. I hope the AVR 630 has the same sound as the 230.

Anyone have thoughts on any of this or my plans?

Of course, the above is merely my opinion and the match between the Rotel and HK may not be ideal. If I had the money, I would try the Rotel with a Rotel preamp but thats mega bucks.

Final Q: The LSiFx surrounds are huge and heavy! How do you guys mount them? Are there special stands that can be used...it has the odd shape.

Thanks

Early B.

Before you consider upgrading your receiver, try a much more powerful amp. Maybe borrow one from a friend or an audio store to try it out and see for yourself the difference it makes. Those Lsi15's will sound even better with more power. They won't sound nearly as good as they were designed to sound if played through a low-fi or mid-fi receiver, or a relatively low powered amp. I feed my Lsi7's 200 wpc (@ 8 ohms). If I had Lsi15's, I'd give them even more juice.

PolknPepsi

hI 2+2,
Thanks for your rundown on the Harmon Kardon-Rotel-Polk stuff. Good to hear.
.............Pat

2+2

hey Early B., that was my understanding as well ....that LSi15 would do better with lots of power...but my albiet limited experience has been that that power from Rotel/HK combo did not sound better than HK alone at only 50 watts. Obviously, power is only part of the equation. Rotel is 120watts at 8 ohm. Of course, the speakers may sound much much better with HK and some other brand amp (Outlaw or Adcom) but who really knows until I try them? And sorry, I am at my price limits now and not about to spend more...I want a large TV. And I dont think I am up to buying and returning a series of amps to try to find some thing better. Rotel was in my price range new but I dont think there are too many other brands in that price range in the Northern VA area that I can try and return if I dont like without incurring shipping and restocking fees. Used gear is another option but once I buy it, I cant return it....so that is really not an option.

Frank Z

Sometimes you just gotta mix and match to find the right combo for your ears.

Early B.

2+2 --

You don't have to spend more to get more. In fact, for what you paid for the 1070 new, you can return it, buy a more powerful used amp, and save money. Don't worry about being stuck with used audio gear. Many of us buy and sell used components all the time, and we sell it typically for what we paid, sometimes more.

Nevertheless, that's great if you're currently content with what you have. My prediction is that you'll be buying another amp soon anyways, particularly because you already know that your speakers are significantly underpowered, and because you've been bit by the audio bug. Ouch!!!

2+2

OOoops...typo...Rotel 1075 is the model I bougth which is a 5 ch amp with 120w/ch at 8ohm and 200w/ch at 4 ohm. I will tinker a bit more before deciding to return the Rotel....it just occurred to me that I have not tested the rig biamping the LSi15s using the Rotel....

And buying and selling audio equipment is definately not my cup of tea as I research things to death...and the most important reason...my wife would kill me if I spend all my limited spare time on this.
As far as the bug bite...where is that insect repellant of mine....lol

Mazeroth

You should really check out a pro amp like the Crown XLS-402A a lot of us guys over at avsforum.com are using.

Here's a link to a HUGE thread I started about this amp. I have the same HK AVR230 you do and listened to the LSi15s with it for a LONG time so I know how it sounded. Hooked up the 400w RMS @4 ohms Crown amp and it was UNREAL! You can get one off Ebay for ~$250-$280 shipped if you spot one at the right time.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=418666

2+2

Well, as you can gather from the above, I was disappointed when last I signed off...

Since then, here is what has happened. I made double sure about the impact of hte cables and I even picked up a set of Monster Interconnect Reference 2 cables to try out at $70/pr to connect the HK230 and the Rotel. They sounded better than bluejeans but worse than AR and of course, worse than HK by it self....so back to AR cables (which by the way, was about $18/pair from ac4l.com).

I listened some more critically and there was a benefit to having the Rotel hooked up. The bass was much tighter and mids were a bit warmer. The highs were definately not has good as the HK by itself. So I was at a crossroads....what to do.

Well, in a last final ditch effort to try to make the system with the Rotel sound better, I bi-amped the LSi15s. Some of you know this was my original plan. Rotel is 5 X 120w amp. I split each of the signals and ran them to different channels of hte Rotel. I ran another pair of AR Master Series 10 gage, O2 free, silver coated speaker wires for a total of 4 pairs going to the LSi15s...so each LSi are now getting essentially 240 w of Rotel...btw, those connectors between the binding posts are pretty thin and does not instill confidence....

.......Anyway, I put in my test cd and I listened.......


Mazeroth, Early B. and those noting the power requirements of the LSis were absolutely correct!!! It sounded beatiful. The highs were again CRYSTAL clear and everything was veyr well controlled. Sound stage is wide and I got goose bumps. After about 2 minutes of listening (seriously), I was floored saying OMG!!! The difference was pretty dramatic. I didn't doubt you guys...I just didn't know the difference would be sooo darn large!

Needless to say, I am now happy. I don't know why 120 w of Rotel power would not be enough or why HK's 50 w would sound better in the highs than the Rotel's 120. Regardless, with the bi-amping sounds significantly way better than HK alone or with 120 watts.




All of the components are staying. I will be running hte center off of the last Rotel channel and run the surrounds with the AVR...at least until I add another stereo amp (Rotel 1090 or the like) to run the mains.

I just wanted to thank those who contributed to the various threads I have posted for advice etc. I also wanted to put this into record for future reference for other newbies. Those that are on a budget, if you cant get a separate amp, consider getting an HK cuz HK (at least the AVR230) sounds really good with the LSi15...or do what Mazeroth did with the pro amps. (I just did not want a fan).

I will post other questions...like how in the hell do you guys mount these humongus LSiFXs?? Thats for another post.

Anyways...peace out. I gotta go listen.