So you want to buy an H2....

Frank Z

Seems that they're a bit fragile......

http://64.146.131.38/misc/Misc_vids/Cars_Offroad/H2sFawkinSuck.wmv

Ron-P

One of the very few who thought what he actually bought was an off road vehicle when in all truth it's just a pavement pounder and nothing more. It's tough to learn the hard way.

dorokusai

A Tahoe in Fabio clothing.

exalted512

Originally posted by dorokusai
A Tahoe in Fabio clothing.

please dont relate tahoes and h2s...thats low...
h2s have 35" tires stock and have about the same ground clearance as a Z-71:rolleyes:
i cant believe GM took Hummer and made it into a POS
-Cody

F1nut

Having done a lot of off-roading in my time I can tell you that what happened to the H2 could have happened to ANY truck. I've seen stock trucks break and I've seen fully modded race trucks break. When off-roading it's not a case of if it might, but rather a case of when.

dylan

They didn't protect the root folder of that video, check the rest out: Vids

Try the 'tracyroll.mpeg' towards the bottom...

Jstas

Originally posted by exalted512
please dont relate tahoes and h2s...thats low...
h2s have 35" tires stock and have about the same ground clearance as a Z-71:rolleyes:
i cant believe GM took Hummer and made it into a POS
-Cody

An H2 IS a Tahoe! Exact same underpinnings and chassis. Honestly, what makes the H2 such a pile of crap is that it's heavy, too heavy for it's chassis.

exalted512

yeah i know it is...the H2 sucks b/c its a grocery getter with a locker in the back...
and what happened to that H2 doesnt necessarily mean it could happen to any truck
spinning 35s takes a lot of force especially on something as weak as the IFS under that brick on wheels
i doubt a truck with a solid front axle wouldve broken anything at all
the problem with that vehicle is
1. the driver
and 2. the stress that was put on it due to the weight of the tires and spinning them so fast
-Cody

F1nut

Cody,

Sorry, those are not the reasons for the broken tie-rod. It wasn't the driver or the tire/wheel weight, the real problem was the large rock under the passengers side front wheel which caused the suspension geometry to max out in combination with the torque from the spinning wheel, which in turn snapped the tie-rod.

IFS or solid axle wouldn't make a difference because neither of them failed, it was the tie-rod. I would take a IFS over a solid axle any time, much more control and flex. I've driven over stuff like that out west and let me tell you it ain't easy and everybody breaks something sooner or later. One thing that really helps when rock crawling is to make the passenger get out and help guide the truck. Hmmmmm.....perhaps that was the drivers fault.

Having said that, if I had a choice I'd take the original Hummer (with IFS & IRS) over the H2 (with IFS & solid rear axle), but with it's wide width I know the sheet metal would take a beating on a trail like that. There is an advantage/dis-advantage to each and every off-road truck.

F1

exalted512

ahh....it was the tie rod...i see it now...at first i thought it was a broken cv joint...when i looked at it it looked like the tire went sideways...like '/' - not just in
anyway, on gm trucks at least...those tie rods suck....theyre made pretty damn crappy
and not trying to cause an arguement...just want to know why you think you can get more travel out of an IFS than you can SFA...
maybe stock...but even then i dont think it would me THAT much of an advantage...
theres no comparison if it was modified at all...theres a reason rock crawlers use SFA's
plus, SFAs are stronger and cheaper to upgrade
the main reason manufacturers switched to IFS is because of the smoother ride
-Cody

F1nut

No arguement, just a discussion.....

Take the Hummer for example, 21 inches of wheel travel on each wheel. That means you could have the left front wheel up 21 inches and the right front wheel down 21 inches and still have grip to both wheels. That can't be done with solid axles. Look at every pro race truck, they have independent fronts and rears which take the worst possible abuse you're likely to find and they prove themselves time and time again. The old school way of thinking that rock hard suspensions (usually solid axles) has been proven to be inferior to softer, more compliant ones.

exalted512

you cant compare the hummer...thats cheating...
i mean really...there is no vehicle from gm, mopar, etc that has an IFS even close to being as strong as the hummers
longer a-arms is what gives it more wheel travel...
off road racers have IFS b/c of quicker response to bumps therefore better traction while going FAST
rockcrawling, going through mud, general 'off-roading' is not done at a high rate of speed
plus...those arent stock GM or whatever IFS...those are A LOT stronger...
also the fact that its a much smoother ride...you dont want to be jumping dunes in a SFA truck...much to rough...
speaking of which...you might enjoy this link
i wish i was an idiot that was rich...
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/joelopez/gmcjump/
but anyway
for most off-roading use, aside from racing, SFA is almost always better
less moving parts to break for one...i always hear about people breaking cv joints etc
you cant put a locker in an IFS...they dont make em cuz its the IFS is too weak to handle it
you cannot put bigger than 37s and expect it to not break...go to any off-road forum you like...everyone will tell you...
go to any gm off-roading forum...all the serious guys that are using newer trucks have swapped to SFA
just stay away from pirate4x4...not very many nice people over there unless youre a serious competitor
and i bet you anything that a stock Z-71 wouldve gotten over that rock...
weight does play a major issue in a tie rod breaking
i saw some pics on another forum of a direct comparison of IFS vs SFA where i guy with a gmc or chevy had ifs and then did a swap to SFA
he had one tire on a rock and it was plain to see that the SFA had much more travel
i asked to see if anyone had it...but no one has replied yet...hopefully i can get it...its by far the best comparison ive seen
i do have these though:

exalted512

and the IFS:
i believe both have a 6" lift and 35x12.50s

exalted512

granted the pic with the SFA has much more rear travel than the IFS...but i will try to find that other one i was talking about...i thought i saved it to my computer but i guess not:(
-Cody

dorokusai

H2 = ****.

Cody posted a REAL off-road capable vehicle.

F1nut

"...off road racers have IFS b/c of quicker response to bumps therefore better traction while going FAST"

The better traction applies to going slow too.


"you cant put a locker in an IFS...they dont make em cuz its the IFS is too weak to handle it"

Not true at all. Here's one......
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/4Runner/tech/ifs_airlocker/


"weight does play a major issue in a tie rod breaking"

Not true, it's torque (stress)


"you cannot put bigger than 37s and expect it to not break..."

That's why they sell aftermarket kits for IFS to allow for more wheel travel and bigger tires, just like SFA trucks. When you get into tires that big you are looking at a lot of unsprung weight and without mods to either suspension type you are going to break something.


Cool pics, but as you say the old Chevy has much more rear and front wheel travel because of suspension mods, the newer truck is stock.

exalted512

IFS not does not offer better traction when going slow b/c there is not as much of a need for quicker response
i think eaton makes a locker for GM called the a-locker..a few people have tried wheeling on it and broke a lot more than they wouldve without it...i dunno about toyotas though...i do know GM...and as far as im concerned..theres no locker that works and wont break your IFS components in a gm vehicle
what do you mean aftermarket kits for IFS to allow bigger tires?
do you mean lift kits?
yes, they make kits to allow for the size of bigger tires but if you go over 37 on IFS you either a) a mall cruiser or b) stupid and youre going to break a lot of stuff
theres only soo much you can do to beef up IFS...and it ends up costing you more than if you just switched to a dana 60 in the front
even then...you cant replace the internals
and please tell me why all serious off-road vehicles with big tires will always have SFA and why you will never see an IFS rock crawler?
its because the IFS is too weak
go to offroad forums and see for yourself
all this said my next truck is going to be a new GMC Z-71 with the IFS
why?
because i could never drive a dodge:D
itll be lifted with a CST 6-8" lift kit with 35x12.50s...looking at goodyear mt/r's, bfg m/t's, or mickey thompson baja claws for the tires
ill only be getting 6" of lift because i wont be using the keys to get the 8"....it makes your cv angles steeper thus youll end up breaking more stuff...breaking stuff sucks out on the trail...lol
heres the pic i was looking for:
the truck is using the same size tires in both pics with mods to both suspension systems, none more than the other

Frank Z

Guys,
I posted the link cuz I thought is was rather humorous to see a high-dollar rig fall apart on a relatively minor trail. Yes it could happen to anyone in any rig, but considering the hype surrounding the H2 it is kinda funny.

My Durango has IFS which limits the wheel travel and a new lift kit is in the planning stages. I'll get more clearance but the wheel travel won't increase at all (bummer). Bigger tires (33x12.5x16's) and gears (3.91) will be added as well, just gotta hit the lotto first!

exalted512

were not fighting...just having a mature conversation about why our opinions differ:D
my lift will increase wheel travel a tad...but not much...to increase wheel travel you need longer a-arms...but there are a few other restricting factors
i almost forgot...im regearing as well...the truck will most likely have 3.73s and im thinking about going with 4.10s or 4.56s...it will still be a daily driver which is why the 4.10s look good (better mileage) but the 4.56s look good too because theres MORE POWER!!
*insert Tim Allen grunt here*
heres some more offroading pics:



the chevy on 38s thats pulling out the Jimmy--well, he started to back up and broke his half shaft while pulling it out...
still a cool looking truck though:D
i cant wait to get mine:cool:
i wish i had enough money to get some of interco's boggers...and replace them every 10k miles...lol...the ride would suck...but itd look mean as hell
-Cody

dorokusai

Did anyone notice Micah in that last picture

F1nut

I was refering to kits that allow more wheel travel for IFS, not just a lift kit although that is a benefit of the IFS kits. You can have your solid axles, I'll take a truck with IFS and IRS like a Hummer or pro truck.


"and please tell me why all serious off-road vehicles with big tires will always have SFA and why you will never see an IFS rock crawler?"

I think the trucks mentioned above are as serious as it gets and they do rocks very well.


Damn, those pics are making me miss off-roading.

exalted512

id take an IFS like a hummers anyday as well...the problem is thats not what comes in the trucks from the car dealership:(
and if you couldnt tell...all of those trucks were stuck...lol
its kind of funny b/c if you look at the first picture...that blue truck doesnt look very big at all...then you look at it in the last pic and you can see how big that hole was!
in a few years im going to get a 70s model blazer and fix it up so i can go beat it up:D
that or a cj jeep...but the blazer already has a v-8...id have to do a swap with a jeep...id probably end up taking the engine out of the blazer and dropping a crate motor in it anyway though...
ahhh the possibilities:cool:
-Cody

scottvamp

I wuz ta hev one od ol trucks for da tracta pulls do go man. Dat ting had dem big ol tire man - darn thing could go up hill bakward in da snow pulling a house in da dday. Man had dat 32 inch lift dag ol man could not fit in da garage man.

Dennis Gardner

You may have seen this before, but its always worth a look!
Check out this F350 crewcab, it kicks the riceburner's ****.

F350 Run