What is a "Hybrid" amplifier design?

Mike682

Pioneer is using a hybrid amplifier design in all of thier non-Elite receivers. Just out of curiosity, what is this? Is it part discrete, etc?

gmorris

Just a bit of info for you....

Another meaning for a hybrid design is one that uses tube & solid state electronics.

An example would be Blue Circle amps. They use tubes in the input stage, & solid state (transistors, I think they are called) in the driver stage.

Tube/SS hybrid designs are usually very expensive, so I'm sure this is not what Pioneer is refering to. I would also have to agree that the digital explanation is probably correct.

Mike682

Here's a link to one of the receivers:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4153_60702323_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent

Danny Tse

When Luxman was still available in the States back in the late 80s, it released an integrated amp that featured a tube pre-amp section and a solid-state power amp section. And Luxman did call it "hybrid".

Certainly the Panasonic XR series HT receivers have received the most attention due to its digital amps. When connected via its digital imputs, the Panasonic digital receivers will keep the signal in digital form until the speaker outputs. The digital amps themselves are actually the DACs. Surprisingly, these HT receivers are highly praised for their 2 channel stereo performance. Here's a current thread at Audio Asylum regarding the Panasonic SA-XR50 digital receiver

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/amp/messages/49171.html

As for the mainstream manufacturers, you can add Sherwood Newcastle and Yamaha to the list for digital amp-ed receivers. Yamaha also has a $5,000 digital power amp rated at 500 watts/channel....and no vents on the top!!



As for Pioneer's "hybrid amp", I am thinking that it takes an analog signal and digitalizing it for processing, then convert it back to analog before speaker outputs.

tonyv1

I have an Anthem AMP2 that is a hybrid amp on my stereo rig. It uses two 6922 (impedance buffer and phase splitter; Valvo ECC88) and it's output is Motorola bi-polar transistors. I had a Parasound HCA-1500A before, the Anthem is more musical, but still has the "umph".

Early B.

Below is an excerpt from www.puredigitalaudio.org. Note last sentence...


Digital Amplifiers
Analog music signals have been electronically amplified since the development of the first electrical phonograph in 1925. Originally amplifiers employed vacuum tubes to boost the analog signal to an amplitude (voltage) that could move a loudspeaker cone. A much more recent development was the use of transistors to amplify these tiny signals. Both of these technologies are relatively inefficient and produce heat as a by- product of their design. In order to mass- produce analog amplifiers at a reasonable cost the tolerances of the parts employed are reduced. This results in an increase in signal distortion and degradation and a loss in quality.

The distribution of Digital Audio on CD's removed a very weak link in the audio signal chain and brought the quality of studio master tapes to the home. However the tiny audio signals produced by the DAC (Digital to Analog Converters) in the CD Player were still fed into an analog amplifier in order to be heard.

Now a revolutionary new technology called digital amplifier has come to the audio universe. Digital amplifiers make it possible for the audio signal to stay in its pure digital form through the complete audio signal chain to greatly enhance sound quality. In a pure digital amplifier, (one with a digital input ), there is no need for Digital to Analog Converters in the audio signal path. Digital Amplifiers actually synthesize the desired output signal directly on the speaker terminals, thereby creating a high-powered digital-to-analog converter.

Until very recently, the fully digital amplifier was only possible in laboratories, or in extremely expensive high-end audio systems. Now the technology has been reduced to just one or two chips, dramatically lowering manufacturing costs. In many cases this superior new technology can be incorporated into products even more inexpensively than the archaic linear audio amplifiers that will soon be known as "things of the past."

In case we haven't made ourselves perfectly clear, beware of digital amplifiers that only have analog inputs! These products are actually hybrids and are NOT pure digital.

F1nut

.......than the archaic linear audio amplifiers that will soon be known as "things of the past."

Yeah right! :rolleyes:

Mike682

Ok.....I went to Bust Buy after work to check out the inside of the Pioneer receivers. They had an 812 on display. I took a peek inside the grill and saw the following:

1) An average looking transformer for this price range. Other than that I can't tell what the specs are.

2) Two small 6800uF capacitors...was suprised since most other receivers in this price range are using anywhere from 8200 to 12000.

3) Only two large transistors on a thin to medium thickness heatsink. The transistors were about 3" x 3" each. There was also a small fan inside the receiver on the backside of the heatsinks.

I really did not want to try to pull the receiver out to get a better look but I think I got an idea of what is inside. Plus, a salesman had a puzzled look on his face......

I guess it is safe to say that this hybrid amp generates a lot of heat.

bknauss

Originally posted by Early B.
Below is an excerpt from www.puredigitalaudio.org. Note last sentence...


Digital Amplifiers
Analog music signals have been electronically amplified since the development of the first electrical phonograph in 1925. Originally amplifiers employed vacuum tubes to boost the analog signal to an amplitude (voltage) that could move a loudspeaker cone. A much more recent development was the use of transistors to amplify these tiny signals. Both of these technologies are relatively inefficient and produce heat as a by- product of their design. In order to mass- produce analog amplifiers at a reasonable cost the tolerances of the parts employed are reduced. This results in an increase in signal distortion and degradation and a loss in quality.

The distribution of Digital Audio on CD's removed a very weak link in the audio signal chain and brought the quality of studio master tapes to the home. However the tiny audio signals produced by the DAC (Digital to Analog Converters) in the CD Player were still fed into an analog amplifier in order to be heard.

Now a revolutionary new technology called digital amplifier has come to the audio universe. Digital amplifiers make it possible for the audio signal to stay in its pure digital form through the complete audio signal chain to greatly enhance sound quality. In a pure digital amplifier, (one with a digital input ), there is no need for Digital to Analog Converters in the audio signal path. Digital Amplifiers actually synthesize the desired output signal directly on the speaker terminals, thereby creating a high-powered digital-to-analog converter.

Until very recently, the fully digital amplifier was only possible in laboratories, or in extremely expensive high-end audio systems. Now the technology has been reduced to just one or two chips, dramatically lowering manufacturing costs. In many cases this superior new technology can be incorporated into products even more inexpensively than the archaic linear audio amplifiers that will soon be known as "things of the past."

In case we haven't made ourselves perfectly clear, beware of digital amplifiers that only have analog inputs! These products are actually hybrids and are NOT pure digital.

Actually, the last sentence is sorta wrong. They're most likely reffering to Class D... which is a PWM amp not a digital amp. Class D takes the analog signal, converts it to what looks like digital (pulse width modulated to be technical), and then converts it back to the analog signal.

As for hybrid, its probably Pioneer's way of getting around Tripath's ownership of the phrase "class T". Class T is Class D, but instead of an analog feedback path, its digital. JVC also has a "hybrid" design where there's one analog feedback path and also a digital feedback path at a different point in the circuit.

Hope that made some sense.

dorokusai

When Best Buy starts selling nothing but Digital amplifiers....then I know the masses have overtaken me.

Early B.

When Best Buy starts selling nothing but Digital amplifiers....then I know the masses have overtaken me.

I'll give it 'til Xmas 2005 for that to occur.

gidrah

I'm just glad I never bought an amp from BB or CC. I just wish Target would carry that Sonic Impact in their stores. Now that I would buy.