Which Subs to use...

Grimster74

Its been years since I've messed with car audio so please hang in there with me. Just a little background on myself. I used to be a car audio junky back in 1994. My then system consisted of a 1994 Nissan pick-up with a fiberglass shell with a complete walk-thru. System consisted of 12-15" Orion Subs, 14-Orion Amps and 6 die-hard gold batteries. Each door consisted of 3-6.5" subwoofers, 2-4" mid-bass drivers and 2-1" tweeters. Head unit was a Clarion and all crossover functions went to a Audio Control EQT. So, as you can see, I was no stranger to car audio. Then, about 3 years ago I tore it all out and sold everything.

Well here is my question, about 2 months ago I bought a new 2004 Toyota Tacoma, 4 door. I've already replaced the factory head unit with the new Alpine CDA-9835, click link at the bottom of the page for those that have not seen this kick ****$ head unit. Anyways, anyone that has seen one of these Toyota's know there is little to no room behind these rear seats. I've looked into purchasing 2 JL Audio 8's and build a small, and I mean small box. The reasoning behind the JL's is the mounting depth. They are right at 4" in top mounted depth. There is so little room behind the rear seats that I'm even going to make the box out of 1/2" MDF. I will be purchasing a mono block amp to run the subs and probally get a 4 channel amp to run all four doors. Can anyone recommend any better subs. The new Rockford Fosgate 8's have a mounting depth of 3-13/16". Its just been quit a while since I've had to purchase any of the above equipment so I figured I'd just ask any and all opinions. These are the things I'd like to get recommendations on.

1) 2-8" subwoofers
2) 6.5" components sets for front doors
3) 6.5" or 6"x9" for rear doors
4) mono block amp for subs
5) 4 channel amp to run highs

I'd really like to keep everything looking factory other than the sub box of course. As far as a budget goes, really don't have one but for the hell of it, lets just say keep it around $1500-$2000. Thanks in advance for all your recommendations. And by the way, if I can find any pictures of my old system, I'll post pics.

Here's the link to the Alpine head unit.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-vpGl94x1BGP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=3&g=300&I=500CDA9835&o=m&a=1&cc=01&avf=Y&search=

dorokusai

Why not just hook that PB2+ in the back seat area?

Getting restless now that the HT is squared away?

Grimster74

Beleive me, if I could figure out a way Doro, it would have been done already.:D Haven't heard from you in a while, where have you been hiding. Did you get that pronto file I sent you.

dorokusai

Yea, thanks much, but I'm still trying to figure all that stuff out I don't see anything that remote can't do, it's amazing. I'll let you alone to get some help from these mobile guru's. Talk to you via email later.

MacLeod

Personally I love the **** out of JL Audio. In my opinion they are the best subs you can buy. The 8W3 would be my recommendation and even tho theyre rated at 125 rms feel free to throw 200-250 at em. Im running a pair of JL 8W1s and they are rated at 100 rms and Im giving them 175-200 and theyre working perfectly.

For components under $300, you cant beat the MM6. It pretty much rules at this price point. The MMC6500 is also pretty great but I believe the MM6 is a little heavier duty.

If youre wanting to venture closer to $400 Ill say go with the MB Quart Reference ($330), Diamond Audio M661s ($360)or the JL Audio XR650-CSi ($375). The Quart will be more detailed, the Diamond will be smoother and the JL will have more midbass.

Id recommend against rear speakers for best SQ. Rear speakers wont make your sound suck by any means but you will ALWAYS get better SQ without them. The reason is that when you have the same music coming at you from different distances, they will get to your ears at different times and smear some of the detail. Plus they will pull the image way to the rear.

For amps under $350 I like Crossfire and MTX. Both are powerhouse, competition level amps that have warehouses full of output. I like the Crossfire cause theyre a little more rare and thats cool. The MTX is built like a tank and virtually indestructible.

For amps in the $400+ neighborhood, my favorites are Xtant, Orion and JL Audio. All are awesome performers but come at a premium.

exalted512

Focal makes some kick **** little 6" subs...heard some about a month ago...surprised me A LOT
see if you can get blaukpunt's overdrive subs
theyre about as deep as a AAA battery
id take that over JL anyday...but i hate JL
itd probably give you a lot more flexibility installing as well
-Cody

Grimster74

Thanks for all your input. MacLeod, as far as the rear speakers go. I know you recommend against them due to sound quality because of the time correction factor but would you still recommend not putting them in when the head unit I'm using has built in digital time correction. I'm still leaning towards the JL's due to the price and once again top mounted depth. The reason I'm adding subs is for just that little bit of thumb, not trying to enter any SPL contest, been there, done that. I have two small children that will be riding in the back seats so I don't wanna do anything to crazy. I will definately be looking into the Polk seperates but once again, that all depends on the mounting depth.

exalted512

i know the adire koda's have an extremely small mounting depth
you can look at em at www.sound-foundations.us
AustinKP can get you a discount since we both know the owner...but hes going to buy the kodas and im buying the Bramhas...so you might want to shoot him a PM
Seth...the owner of the store...is a really great guy and he helped me with the size my box should be along with giving me a pretty hefty discount
time correction on your head unit will not make sound quality as good as not running rears at all
when youre at a concert...how many times do they have the speakers behind you?
never...
i have rear speakers...but only turn them on when listening to comedy or news or when i have passengers
or at times like this when i blew the mid woofer on my component set and im missing everything under 3.2Khz on the drivers side...lol
-Cody

Grimster74

Okay, went out and purchased my new gear today. Here is a run down of what I purchased. Let me know what you think.

1 - Polk Audio MMC6500 Comp. set (front doors)

1 - Polk Audio MMC570 coaxial (rear doors)

2 - JL Audio 8W0's (rear subs)

1 - Alpine MRP-F240 4 channel @ 40x4 (door amp.)

1 - Alpine MRP-M350 mono @ 200x1 (for subs)

MacLeod

OK, well everything looks really good except for the amps.

I had that exact same 4 channel and it is one super clean and sweet sounding amp. However it really, really lacks power. I can pretty much guarantee that 40 watts is the most youll ever get out of that thing and 40 watts will not do the MMC justice. The coaxial in the rear will be fine with it but youll need a little more juice on the comps.

Here is what I would do. Go buy the Alpine V Power 50x2 amp. They are like $110 at Circuit City. Use this one to power the MMC570 and then use the 40x4 to bi-amp the front. This means running the tweeters off the front channels and the midrange off the rear. This will give you a lot more power and youll be able to tune your system with a lot more flexibility this way.

The mono amp is awesome. This is one powerful little amp. This thing was tested by Performance Auto Sound and it put out 250x1 at 4 ohms and 420+x1 at 2 ohm. So if both your JLs are 4 ohm subs theyll be getting over 200 watts each which is about the max youll want to give them.

Overall, it looks really good. If you have the cash I highly recommend getting the 2 channel amp for the rear. I cannot express how much better my MM690 sounded when I bi-amped them with that amp. Night and day difference.

Grimster74

Beleive me MacLeod, if I had the room, I would have purchased different amps all together. I can't stress the fact enough on how limited I am on space. I needed two really small amps that can be mounted under the front seats of my Toyota Tacoma, and to be honest with you, I'm not happy with doing that either. Just to give you a rough idea. The box I am preparing to build is roughly this big, the total distance across the back is 50", it's 9-1/2" tall at the back wall, 4" out at the top and 7" out at the bottom. I'm still having doubt I'll even be able to get the subs in behind the seat. Only time and headache will tell.:D

Grimster74

Hey MacLeod, I've been thinking about what you said. Beings I'm really limited on space, do you think if I purchased the Alpine MRP-T220 which is 50x2 instead of the 4 channel Alpine I'd be better off. I could then use the 2 channel Alpine to power the fronts and just use the power off the head unit to run the rears or would I just be better off sticking to the 4 channel Alpine. Let me know what you think.

MacLeod

I know EXACTLY where youre coming from on space limitations. Im driving a Ram Quad Cab now and am driving myself crazy trying to figure out where to mount amps and subs and STILL have some space for tools and such.

In that since, the Alpines will be perfect. They are very compact. And you shouldnt regret buying them either, mine sounded great for what they are and Im sure youll be very happy with them for a long time to come.

Here is what I think you should do. Dump the rear speakers altogther. Trust me on this it WILL sound noticeably better. Rear speakers are for passengers and as a wise man once said, "when my passengers start paying for my stereo gear, then Ill worry about their soundstage".

With the rear speakers gone you take the 40x4 and bi-amp your front MMC6500s.

But in case you dont take my word for it try it for yourself. Hook up just the front speakers to the front channels and listen to them for a while. Then bi-amp them and set the tweet (front) gain to about 11 o'clock and the mid (rear) gain to noon and set the x-over to 0 db and I will guarantee you it will sound twice as good.

Not only are you giving the speakers the much needed power they need but youre also able to adjust the tweeter output with much more flexibility than the 0,-3,-6db options you have on your x-over and it will be more likely youll find the sweet spot.

Another hint on small boxes. You can get some PVC pipe and seal up one end airtight and snake it under the backseat some. This will add a little more volume to the enclosure. Itll be ugly as sin but it may help.

LittleCar_w/12s

another vote for no rear speakers... I may install some , but not in the typical location and they will be probably powered off the deck, as I can't see paying for another amp to run them... My 4-ch kenwood will be running the fronts, and one big one for the subs, but that's IT... I wont spend much on the rears, and they might be some leftover crap lying around if I feel like even glassing in the pillars to put em on...
Save yourself time on the rears, it's not an SUV, so it wont be dead in the back, and your back-seaters arent gonna help you pay for the amps and help with the install.. so screw em lol.
-Jerry