jl bashing!!

neomagus00
neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
edited July 2004 in Car Subwoofer Talk
okay, my shop just started carrying jl, and i have to say that i'm extremely surprised at what i've heard. let me preface this with a couple facts. first, the jl's i tested and the references i used (eclipse alumimiums) were in different boxes - the jl's were in the jl-recd sealed box, while the eclipses were unfortunately in a generic slot-port box. fine, so we'll ignore small volume differences. second - the tested jl's were about twice as much as the eclipses. third - the xovering and amplification were the same for both.

and my conclusion was... (drumroll, please)... eclipse rules! they out-did the jl's in smoothness, definition, distortion levels, and volume. thinking that, perhaps, my beloved eclipses were just too good for jl's offerings, i redid it with pioneer premiums. same result. and again with planet audio stuff; and again the same result (well, the planet was pretty floppy, but it's more about loud than clean, and it does that really well, so it wasn't strictly the same result).

just thought i'd open up a bit of debate on why this could be... except it's closed to cody, cause we all know what he'll say :D.

oooh, edit: those pioneer premiums? they weren't the loudest or cleanest of the four, but they reached the lowest, no question. not sure why, exactly, maybe the generic box suited them well, but damn, did they drop your stomach when the bassline rolled down...
It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

"Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
Post edited by neomagus00 on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • bknauss
    bknauss Posts: 1,441
    edited July 2004
    So which line of JL subs were they? The comparison doesn't mean jack squat if you were comparing the Eclipses to something like a W3.
    Brian Knauss
    ex-Electrical Engineer for Polk
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • LittleCar_w/12s
    LittleCar_w/12s Posts: 568
    edited July 2004
    were the subs supposed to be the same? same sens. etc? did you look at specs?
    ___________________________
    Total cost of materials: Going up...
    Time spent: Countless Hours...
    Cranking the system, having it quiet outside the car, and sound that takes the rear-view off inside: PRICELESS

    For some things in life, you pay others to do it... For a masterpeice, do it yourself.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited July 2004
    "Generic", you mean prefab??? Or custom...

    Ported vs. Sealed...........obviously ported.......

    I'd compare the alums to the W6......
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2004
    Great, Cody is going to have a hay ride with this one! ;)

    If you used a W0 or W3 then Ive not much to say but Im gonna get on my soapbox if you are claiming the Eclipse beat out the W6 or especially the W7! And we're gonna be hookin' and jabbin' if youre saying some Planet Audio stuff if whoopin' the W6 or 7! LOL
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited July 2004
    if you wouldve read his post...he says the JLs tested were twice as much as the eclipses
    :)
    so doesnt really matter which subs it was...
    theres only 3 things that JL makes that I like
    the w7, the XRs, and their 5 channel
    of those...i would recommend the 5 channel as a good option
    recommend the XRs as close to what you get for your money...theres a few better...a few worse for the money
    and would never even think about telling anyone to get the w7 because its so overpriced its unbelieveable
    see neo...youve just proved to yourself what ive been trying to say all along...
    :)
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited July 2004
    yeah, i thought about including models when i posted, but figured the dollar signs would be enough... :D

    adressing other concerns in order:
    -generic vented = prefab (i couldnt think of the word, ive been gone a while :rolleyes: )
    -also, i purposely tried to take into account the differences between vented and sealed; so, i ignored small to medium volume differences and allowed the vented ones a teensy bit of leeway on smoothness ratings (but the eclipses were still smoother, even in a crappy vented box!)
    -planet audio was way way louder, and that gave them points enough to outweigh the fact that the jl's were in fact somewhat tighter, after i took into account that the planets were designed to be loud and not to be smooth
    -on w7's: the installers all listened to the jl rep's car when they started carrying their stuff, and almost (note almost) all of them agreed that it didn't sound like it was worth the money, which was a lot: a pair of w7's and all the rest of jl's top stuff, installed by jl themselves... note that i've not yet listened to this guy's car, so if i ever get the chance i'll be able to settle this once and for all!!! (yeah, right... :p)
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bknauss
    bknauss Posts: 1,441
    edited July 2004
    Agreed that the W7 is not worth the money. It could possibly be the best all around sub on the market today, but being nearly $1000 at authorized retailers is a terrible price. And if you want to stay with a JL amp, you'll need the 1000/1, also going for about $1000. So for a great amp/sub combo, you're dropping $2000. On the other hand, you could get 4 momo subs, 2 500.1s from an authorized retailer and still pay roughly the same (and possibly less). I'm not saying the Polk stuff would sound as good or be as loud, but its amazing to see what you could get with the same amount of money from another company.

    End of rant :)
    Brian Knauss
    ex-Electrical Engineer for Polk
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited July 2004
    well...you can get mm12s at fry's for 100 bucks...
    in an enclosure...
    so yeah...
    ive never accused JL of making **** products...but their prices are ridiculous
    and i would not call the w7 the best all around sub either
    heard it, heard RE ****, and the adire brahma before...both sounded better and were louder
    the **** was louder than the brahma though...brahma seemed a little bit better in the sq department...but they were running on different amps(well...i never saw the amps...so im guessing they were run off of different amps...) so that mightve been why
    i can almost get 2 brahmas for a single w7...thats crap on JLs part
    anyway...all of you know where i stand on this subject anyway
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2004
    Well in the interest of getting along Ill agree that a lot of JLs stuff is overpriced.

    However, a lot of their stuff is very competitively priced.

    The E series amps are in the $300 range
    The XRs are excellent speakers and are around $375

    Since Im wanting to get along, Ill offer my biggest JL complaint. The power handling on the subs is pathetic. To get a sub that handles 400 watts you have to go to the $300 W6! The $200 W3 only handles 300. I think youre just paying mostly for name when youre talking JL subs.

    Amps and speakers are about right but the subs are a little steep.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited July 2004
    JLs amps are way overpriced too...
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2004
    JL 45x4 - $275...............RF Punch 50x4 - $300 / Alpine 55x4 - $400
    JL 400x1 - $300.............Kicker 400x1 - $350 / Diamond 400x1 - $330
    JL 150x2 - $400.............Polk 150x2 - $400 / Crossfire 150x2 - $475
    JL 75x4 - $475...............Polk 75x4 - $500 / Orion 100x4 - $730
    JL 500x1 - $500.............Polk 500x1 - $450
    JL 1000x1 - $1000.........Xtant 1000x1 - $1000

    These are all reatil prices and what Id pay at my local dealers.

    Im not saying these are bargain prices but they are comparable to what youd expect to pay for most high end amps of roughly the same power. ;)
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited July 2004
    but also take note that you can find almost all of those amps for much cheaper online from authorized dealers
    JL is not one of those that you can find at sounddomain (or places like it)
    no one pays retail...
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited July 2004
    hey, i do - i get a hell of a warranty from my shop if i buy it from them and get them to sign off on my install when im done with it... that's like 5 years for amps and at least 2 for subs, more if it's intended for sq over spl... for example, a 3 year on the eclipses but a 2 on the big planets...
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2004
    Ive always bought retail too. Buying stuff online scares the hell out of me.

    However, I do believe I will be buying my amps thru SoundDomain. Ive not heard any complaints about them and they seem trustworthy, are authorized dealers of everything they sell and have very good prices.

    So I guess Ill be breaking my online-purchasing cherry soon! ;)
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited July 2004
    ah, that's always fun :p...

    you lucky bas***d, you get to spend money on your car... i have to go to college and languish as a mostly-vehicle-less freshman! argh!
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited July 2004
    whats going to happen to your current car?
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • swerve
    swerve Posts: 1,862
    edited July 2004
    Originally posted by MacLeod
    Ive always bought retail too. Buying stuff online scares the hell out of me.

    However, I do believe I will be buying my amps thru SoundDomain. Ive not heard any complaints about them and they seem trustworthy, are authorized dealers of everything they sell and have very good prices.

    So I guess Ill be breaking my online-purchasing cherry soon! ;)
    make sure you do lowest price request... then you get a better price...
    cats.vans.bag...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2004
    Nah, I chickened out! I bought a Crossfire VR404 today from my local shop. However, the list price is $380 and the shops price was $250. The only internet dealer I could find for Crossfire was Acaraudio.com and they list it at $225 but theyre not authorized dealers. So I paid $25 more and bought from an authorized dealer, didnt have to wait on shipping and if anything screws up I have a shop to walk into and hand it over the counter to be dealt with. Cant beat that! :D
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited July 2004
    Originally posted by exalted512
    whats going to happen to your current car?
    -Cody
    can't have a car as a freshman, but i'm gonna keep it in storage nearby (i live ~4 hours away from where i'm goin to school), so it's available, but still, no more daily driving :(...

    mac - congrats on the price cut; too bad about the cherry tho :D...
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited July 2004
    ahh i see
    is that your parents rules?
    i, for one, would die without my truck...
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2004
    Originally posted by neomagus00
    mac - congrats on the price cut; too bad about the cherry tho :D...

    Well I still may yet. Tweeter doesnt carry the MM6 and even if they did they would be $300. SoundDomain has em for $250 with free shipping so I will probably bust my cherry on my speakers. :D
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited July 2004
    Originally posted by exalted512
    ahh i see
    is that your parents rules?
    i, for one, would die without my truck...
    -Cody
    nope, college rules... and i know, it's going to be painful w/o a vehicle... :(

    mac - cool, when do u think you'll upgrade to the mm6?
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2004
    Well I want to get my amps in place first. I should be getting the VR302 in a week or so and then Ill start saving for the speakers.

    However Im not entirely decided on the MM6. My choice changes virtually every day between the MB Quart Reference, MM6, Diamond Audio M661s and the JL Audio XR. I like the Focal Polyglass but its not set up to be bi-amped and plus Im boycotting France! LOL :p

    Ya got the Diamond for the clarity, the MBQ for the detail, Polk for the warmth and the JL for the midbass. I guess it all depends which one is my daily favorite on the day I go to buy my speakers. LOL
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited July 2004
    hehe... or, you could save for longer and step up... say, to focal k2? i like the look/specs of these, even tho there's no decent focal dealers near me... i'm thinking of getting 2 midbasses from them in the near future...
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited July 2004
    what kind of college are you going to?
    they dont have to know that you have a car;)
    we wont tell
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter