Surround speaker question

Mikey_C
Mikey_C Posts: 13
edited August 2004 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
I currently have a 5.1 setup using RTi4's as my surround speakers. They are placed in location "A" on the following diagram:

layout_a_or_b.jpg


I have been toying around with the idea of replacing them with FXi3's placed in position "B" as shown above.

Would this be a better setup, or should I just leave the RTi4's where they are?
Post edited by Mikey_C on
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  • gatemplin
    gatemplin Posts: 1,595
    edited August 2004
    Welcome to club polk Mikey,

    Great job with the diagram. My HT is almost exactly the same as yours, even the sub is in the same place. I have direct radiators in the same "A" position and have also wondered if I would be better off with dipoles on the back wall, position "B". If you try the FXi3s, let me know if you like them better.
    Graham
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  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited August 2004
    Interesting setup - with the side surrounds in the same alignment with the rear surrounds, you should just be running 5 channel because the purpose of 7 channel (360 sound) is almost entirley defeated. In a reality, your side surrounds should be half to two thirds of the room. Also Dolby specifies dipoles on the sides and direct in the rear.....
    Hope this helps!
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited August 2004
    If it were me I would try FXi3's or 5's slightly forward of position A and I would shift the front sound stage and the couch towards the bottom of the diagram so that the ends of the couch are equidistant to the walls or A positions or in other words so there is 35" from each end of the couch to the corresponding side surround.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • Mikey_C
    Mikey_C Posts: 13
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by scottvamp
    Interesting setup - with the side surrounds in the same alignment with the rear surrounds, you should just be running 5 channel because the purpose of 7 channel (360 sound) is almost entirley defeated. In a reality, your side surrounds should be half to two thirds of the room. Also Dolby specifies dipoles on the sides and direct in the rear.....
    Hope this helps!

    This IS a 5.1 setup....what I'm trying to decide is doing setup "A" --OR-- setup "B", not both.
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  • Mikey_C
    Mikey_C Posts: 13
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by PolkWannabie
    If it were me I would try FXi3's or 5's slightly forward of position A and I would shift the front sound stage and the couch towards the bottom of the diagram so that the ends of the couch are equidistant to the walls or A positions or in other words so there is 35" from each end of the couch to the corresponding side surround.

    Unfortunately, I cannot do either. I have to center the TV across the short wall and if I move the couch further left, the left most seat would have an excellent view....of the hallway :)


    As for position "A", the left wall, is actually a pillar that is only 10 inches wide, not much room to move it forward.

    :confused:
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  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by Mikey_C
    This IS a 5.1 setup....what I'm trying to decide is doing setup "A" --OR-- setup "B", not both.
    Gotcha!!!! Had to reread that - 7 channel does rock though and you will have an extra set of speakers.
    Then either would work - it is just a matter of preference. Because of your room setup.
    But with dipole speakers they are designed to be side mounted around 2 feet above ear level and close to the sides of seating position which is never ideal all the way against the rear wall. If the speakers are directly over your head the sound will not be ideal.
    Again hope this helps.....
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by PolkWannabie
    If it were me I would try FXi3's or 5's slightly forward of position A and I would shift the front sound stage and the couch towards the bottom of the diagram so that the ends of the couch are equidistant to the walls or A positions or in other words so there is 35" from each end of the couch to the corresponding side surround.
    Mikey,

    Whether or not you can move the couch I would still favor the FXi's over the RTi's with placement in position "A".
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by PolkWannabie
    Mikey,

    Whether or not you can move the couch I would still favor the FXi's over the RTi's with placement in position "A".
    Yep, that is the best way to go.:)
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  • Mikey_C
    Mikey_C Posts: 13
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by PolkWannabie

    Whether or not you can move the couch I would still favor the FXi's over the RTi's with placement in position "A".

    Even if they will basically be in the corner. The space I have to mount them on the left side is only about 12" wide, which is wide enough to hold an FXi3, but the "back facing" part would be right up against that back wall. Wouldn't that affect the sound somewhat? Also, I assume in position "A" you would use them in di-pole mode. Would using them in bi-pole mode in position "B" offer an advantage? Forgive me if my questions seem silly, but I'm still a newbie at this.
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited August 2004
    There are NO silly questions ... only silly answers ...

    Yes ... bi/dipoles to the sides should be set in dipole ...

    However if you believe that bi/dipoles are the best choice for your situation then get a pair and play with the location A .vs. B and settings bipole .vs. dipole. Try both settings in both locations.

    Theory is great but what IS best is what SOUNDS best to you in your listening area.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • Mikey_C
    Mikey_C Posts: 13
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by PolkWannabie
    There are NO silly questions ... only silly answers ...

    Ok then, here's another few:
    1. On the left side, that little pillar (see my diagram) is actually the begginning of an archway. I could put an FXi up on the arch (my wife would kill me, but I'll deal with that later), but it would be very high, probably 4 to 5 feet above the seating area. Could putting the speaker this high be a problem? I always thought 2 to 3 feet above ear level was the "norm".
    2. If I DO get the FXi's...what am I gonna do with the RTi4's (I've only had them a few months)? :)
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  • Airplay355
    Airplay355 Posts: 4,298
    edited August 2004
    ive tried having my fxi30's in a position like your position "A" and i don't like the way it sounds, i get more of a 180 degree soundfield then 360 degrees. i have my fxi30's above my head on the back wall and thats the wall and thats the way i like it. i've tried other ways and didnt like the way it sounded. to each his own i guess
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited August 2004
    Airplay ... Is your back wall immediately behind your sitting area or is it some distance away ?

    Mikey ... As far as testing speaker locations goes you can always temporarily put them on make shift stands etc. which beats drilling holes all over the place until you get them where you want them without bringing on the wifes wrath. If you wanted to go that route you won't have much trouble selling the 4's in the flea market here or on eBay.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited August 2004
    Another option if you can move the couch out a little from the wall is to put the 4's on the floor behind the couch facing up ...
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited August 2004
    i have my FX300i's at position A on your diagram, running in bipole mode. I have a large window behing the couch.. so i could not mount them on the rear wall. The side wall sounds great to me. I have never wanted to move them any other place. I tried dipole mode. and it sounded wrong.. like the surround effect was not blending with the fronts.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • Stevarian
    Stevarian Posts: 16
    edited August 2004
    Mikey_C, what program did you use to create your diagram?

    I wanted to come on tonight, and post a similar question. I have a pair of FXi30's, that I still haven't placed yet. My living room is similar to yours, basically a rectangle, with a fireplace on one short wall, and a closet on the opposite short wall. My couch is in front of the window, and the tv and equipment is on the wall opposite.

    A friend at work suggested putting the FXi30's on stands, behind and to the sides of my couch. Any thoughts, or should I create a diagram too?

    Thanks!

    Steve
    Spokane, WA
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited August 2004
    Stevarian,

    if you like. you can come check out my set up since we live in the same city. i'd be glad to have you come over and see what you think.

    let me know.

    Al
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • Mikey_C
    Mikey_C Posts: 13
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by Stevarian
    Mikey_C, what program did you use to create your diagram?

    I used Visio (it has a building layout stencil) and then converted it to a jpg file.

    I still have not decided if I'm going to leave the RTi4's where they are now (position "A") or replace them with FXi3's.
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited August 2004
    Mikey,

    For what it's worth IMHO the bi/dipoles perform better than point sources when used as side surrounds regardless of whether they are positioned on the side or behind.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • Mikey_C
    Mikey_C Posts: 13
    edited August 2004
    I would agree...I am just concerned with the fact that in my specific situation, they would be basically in the back corner. I don't know how that would affect the performance.
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  • gidrah
    gidrah Posts: 3,049
    edited August 2004
    Providing you are able to adjust the rear delay; I'd keep the speakers you have, move them slightly forward, angle them up and back. You'll probably have to recalibrate them. This approach should broaden your rear soundstage without having to also send it forward.
    Make it Funky! :)
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  • Mikey_C
    Mikey_C Posts: 13
    edited August 2004
    Right now they are fixed on to the wall using the little key-hole thingie on the back. If I undertand what you are suggesting correctly, I could use one of those "ball & socket" type speaker mounts , move them forward and aim them towards the back wall and up? Like this?

    layout_a_or_b2.jpg
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  • gidrah
    gidrah Posts: 3,049
    edited August 2004
    Yep. You could probably come up with some way to temporarily move them to see if you like the results without having to purchase anything or poke any new holes.
    Make it Funky! :)
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  • opus
    opus Posts: 1,252
    edited August 2004
    Mikey_C,

    For what its worth heres my opinion. I had a similiar setup to yours with my set of Fxi30's in the A position on speaker stands. After reading one of the posts I installed the speakers on corner shelves 7' high ( I have 9' ceilings) . Wow... Iwas stunned at the difference. I don't know how much is imagined but when I put in Dark Side of the Moon on SACD it was totally different than before. It seemed, IMO, that it "opened" up the sound and made things more clear. I'm now going through my music and movies ( much to the distress of my family) and relistening to them to see if there are similiar differences. Take care
    OPUS
    The Flea rig
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  • Euthyphro
    Euthyphro Posts: 4
    edited August 2004
    I have an almost identical setup to yours (see: Fig. 1, below). I currently have a 5.1 setup with monopole SL and SR in the "A" position of your drawing. (each mounted 1 foot down from the ceiling)

    I was thinking of going to 7.1 and moving my monopoles to the rears (SBL and SBR), and adding diopoles in the previous SL and SR locations as shown in Fig. 1. I think the SL and SR locations are okay for the dipoles, but I have seen conflicting opinions on the position of the SBL ans SBR speakers.

    For example, THX recommends placing them next to each other as shown in Figure 2 of the following link (small room): http://www.audioholics.com/FAQs/THXp2.html#illustrations

    Dolby uses a slightly different arrangement as depicted in Figure 2 of the following link: http://www.dolby.com/Consumer/HomeEntertainment/Setup/

    What do you think the sweet spot would be for the rears in my 7.1 configuration being that my sofa is close to the back wall? I will be experimenting, but also wanted to hear some opinions, particularly with regard to the THX vs. Dolby setup.

    Thanks.

    HT1.jpg
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  • Airplay355
    Airplay355 Posts: 4,298
    edited August 2004
    check out my system showcase pics.....my back wall it right behind my seating area aka my bed
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