car breaks broke

goingganzo

well i took my car in for servis and my breaks rotors are waarped. this is the seccond time in 30k miles the first time it was at around 12k and now agin. i think i will be geting some cross drilled ventlated rotors with dual piston calapers but i dont know what brand to get.

madmax

A tip I picked up on the way. If one lug is tightened really tight before the others are put on it will warp the rotor every time. Tighten sequentially 1-3-5-2-4 a little at a time. Even mechanics who know all about this often attach a wheel with one lug using an air wrench then place all the others and use a torque wrench to check all 5 never thinking how tight that first one is. Whenever I have someone else take a wheel off I always loosen all 5 lugs then re-tighten myself before driving off. Almost always one lug is so tight I can hardly get it off while the other 4 are fine. This happens no matter who I take it to.
madmax

nadams

Also, make sure that you don't have any "two-footed drivers" driving your car. That's a sure way to get your rotors warped.

Steve@3dai

Rotors don't warp. It's next to impossible. It's pad deposits on your rotors, if you do any hard breaking, and then keep your foot on the pedal, you will cook some pad onto the rotors.

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm

Don't get cross-drilled rotors if you are doing any performance driving. They will almost certainly crack. Slotted is fine, but do not get cross drilled. Get some high performance pads (like Axxis Ultimates, Hawk, or Carbotech Bobcats) and you won't need bigger calipers.

I run stock WRX calipers on the road course and with some good pads, don't have any problems breaking. I have stainless steel lines and ATE Superblue fluid as well.

madmax

Originally posted by Steve@3dai
Rotors don't warp. It's next to impossible.

I've had a few that warped when one lug was way too tight and I did some heavy braking. At least that is what they said when I took them in to have them turned...
madmax

Joel

I agree with steve don't get crossdrilled, slotted are better. If you do get slotted, though be sure the ones you get don't carry the slot to the end of the rotor, some companies do that (usually the cheaper ones) and that weakens the rotor immensly. you need a little "bridge" at the end of the slot.

Steve@3dai

Originally posted by madmax
I've had a few that warped when one lug was way too tight and I did some heavy braking. At least that is what they said when I took them in to have them turned...
madmax

Okay, under braking conditions, rotors don't warp.

But I can see if one lug was too tight. That's why I always do my own brake work, or take it to someone who is a racer (www.soulspeed.com)

wlrandall

I concur with Steve except that rotors can warp from pedal riding and other abuse. I've put a dial indicator on several that were considerably out. Warpage is generally associated with solid, non-vetilated discs, but others can do it as well.

Here's a tip if you're going to drive like I do. As soon as you come to a stop, let off the pedal if possible. The bonding he refers to occurs right as the rotor stops spinning and when the temperature is peaking. If you can minimize the contact time right as you stop, it can reduce the deposit accumulation on the discs.

nadams

Originally posted by wlrandall
except that rotors can warp from pedal riding and other abuse.

... which is what I was getting at

Steve@3dai

Eh, I still disagree with the pedal riding. If you are pedal riding, then the heat builds up. If the heat builds up (and you are using inferior pads) then deposits will happen.

For example.

I was at a track day at Texas Motor Speedway a few months ago. About on the 3rd or 4th lap, my wheel wells were filled with smoke. After the session, my pads were fried, like charbroiled. hahaha This caused pad deposits and abnormal wear on the rotors, and they felt like ****.

But the rotors weren't warped Keep in mind the pads I was using were rated to 900 degrees F! I could have turned the rotors, but I've had a lot of hard hard miles on those rotors, so I decided to replace them.

PhantomOG

steve, i've still got the stock pads and rotors on my subie (~40,000 mi). i don't know if i'm imagining things but it seems when i'm braking from higher speeds the car shakes and makes more noise than before. maybe i need to get new pads.

read-alot

Originally posted by Steve@3dai

I run stock WRX calipers on the road course and with some good pads, don't have any problems breaking. I have stainless steel lines and ATE Superblue fluid as well. [/B]

Steve have you tried Castrol STF fluid ? The stainless lines mentioned are not braided lines are they ?

Sorry for hijacking your thread Gonzo but it looks like these guys have you on the right track.

The reason I asked about the fluid is the boiling temp differences.
Braided lines have a expansion factor that the drivers I worked with never liked.We did have short runs of -3 braided stainless from the frame to the calipers.

Joel

steve, i've still got the stock pads and rotors on my subie (~40,000 mi). i don't know if i'm imagining things but it seems when i'm braking from higher speeds the car shakes and makes more noise than before. maybe i need to get new pads.

The shaking is from the "warping" or pad deposits on the rotors that'd been mentioned. It can be taken care of by having the rotors turned. My subie does it a little, but i'm not worried about yet, i'm tryin to find time to go turn them, i never seem to have time to work on my car anymore . I'm actually succumbing to paying a dealership for my 60k :eek: *smacks own hand and shakes head* it's a shame... lol

So what kind of subie do you have? i have a 2000 Impreza 2.5 RS the top model before the WRX came out. I like my body style best it looks a lot more aggressive with the skinny headlights and 2-door, though i wish i'd gotten 4 door now, such a hassle to have to move the seats so much, lol

PhantomOG

'02 wrx, same as steve 'cept the sedan not the wagon

i wish i had more time to work on my car but i just don't. actually its probably a good thing because i would most definitely end up spending more money on it than i should.

Joel

Ya it's probably better that I don't have time as well. I'd most likely end up hurting myself cursing a whole lot and kicking my car in the end, lol. That's how it ended up with my RX-7's . This thing they call "work", though, seems to take up all my time, what's up with that? lol... *starts reminiscing of his old RX-7* ooh I miss it, lol so many busted up knuckles, sweat, blood, cursing, and tears from excrutiating pain... lol. durn engine had to go and blow up on me, hehe. Now that couldn't be cause it saw redline all day long.. could it?

goingganzo

i hand tork my lugs to 80 foot pounds

read-alot

Is that the recommended torque for the diameter stud on your car ? It just seems a little too much for a street car but I could be wrong cause I dont work on street cars

goingganzo

no that is for the rims if they were cheap steal ones i think you tork them to 120 but i have some alumin 18in 10 spoaks with 225/40/18zr rubber on them

read-alot

Have you looked at your rotors to see if they have what we call heat spots ? Drilled rotors helped that but we threw them away after a couple hours of heavy use.:)

goingganzo

here a few kits i am looking at
http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PFYC&Product_Code=GA4007&Product_Count=5&Category_Code=ALSUSP
http://www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com/products/detail/787/?make=Oldsmobile&model=Alero&year=2001

or just get a good sloted rotor?

Steve@3dai

Originally posted by read-alot
Steve have you tried Castrol STF fluid ? The stainless lines mentioned are not braided lines are they ?

I've tried the Motul RBF600, and now the Superblue. I've never had a case where I actually boiled the fluid.

They are braided, made by Goodridge. They are a HELL of a lot better than the stock rubber parts, so it's less expansion than what I was previously getting.

Joel - Yea, I've got a '02 WRX Wagon. I'm assuming you are familiar with www.nasioc.com

gonzo - heck, get some OEM rotors (if you can find them cheaper than say a slotted) and then a set of *good* brake pads. It's a LOT cheaper than the $1200 kit, and will stop just as fast as those big brake kits. All the big brake kits do really is allow you to do repeated hard stops (like on a track) by dissapating the heat better.

brettw22

Wouldn't those brake kits also help on full size cars and suv's to help their braking? Or would that still be overkill?

brettw22

Wouldn't those brake kits also help on full size cars and suv's to help their braking? Or would that still be overkill?

Steve@3dai

Originally posted by brettw22
Wouldn't those brake kits also help on full size cars and suv's to help their braking? Or would that still be overkill?

Sure, it would help, I'm not saying they are useless They help by dissapating heat, and LOTS of heat is made by big cars and SUVs. Most of the SUVs today are "under braked", they don't have big enough rotors and calipers, and they use weaker pads so there isn't a lot of dust (except the BMW X5, good brakes). But in most cases with passenger cars, to get better braking performance, I would recommend just a good set of pads. For the street (even hard street) that's all that you would need.

Now if you are AutoXing or going to the road course, it's a whole different story. Your brakes are used heavily over, and over, and over again, on every corner, and the heat builds up. The big brake kits help the brakes stay relatively cooler and they will stop more consistantly over multiple braking attempts.