Testing the 2 Channel Waters...

Demiurge

If one were to beging the process of looking to delve into the world of 2 channel audio...where would they begin? I'll be honest...I'm nothing but ignorant when it comes to 2 channel. Why not use the subwoofer? Don't a lot of people like to get good bass from their music? Am I showing my ignorance with those last 2 questions yet?

What would be some good starter speakers (Polk) for a 2 channel system. Would using my current Receiver be OK for this system?

I guess I need to start at square one here because all of my knowledge (limited in this area) is in home theatre right now. Thanks to everyone here. I've just been looking to get more out of my music.

I'll let this post rest for the night and pick it back up in the morning. Hope I have some good suggestions.

pjdami

What would be some good starter speakers (Polk) for a 2 channel system. Would using my current Receiver be OK for this system?

I would decide on which speakers you like first and then get the gear that will work best for those speakers.

For Polk two channel, most suggestions here will be SDAs or LSi depending on your taste. Then you would have to match the surrounding electronics to bring out the best in the gear. SDAs will need a common ground amp. Looks like most people like a tube preamp with the sand amp to drive them. LSis as you know will need high current amplification.

Can you demo SDAs or LSi anywhere?

Good Luck.
Paul

gidrah

For my $.02, I say go vintage or atleast used. It's cheaper and usually built better unless you're willing to spend some money. You may even want to find a decent tech around you that can bring it back to it's glory and even update some of the components, but this shouldn't be too bad.

Look for names like Marantz, Pioneer, Sansui, etc. The big dogs of the 70's. Remember, a model that uses alot of plastic on the outside probably didn't do so well on the inside either.

Your current receiver might work depending on your speaker choice. If it has 2nd zone pre-outs, that'd be a plus.

Most speakers made since the 5.1 boom are geared toward home theater and should be used accordingly IMHO. Bams, booms, and ka-plows are easier to reproduce than sting quartet since they are usually more compressed and it's tough to argue against the accuracy of their reproduction.

Subs usually aren't needed unless you listen to alot of organ or bass heavy hip-hop or techno at home. Also subs can be hard to integrate into music. There's often a mismatch of levels, dynamic, tone, etc. Levels can be calibrated, but dynamics, tone, etc. are all dependant on the sub itself.

Good luck.

pjdami

How could I forget the older Monitor series. The Monitor 7 or 10s would also be a great choice for two channel and they are 8 ohm speakers.

gatemplin

I agree with Gidrah on going vintage for 2 ch power. I use a Sansui integrated amp and have used others. You can get the best bang for the buck with vintage amps.

gidrah

I've used my 10Bs (6 ohm) with the same integrated. It sounded real good. Eventually it ran out of steam (70/ch), whereas my DPL Sony receiver hit a wall of clipped yuck (110/ch) at lower levels.

pjdami

Gidrah,

There must be a typo on Polk's website. The Monitor 10s are listed as 8 ohm under the vintage specs but when I look at the product brochures that Russman posted a few times it says 6 ohms (unless impedence changed from 10A to 10C, etc). The Monitor 7s are listed as 8 ohms in both locations.

Paul

F1nut

Demi,

Point blank, your receiver isn't going to cut it no matter what. There is one thing I know after all these years, receivers are not the way go. That doesn't mean you have to spend large sums of money to get a good set up, it just means there are better choices.

Having said that, can you tell us what your budget would be for this? That will help point you in the right direction.

F1

gidrah

Paul - The impedences may have changed, I don't know. I "believe" the 10Bs are rated at 6, but wouldn't run them on anything that couldn't do 4 very comfortably.

Demi - Are ou planning on setting up another whole rig in a different room? How dedicated are you? Does your receiver have 2nd zone pre-outs? What type of music?

danger boy

go vintage for 2 channel listening. the gear is less expensive... and sounds good. as long as you stay with the leaders of gear from that time.

LIke someone said.. stay away from the plastic crap from the 80's. the vintage gear of the 70's sounds really good. and is usually overbuilt.

It's easier to go seperates if you buy used gear.

mhardy6647

Polk 10's are 6 ohms... due to the twin MR/woofers.

madmax

In my opinion going "2 channel" implies that you want to "Listen" to all the sounds rather than just hearing them. There is a big difference! It may be more of a mindset than anything else. What you start out with doesn't really matter but probably the goal should be (as someone else suggested) to gather a group of components which all works the best together. Less is more. Think of it this way, anything you put in (or add to) the signal path adds noise, degrades the sound and adds confusion.
madmax

steveinaz

If I were to build another 2-channel system, it would be the following:

- Monolithic PA-1 passive/active preamp
- Parasound HCA-1500A Amp
- Cambridge Audio Azur 640C CD Player or Ah! Njoe Toeb
- Polk Lsi 15 speakers

Demiurge

Can you demo SDAs or LSi anywhere?

Unfortunately I can't....I don't know of any stores around here that carry Polk other than Circuit City and American (May be just a Wisconsin store?)

Other than that I also know that they aren't made anymore so that would be tought.

From what i've seen I like the LSi line.....but I'm betting that will cost me more.

Most speakers made since the 5.1 boom are geared toward home theater and should be used accordingly IMHO. Bams, booms, and ka-plows are easier to reproduce than sting quartet since they are usually more compressed and it's tough to argue against the accuracy of their reproduction.

I can understand that one. It makes sense too. I'm guessing GOOD 2 channel audio is a lost art with the new manufacturers?

Subs usually aren't needed unless you listen to alot of organ or bass heavy hip-hop or techno at home. Also subs can be hard to integrate into music. There's often a mismatch of levels, dynamic, tone, etc. Levels can be calibrated, but dynamics, tone, etc. are all dependant on the sub itself.

What if you are a person who likes good bass? I am one of those types. I don't like ultra heavy bass, but will most speakers be able to satisfy the craving without a sub? I don't listen to any rap or techno, but I am a fan of good drumming, so hearing that bass drum thump hard is a good thing.

How could I forget the older Monitor series. The Monitor 7 or 10s would also be a great choice for two channel and they are 8 ohm speakers.

If one were to do some good searching what kind of price would we be looking at. I don't have any budget right now as getting a 2 channel system is in the somewhat distant future. I have other priorities right now.

Point blank, your receiver isn't going to cut it no matter what. There is one thing I know after all these years, receivers are not the way go. That doesn't mean you have to spend large sums of money to get a good set up, it just means there are better choices.

Tube amps I take it?

Demi - Are ou planning on setting up another whole rig in a different room? How dedicated are you? Does your receiver have 2nd zone pre-outs? What type of music?

I'd probably keep it in the same room as my HT...I'm also not looking for anything TOO high end.

Thanks for all the replies guys...this is a learning experience more than anything else. I've learned a lot in the HT department, but don't know a thing about standard 2 channel audio.

nadams

I know people are going to be getting sick of hearing me praise my Monitor 10s, but they are a great speaker for 2ch listening, and don't cost anywhere near that of the SDA series. Obviously, if I had the money, I would get the SDAs. However, these speakers deliver everything that I need, and I listen to a wide range of music from Rush to ELP to Yes to The Moody Blues to stuff like They Might Be Giants, Crystal Method, or even Five Iron Frenzy. I haven't found anything these speakers can't reproduce except for the lowest of lows (and most of that probably has to do with my room placement).

Just a thought....

madmax

If you can buy used and wait for great deals you could do something like a good tube amp or high powered SS amp for around $350, a passive do-nothing preamp for $125, a pair of SDA 1C's or magnapans (or whatever you like) for $600 and a Toshiba 3960 CD for $70. Add some cheap speaker wire and interconnects for $100 and you are well on your way to a real audiophile setup for maybe $1245. Of course you buy what you feel comfortable with at the time. The key to success is to find the best of whichever item you want at the time for the cheapest price. Buying new and going with the component of the day can easily cost you 10 to 20 grand and you won't necessarily have better sound.
madmax

Early B.

I suggest you begin by making the most of your HT system. Start by upgrading the receiver and getting a 2-channel amp for your 70's. Then maybe upgrade your source. Once these upgrades are made, you'll find that 2-channel music listening through your HT system will be much more enjoyable. It still won't sound quite as good as a separate 2-channel system, but this way you get a much better HT system AND better music listening at maybe half the price you'd spend on the 2-channel system alone.

If you decide to get a separate system, start with Lsi7's, a used integrated amp, Cambridge Audio CD player, and a Hsu sub. After purchasing high quality interconnects, speaker cable, speaker stands, stereo rack, power center, etc. you're out at least $1,500 - $1,800.

TroyD

Demi,

If it were ME, I'd consider a pair of Brett's LSi7's. IMO, they go deep enough for most musical applications.

Far as power goes, I have some gear laying around, you seem like a good guy, PM me and I think I could put you in with a decent amp/pre for around 2 bills.

Just something to consider...

BDT

LuSh

A few comments....

Your source is important. Garbage in...Garbage out....you can get some truly great CD players now for a decent price.

steveinaz - suggestion were very good. Also consider a NAD 542, Rotel 1070. Don't buy a used CD player unless you know the seller very very well.

An intergrated amp would be the next logical suggestion. NAD/rotel would be a great starting point. SimAudio, Classe', Bryston would be better.

Speakers. The need for a subwoofer really isn't there anymore. Most people I talk to are use to hearing such poor performances from their amps they have problems understanding why there is usually not a need for subs with most speakers. Any speaker that is positioned 2-3 feet away from the wall and has a decent high current amp connected to it on the front end can usually "boom". A clean 40hz is quite low. Most people just have never heard a clean 40hz.

Demiurge

Originally posted by TroyD
Demi,

If it were ME, I'd consider a pair of Brett's LSi7's. IMO, they go deep enough for most musical applications.

Far as power goes, I have some gear laying around, you seem like a good guy, PM me and I think I could put you in with a decent amp/pre for around 2 bills.

Just something to consider...

BDT

I'll keep that in mind for sure.

It sounds to me like I really need to demo some stuff sometime before I start making decisons. I prefer to stick with Polk just because they've treated me well thus far and my big problem is being able to demo them.

PolkWannabie

Demi,

With something like the LSi7's that Brett has or with good used classic Polk's i.e. any of the more recent SDA's, LS90's etc. there should be almost no risk of losing money in buying a pair and demoing them for awhile in your own environment. If you wind up for some reason not liking them or wanting to try something else you can easily resell them for all or almost all of what you paid for them.

This should also be true of good used preamps / amps etc.

organ

Hi Demi,
IMO, the goal of a 2 channel system is to bring out the emotional impact in music. Forget specs and accuracy, it has to be your type of sound or else you won't be satisfied.

Like others have suggested, start with a good source and then move to integrateds or seperates. I'd go for seperates because if you want to chage the sound, you can replace either the pre or amp. If you get an int unit, you'll have to replace the whole thing.

Maurice