The future of high-resolution...

steveinaz

What is your opinion on the future of SACD and DVD-A? Now that we have 2+ years invested in these technologies, I'm curious to see your opinions....

Danny Tse

I think SACD will succeed, but only as a niche format. Despite what's happening in the US, new releases are announced almost daily. As for DVD-A, I think the end is near. However, DVD-A will morph into DualDisc. Way too early to tell if it will succeed. In today's marketplace, the emphsis, unfortunately, is not on high quality sound.

Monthly additions of SACD titles at sa-cd.net

bknauss

I personally think DVD-A is the more likely one to live if either of the two live. Seems like there are more DVD-A players out there, DVD-A is the only high res media that has the ability to be played in a car, and Sony seems to have a nice trend of coming up with media that flops. *cough* BETA *cough*

From that link, looks like there are less and less SACDs being released every month. Obviously its too early to really buy into that statement since there are so few months shown.

dcarlson

SACD hybrids can be played in a car. One layer SACD one layer CD.

I have no idea if either will succeed.

PolkThug

The SACD's and DVD-A's have pretty much been pulled from the CC shelves.

F1nut

UGH!

Sony with Philips came out with the compact disc, THE most successful format to date. So what if Beta failed, you can't hit a home run everytime.

Buying music at CC? How many people actually do? Not many and who cares, CC will be out of business in less than a year.

However, Danny hit the nail on the head with his comment, "In today's marketplace, the emphsis, unfortunately, is not on high quality sound." Stand up and be heard, send emails demanding HI-REZ music, I do.

What kills me is all the folks who say, I'll just sit back and see what happens instead of buying into one, the other or both. For Christ's sake, start buying the damn things because you are depriving yourself of some GREAT sounding music.

At this present time, I'd say SACD will survive if nothing more than a niche market share, it's that good!

steveinaz

Originally posted by F1nut
What kills me is all the folks who say, I'll just sit back and see what happens instead of buying into one, the other or both. For Christ's sake, start buying the damn things because you are depriving yourself of some GREAT sounding music.

I absolutely agree with Danny on the lack of emphasis on high quality music...this is PRECISELY why I predict the demise of both, and it's unfortunate to say the least.

F1-There's no way I'm going to invest in a machine with no "confident" market. I'm certain that SACD sounds wonderful, but if I can't buy an SACD 2 years from now because the "boat sank" I'd be pretty pissed.

The problem is two-fold; first, consumers are tired of replacing their libraries; second, you've got a format war that wages on, with no end in sight as to what will be the predominate format--not good. The world of computers has educated the average consumer to the fact that constant upgrading is almost a requirement. Consumers don't want this hassle with their music, too.

Danny Tse

It's unfortunate that devices such as the Apple iPod is held up as the peak of current audio technology. I am not knocking the iPod, or any such similar players, because I do think they are revolutionary in their designs. However, these aren't the best of music reproduction devices.

I think it's a combination of bad marketing, inadequate number of new releases, poor economy, and of course, more entertainment choices that hindered the development of both SACD and DVD-A. As it stands, SACD has the better chance of surviving. It's compatible with almost all CD players (hybrid SACDs) and indications of more future releases (official announcement of Genesis on SACD in November) points to a good outlook. Price-wise, it has come down by quite a bit. When on sale, I can pick up SACD titles cheaper than regular CD releases.

BTW, current Sony Music is having a sale on all of its single-layer SACDs at sonymusic.com/sacd. For example, $19.98 for the 2-disc "O, Yeah! Ultimate Aerosmith Hits" SACD set is very good. $13.99 for single disc titles. And no shipping for orders over $25.00.

Early B.

SACD/DVD-A players may hit the $99 mark by Christmas. If not, they'll certainly be here by next summer. Eighteen months from now they'll be standard on all audio players. When that happens, they'll be a surge of multi-format recordings to hit the market. So I predict SACD and DVD-A will flourish because the price of making the disks and the DVD players will be inconsequential. Bottom line -- lower production costs will be driving force behind this change, not consumers' interest (or lack thereof) in high rez audio. Consumers will buy them because they won't have any other choices.

I'll use myself as an example. A couple of months ago I never would have considered buying an SACD/DVD-A player. Now that they're only $150 retail, I recently bought one for a 2-channel system because I couldn't find a decent new CD player in that price range. Now I'm hoping more SACDs/DVD-A's and hybrid disks become available because I've noticed the distinct difference in SQ vs. redbook CDs. In fact, the redbooks even sound phenomenal on my SACD/DVD-A player.

VR3

I am with Steve on this one...

Being in high school and working for thing at a time - I don't have the funds to buy something that wont be here tommorow, or a chance of buying something that wont be here tommorow.

F1nut

Steve and Trey,

You guys are missing the point. If you invest in a SACD/CD player today and buy SACD hybrid discs, which almost all SACD's are these days, you'll still be able to enjoy SACD for years to come even if you can't buy new ones two years from now. In fact, you'll be able to enjoy the redbook layer no matter what happens and the hybrid redbook layer is better sounding than the regular (non-SACD) releases. There were vast numbers of people with the same thinking as you guys back when CD's first hit the streets and look at them now. In fact, it took 7 years for CD's to really take foot and it's only been 3 years for SACD.

wallstreet

Fail. If I can't take it in the car or I can't take 100 songs (i.e. MP3) I'm not too interested in the technology

Danny Tse

Britney Spears is available on hi-rez....DVD-A.

I agree with you, Zero. However, the younger generation thinks high performance audio is determined by how many songs can be carried on a MP3 player or how much rattle can be induced onto the next car over. For them, it's not about the resolution, or the quality of a well-done multi-channel mix.

The paradigm of high performance audio has shifted....

bknauss

Couple comments:
- Yes, Sony and Philips did collaborate on creating CDs, but Sony still has a record of coming up with things that don't sell well. They seem to like to keep the players to make themselves and not allow anyone else to make them.
- Who cares of DVD players are all going to have DVD-A and SACD built in soon? How many people already have a DVD player? How many are really looking forward to dropping another $100+ on a media player if they have the ability to play DVD-V and CDs on the player they already have.
- Who's going to buy SACD hybrids if they cost more than a regular CD, or are much harder to find than the CD counterpart. SACDs are generally remastered and have better sound (along with DVD-As), but without convenience and an equal price point to something people are already using, people aren't going to pay $5 extra or whatever for a slight difference in sound quality (this is assuming Joe Consumer can actually hear the difference).
-On the note of sound quality, I've been extremely turned off by DVD-As that take an original recording and simply put a delay on the rear channels. The Eagles' "Hell Freezes Over" does this slightly and The Police's "Every Breath You Take" also has this. It sounds terrible! I could care less about 5.1 since its nearly impossible to get the sound to be as good as 2 channel without a dedicated home theater room.

I say keep 5.1 sound to movies and 2 channel to music. If you want music to have somewhat of a surround feeling, go find some SDAs or start a petition for Polk to start making SDAs again.

I-SIG

Originally posted by bknauss
If you want music to have somewhat of a surround feeling, go find some SDAs or start a petition for Polk to start making SDAs again.

While on certian tracks, SDA can produce a "surround" effect, it is by no means a surround format, if you will. Remember, it's called Stereo Dimensional Array, not Surround DImensional Array.

Wes

F1nut

Sony, as the largest manufacturer of electronics and one of the largest record labels, should as a business take risks with the introduction of new products. So, we arrive at an easy conclusion, a higher number of products introduced will result is a higher percentage of products that might not make it. Like Sony or not, without them we wouldn't have a lot of the products that we enjoy today.

SACD's are, for the most part, priced the same and sometimes lower than CD's unless you shop at Tower Records. I do agree they are harder to find in stores and I can only fault the stores for not promoting them better. One year after a conversation with the manager of Tower in Rockville in which he promised to make changes in the way SACD's and DVD-A's are displayed/promoted and stocked nothing has changed, nothing! Screw them, I give my SACD business to the online stores.

"I say keep 5.1 sound to movies and 2 channel to music. If you want music to have somewhat of a surround feeling, go find some SDAs or start a petition for Polk to start making SDAs again."

Now, that's something we agree on 100%

bknauss

Well, I guess we'll agree to disagree on most things, but at least we found common ground on one area

Danny Tse

Today came the following article....

http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/EHXsurround2004conference2.php

I think we've heard these type of rumors before. Is Sony a key player, in both software and hardware on a worldwide basis, in SACD anymore? Seems like others have taken up the baton and started running with it. The arrival of DualDisc may muddy up the puddle but I think SACD has such a headstart that it will be dumb to abandon it now. Didn't I just read in Stereophile that vinyl and SACD were the only formats showing growth?

On the other hand, has Sony given up on MiniDisc yet? If MiniDisc can still survive, I seriously doubt SACD is in trouble. BTW, SACD is closing in on its 2,500th title....currently at 2,384 titles.

TheReaper

And the winner will be: DVDs with DTS sound :cool:

F1nut

Ummm...we're talking about hi-rez here, not DTS, DD or BS.

TheReaper

Originally posted by F1nut
Ummm...we're talking about hi-rez here, not DTS, DD or BS.

Ummm...we're talking about the future of hi-rez, I voted both will fail, hence my comment.

As a side note, Danny Tse's link to new news, has a link to this page:

http://www.grammy.com/pe_wing/guidelines/index.aspx

Which has a link to an interesting pdf titled:

Recommendations for Surround Sound Production

F1nut

Sorry you feel that way, have you tried either SACD or DVD-A?

TheReaper

No, I don't have a player. I do have a couple of music DVDs.

F1nut

Well, Sheeeeeet you need to get your listen on. You're welcome here for a demo of SACD that'll have you running out to buy a player and the software. And no, DVD-V doesn't count.

danger boy

I predict SACD and DVD-Audio will both fail... so will stereo music... and we should all return to mono listening only. :rolleyes:

dkg999

I don't think we have seen the technology/format that will lead this market segment yet! Sony has the financial power to keep SACD alive, and enough control in the electronics and music/movie business to make sure it survives. I think there will be a new format that becomes the "standard" for this area, with SACD relegated to "betamax" status.

F1nut

I'm curious......of the 10 people that voted the hi-rez formats will fail, how many have listened to either or own either???

danger boy

i voted both will fail. i have been listening to DVD-Audio for about three years now in my HT rig. I don't own a SACD player. but have a brother in law who does.. and have listened to both formats extensively. so there. neener, neener, neener.

danger boy

although I voted that both will fail.. i actually hope both survive.. but lilke someone said earlier.. i think they'll turn out to be niche formats.. the general public will probably not embrace either one. to bad too.

bknauss

Originally posted by Danny Tse


On the other hand, has Sony given up on MiniDisc yet? If MiniDisc can still survive, I seriously doubt SACD is in trouble. BTW, SACD is closing in on its 2,500th title....currently at 2,384 titles.

MD is hugely popular is Japan and Europe. Just as an example, if you check out the American vs. Euro or Japanese Alpine head units, you'll notice the latter actually have MD units available.

steveinaz

Originally posted by F1nut
I'm curious......of the 10 people that voted the hi-rez formats will fail, how many have listened to either or own either???

You're making my point for me. I won't even try them (just like most consumers) because its still too much of a gamble. Hell, I can't find an SACD disc in this small town.