RTi10 very week bass output??

cjruff

I have been listening to these speakers for about 2 months now and have concluded that the bass output is just not there for two channel music with no sub. My components consist of a PSW404 sub, RTi10 mains, FXi30 rear and sides, a CSi5 cener, a Pioneer Elite DV-45A player, and a 110 watts per channel Onkyo TX-NR901 receiver. The receiver and the player are both configured correctly and both have the mains set to large. Overall, I really enjoy the sound of the speakers but I am shocked that the two large woofers on the RTi10s just don't ever seem to add anything to the sound. It allmost seems as if they are just there for show. I really like these speakers and would like to try to work around this problem. Someone else had previously posted "try this experiment ... play a deep bass intensive song like "Pink and Blue" from the Outkast's CD "The Love Below." Play it once with the 10s set to "large" and play it a second time with the 10s (or 8s) set to "small" and supplemented with a mid-priced subwoofer. It will sound like an entirely different song -- the 10s at "large" will vibrate your chest." I don't hear anything even approaching "will vibrate your chest" with this song playing and no sub. I really enjoy listening to stereo music with no sub, I believe it creates a more realistic sound enviroment. Well in the short term I will have to plug in my old Onkyo bookshelf speakers to have some bass in stereo music.
Would an amp help bring out the bass? I am really baffled with these speakers. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

PolkWannabie

That is baffling ... I have the 12's hooked to an Onk 801 and there is more than enough bass coming out of them ...

Dennis Gardner

Something is missing in your setup. This could be a number of things such as:

Speakers too close to wall?

Speakers wired "out of phase" to each other.

Crossovers still kicked in even though you chose "large". My receiver can still set a filter.

Bass management on your DVD player is not allowing bass through.

You may just have to try anything and everything including resetting your receiver to factory defaults.

cjruff

The speakers are four feet from my back wall.
I have checked the polarity of the speakers many times and have run setup and tone disks and no problems including phase problems are apparent.
I am becoming convinced that I need a seperate amp for more power.

Dennis Gardner

More power to your mains will give more bass, but you really should have plenty in 2 ch mode from your Onkyo.

I run my HK AVR 7200 with RTi70s and don't need my sub for 2ch at all. The power should be similar.

gregure

CJRuff,
I agree, something must be wrong. I have the 10's and I run them with a 701, and I find the bass to be the best part of the speakers. I agree, adding a sub definitely gives you lower bass, but for music they stand up well. I listened to the whole Gladiator score, which is very bass heavy, with just the 10's, and I found them to be very good, shaking the room adequately. Can't imagine what the problem is. I hate to ask this, because I doubt you would have done this, because I'm sure they are, but are your gold jumpers still attached? If not, the lower drivers will not work, which could explain the lack of bass. Other than that, there is no reason the Onkyo should not be outputting the full range to your speakers. I genuinely feel something is awry, as these speakers do provide a good amount of bass. Unless you're used to using a big sub that reaches to 20Hz with music, you really should be getting enough from the 10's alone.

cjruff

I did remove the gold jumpers.
I really am shocked myself because everyone seems to agree that these speakers produce powerful bass, although midrange has been the debate, which I tend to think is wonderful. I really am not a bass freak that is why I prefer no sub for two channel music. I have never heard anything anywhere near "shaking the room adequately." Now I really do not listen to too much bass heavy music but I do own the latest Outkast album and I hear the mid bass but absolutely NONE of the low bass. I now this sounds exactly like a setup problem but I assure you that it not, I have been through this again and again. I wonder if there is an issue with the Pioneer 45A that I never noticed before I got the 10s, which were a big upgrade for me. I would buy an expensive amp but I am affraid that may just cover up a larger problem. Thanks

Dennis Gardner

Jumpers are made to stay on the speakers unless you use seperate amps for highs and lows ( Bi-Wiring)

The top posts are for the highs and the bottom posts are for the woofers.


Put them back on.

cjruff

I do have the speakers bi-wired. It seams as if you are describing bi-amping. Anyways, according to the manual, the jumpers should be removed for bi-wiring. The only reason I ever bi-wired was to alleviate this problem of no bass, but bi-wiring has not helped nor worsened the sound.

Dennis Gardner

Sorry for the mixup, I didn't realize you have your 10s bi-wired. I would go back to your receiver or DVD player for a bass management issue.

How is the bass from another source? Is cd, DVD, FM radio all bass lean?

organ

I used to own an Onkyo receiver. Not sure if this applies to your particular model but when listening to music in 2ch(no sub), make sure you set the subwoofer to "NO".

If the subwoofer is set to "YES" with the mains setting on "LARGE", the mains will get a cutoff freq of 80hz. If the mains are set to "SMALL", they get a cutoff freq of 150hz(or somewhere around there). This is for stereo, not multichannel.

So if you're not using the sub for 2ch, set subwoofer to 'no' or else your mains will be filtered even if they're set to 'large'.

Maurice

gregure

With an Onkyo 901, if the speakers are set to "large" there should not be a crossover, as they should be given the full range. I've never had a loss of bass from my 10's in Stereo mode. If you are bi-wiring, then you should be getting the full bass output of the speakers. I simply can't imagine what the problem could be. As I said, these speakers are more than adequate for music. When I first opened these babies up, I was at a friend's house, and he has a pretty small place. We hooked up the 10's to a two-channel Onkyo receiver, and put in the new album by The Darkness. Damn it if the bass didn't fill up that whole place and make everything resonate. I knew I liked them then and there. Again, these speakers should give you what you are looking for (look at the frequency response for goodness sake!). Hope you figure it out.

Dr. Spec

I think Dennis might be onto something. Check the DVD player for bass management issues too.

Normally if you are running digital out, then the BM circuit in the DVD player is disabled.

If you are running analog out, then maybe the player has a BM circuit enabled. My 2900 can do BM for 2 channel stuff, as well as high res formats.

scottnbnj

i didn't notice the size/construction of the room or your speak placement, but as always, speaks closer to corners, walls and solid reflective objects will help reinforce whatever bass your rig produces.

sometimes a small movement (or moving a solid object closer to your speaks or into a different position relative to your speaks) will help focus existing bass output onto your listening position for the better or worse.

)

Early B.

Yeah, sounds like a setup problem. How do your 10's sound with movies? Are you hearing and feeling decent bass with DVDs? If so, then it's gotta be a problem with your setup in two-channel mode. Those 10's along with your sub should be making your teeth chatter.

cjruff

I believe that the problem lies with the Onkyo 901, I notice that the manual states that there is no manner in which to disable the crossover. Even with the subwoofer to off, a crossover must be set. This is shocking for an expensive unit like this.

scottnbnj

i don't know about all this ht stuff, but have you tried set up #1 in your sub manual, running the speaker wires through the sub and using the sub crossover? i think this would at least rule out settings in the onk. being the problem. for the pioneer, maybe swap it out with another dvd or cd player in the house.

it seems weird that your onk. bookshelves give you more bass. did you try hooking them up to the speaker wires now feeding your 10's with the current set up?

might be worth moving the 10's very close into corners of the room to see whether a dramatic placement move makes a noticable difference from 4 feet from the back wall too. it should, even if it doesn't sound great.

and, for the #1 stupid question of the top 10 reasons you do not have bass,... when you say you have no bass, did you take the speaker grilles off and actually touch the drivers to see if they are even powered?

)

Gary Robertson

My Audio buddy got a pair of brand new Paradigms and had a similar problem and for weeks he complained about weak bottom end....--when we found out what it as we both felt like idiots--but here goes--the polarity was backwards on the woofers themselves inside the box-evidentley someone at the factory put the positive wire on the negative terminals and vice versa---but another thing--maybe they just have accidentally weak coils and the woofers need to be replaced-and also like many others in this post said-positioning could be a major factor--if you bought then brand new,,maybe you should take them back and trade then for a newer pair of the same model..and DON'T FORGET HOW IMPORTANT THE CABLES ARE..i've seen cables kill bottom end before..

cjruff

After reading some posts, I have concluded that adding more power may resolve the problem. It seams that floor standing Polks can never get enough power. I have found a great deal on a Parasound HCA-1500A 205 watt per channel powered amp. I will use the Parasound to run the 10s and the Onkyo 901 to run the other 6 channels. If this does not solve the situation there is a real problem, but what the hell you can never go wrong with adding a good stereo amp. Thanks

captain

I 100% agree with cjruff about the bass on the 10's.
I have recently upgraded from the 10's to the 12's. (a long story there).

I found that while I really loved my 10's, in 2 speaker stereo mode from my amp (Denon 3805), I had to beef up the bass by around +3 or +4 and fiddled a little with the amp to really start to hear the bass or anything that even remotely sounds a bit 'boomy' or 'chest pounding' as others have described.
Dont get me wrong the 10's sound great and work well, but I felt like you that they lacked a bit on the bass. And I dont really know why. I am not an expert by any means.

The RTi12's on the other hand seem to be a completely different animal. The sub's on it, work superbly.. You definitely know they are working, definite 'boom'. I didnt change a thing on the amp/other speaker configs when I got my 12's just to see the difference. I ended up reducing the extra bass from the 10 config.

So cjruff sorry to not offer any definite solutions or fixes. I think that the suggestions that people have made sound good to me. Be assured that you are not alone with your opinion..

Cheers.