Should I keep my amp cool?
CH46E
Posts: 3,595
I've got a Krell KAV 2350. 3 channel from thier HT series. I absolutely love it. It is definitely the best amp I've ever owned.
I purchased 2 silent cooling fans. 5 inch or so. They run off a cell phone charger. I place one on top of the tube pre amp, some of the cooling towers on i believe some resistors gets pretty hot. It's the Anthem Pre 2L. Combined with the quad tubes in there, it gets toasty. That was the main reason for the fans. When the system is on I have the fans set to low. Still allows some heat. I did not need the second one but given the size of the heat sinks and how compact the area is in the Krell, I just set the second one top of it. I have them both pulling air out as opposed to pushing in.
As I'm sitting here, I'm wondering if by not letting the Krell warm all the way up.....am I loosing anything? I know there is a thought that a amp sounds better when warmed up. Not sure if that is just for class A. I was told this amp has a pretty decent Class A bias. I have not seen it in writing though.
Thanks! Hope everyone is doing well!
I purchased 2 silent cooling fans. 5 inch or so. They run off a cell phone charger. I place one on top of the tube pre amp, some of the cooling towers on i believe some resistors gets pretty hot. It's the Anthem Pre 2L. Combined with the quad tubes in there, it gets toasty. That was the main reason for the fans. When the system is on I have the fans set to low. Still allows some heat. I did not need the second one but given the size of the heat sinks and how compact the area is in the Krell, I just set the second one top of it. I have them both pulling air out as opposed to pushing in.
As I'm sitting here, I'm wondering if by not letting the Krell warm all the way up.....am I loosing anything? I know there is a thought that a amp sounds better when warmed up. Not sure if that is just for class A. I was told this amp has a pretty decent Class A bias. I have not seen it in writing though.
Thanks! Hope everyone is doing well!
Comments
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Neverrr set the fan directly on top
Blow it to where the air is pushing with the heat sinks
Looking at your photo I would mount the fan vertically to where the air is blowing across the top when the top is in but never in the unit- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
I sit my amp on hockey pucks to give it more air (room) under the case. I stopped using any sort of fan that blows on any of my gear. It just seems to get way more dirt/dust in and around the item.
Convection works good if they have nothing holding the heat in or impeding its escape. -
There was a time I felt I needed fans blowing across my gear, that was many moons ago.
I actually like Ivan’s idea, -
I can see where heat build up would be a concern if one had their amp in a closed cabinet or tight confines in some piece of furniture, but when the amp is out in the open...well, you just bought into fear mongering.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I sit my amp on hockey pucks to give it more air (room) under the case. I stopped using any sort of fan that blows on any of my gear. It just seems to get way more dirt/dust in and around the item.
Convection works good if they have nothing holding the heat in or impeding its escape.
I did notice extra dust in there today. Not bad at all but I did notice it.
I do have these cork with rubber isolation pads that are roughly 2.5 square. I'll dig them out and place the pre amp on them. Unfortunately the Krell has zero inlets underneath. And with the tip of you can see there ain't much on top. Only directly over the heat sinks. But I guess I should think of it as "Krell knows what they are doing"? I'm currently looking for a FBP series Krell that is local.
I will try the pucks under the pre amp and move the WiFi Zen Signature One DAC off the top.
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I sit my amp on hockey pucks to give it more air (room) under the case. I stopped using any sort of fan that blows on any of my gear. It just seems to get way more dirt/dust in and around the item.
Convection works good if they have nothing holding the heat in or impeding its escape.
Ivan, do you use hockey pucks from a specific NHL team or just plain ones?
"Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"Harry / Marietta GA -
Flyers of course!"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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BlueBirdMusic wrote: »I sit my amp on hockey pucks to give it more air (room) under the case. I stopped using any sort of fan that blows on any of my gear. It just seems to get way more dirt/dust in and around the item.
Convection works good if they have nothing holding the heat in or impeding its escape.
Ivan, do you use hockey pucks from a specific NHL team or just plain ones?
To be honest, they're from our last 3 failed semi pro, little league, bankrupt D pro local teams my employer sponsored. At one time I had a 5 gallon bucket full. They come in handy for a multitude of tasks.
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Some of the pucks here are from former Eastern Bloc countries, which makes sense.
Some are from China -- which seems to make somewhat less sense.
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You do not need fans for either of those components since they are out in the open.
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You do not need fans for either of those components since they are out in the open.
Totally agree here. I would move the dac away from the transformer though. Might be fine. Might not be.Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
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There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
Will do. The system is almost dead silent. With my ear Upton the tweeters and mids I can just barley hear a hiss. This might take care of that. Thanks, I did not think of that. -
I have these fans on all four of my amps and my AVP. Before using the fans, the chassis would get pretty warm to the touch, now, they stay nice and cool. You can adjust the fan speed and sure, with all fans going at once, there is noise however behind the glass in the rack, it isn't noticeable. You can get different configurations, mine exhaust the air out the rear of the fan. I have the back door removed from the rack so all the excess heat is blown free from the inside of the rack.
https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-Rear-Exhaust-Receivers-Components/dp/B01LW0G46K?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1
Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
In your situation fans make sense. However, a pretty warm chassis is NO cause for alarm when there is open space around it such as in the OP's case.
The massive heatsinks on one of my integrated amps gets hot enough that you don't want to put your hand on them, but it has plenty of open space around it. I would never consider putting a fan on it.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I have these fans on all four of my amps and my AVP. Before using the fans, the chassis would get pretty warm to the touch, now, they stay nice and cool. You can adjust the fan speed and sure, with all fans going at once, there is noise however behind the glass in the rack, it isn't noticeable. You can get different configurations, mine exhaust the air out the rear of the fan. I have the back door removed from the rack so all the excess heat is blown free from the inside of the rack.
https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-Rear-Exhaust-Receivers-Components/dp/B01LW0G46K?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1
Agree there I have one of these and work great.
HTAVR-Pioneer SC99XPA-DR3 Differential Reference AmpPolk R-700Rear- RT150Side- RT150Center-CSi5Sub-Rythmik audio F25Player- Panasonic DP-UB9000Projector- Optoma CinemaX P2Screen- Silver Ticket Products STR Series 6 120"Audio Room 2ch rig.Cary AE-3, Onkyo M-504, Marantz SA8005, Azur 851NWharfedale - Linton, SVS SB12-NSDMinis Forum PC (streamer) and Panamax MX5105Headphone rig;Schiit JOTUNHEIM and different headphones.Samsung 42" flat screen TV. -
Do you have any way to safely measure sink temps? (Safe as in don't short anything if metal probe used). Best way is to download data sheet of transistor and check temp operating range. You might be surprised to find an operating range of -65 to 150C (302f) or 200C (392f).Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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I had gotten advice from John Curl on biasing my HCA-1000A based on temperature rather than the conservative factory biasing. It is kept cool by mounting it in the basement where the hybrid / electric water heater blows out cold air and keeps the area quite cold.
The little Zamp that runs my sunroom speakers isn’t really blocking the vents.
Stan
Main 2ch:
Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.
HT:
Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60
Other stuff:
Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601 -
A well designed amp that run's hot when properly set-up (ventilated per manufacturer spec) doesn't need external cooling. It's design is robust enough you can set it and forget it.
Full class A amps sound better at operating temp than if you artificially "cool" them down. Fans can introduce noise, but the worst part is blowing dust and other microscopic contaminants inside the amp.
Follow the manufacturer instructions and don't worry about it unless as F1 says, you have them in a smaller space than recommended. Or if you live in a climate where normal room temp is much higher than normal.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
Man mounting gear out of site... Balls of steel right there.
I remember one time back when I had my Odyssey monoblocks, I had stepped outside while the rig was running.
I came back in with smoke coming out of one, the amp basically self destructed.
Can't imagine mounting one under the house, but I understand the appeal especially when they run hot- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
My first AVR wasn't high-end but it wasn't crap either. It was an Onkyo 807, 7.2 receiver, 135wpc x 2ch drvn.
It got so hot it eventually fried the HDMI board. As this was a common "flaw", Onkyo did an out of warranty repair. I've been running fans ever since. The little Onk that could is still going like new.Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
My first AVR wasn't high-end but it wasn't crap either. It was an Onkyo 807, 7.2 receiver, 135wpc x 2ch drvn.
It got so hot it eventually fried the HDMI board. As this was a common "flaw", Onkyo did an out of warranty repair. I've been running fans ever since. The little Onk that could is still going like new.
There you go, a design flaw......sounds like they stood behind it.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
A design flaw is exactly the issue. They put the HDMI board directly above the output stage, which generates a lot of heat.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Man mounting gear out of site... Balls of steel right there.
I remember one time back when I had my Odyssey monoblocks, I had stepped outside while the rig was running.
I came back in with smoke coming out of one, the amp basically self destructed.
Can't imagine mounting one under the house, but I understand the appeal especially when they run hot
I only had that happen with a bad 6L6 Winged =C= power tube. I smelled it before any damage was done. Probably would have red platted and taken out some resistors and caps if I wasn't in the room. I have no issue leaving the room with pre-amp tubes running. Anything with a power tube, I am leery to leave alone any longer than a bathroom break.
My brother had Ted's BAT VK60 mono tube amps and one of the power tube went into run away mode and red plated. Caught it, but not before it took some parts out and let the magic smoke out......lol
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
That magic smoke is expensive.....
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It is kept cool by mounting it in the basement where the hybrid / electric water heater blows out cold air and keeps the area quite cold.
Back in 2009, a Martin Logan guy near me (Burke) did a comparison with some Sanders Sound (formerly InnerSound) ESL speakers. He had a small listening room with mono blocks in the basement like you did. They were out of the way, and he said the room stayed cooler. The walls and ceiling were covered with Owens Corning 703 covered with speaker cloth.
Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
I had multiple motivations in remote locating the amp. There was the cooling, but it also allowed me to significantly shorten the speaker cable runs that go through the basement also. Then there is the cat. This cat (female) has a problem with marking her territory around the house. She got my power conditioner and nearly got the amp. Fortunately, the power conditioner survived. Unfortunately, so did the cat.... for now.Stan
Main 2ch:
Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.
HT:
Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60
Other stuff:
Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601 -
That magic smoke is a b i t c h and never to be wished on anyone!! Admission time.....
I was pretty brand new to this and way more stupid than I am now (did I just say that?).
I was running speaker set up through the Onk and had my cables connected to an external amp for a 5.2 set up but two cables were connected to the AVR (the rear surround) and not connected to anything else. As the AVR went through its paces and came to the rears, it could not complete the signal, so it defaulted to the side surrounds. I thought, that's weird, I'll just run it again, only this time I could actually hear the AVR say, "Okay dumb a$$, check this out", to which my reply was...OH NOOO the magic blue smoke I'd heard about.
That was back in 2010 with my first set up, valuable lesson learned. Since then, it's been research research research before I do anything or make changes.
I may not be a smart man, but I know what magic smoke is....Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
Of course you would...That magic smoke is a b i t c h and never to be wished on anyone!! Admission time.....
I was pretty brand new to this and way more stupid than I am now (did I just say that?).
I was running speaker set up through the Onk and had my cables connected to an external amp for a 5.2 set up but two cables were connected to the AVR (the rear surround) and not connected to anything else. As the AVR went through its paces and came to the rears, it could not complete the signal, so it defaulted to the side surrounds. I thought, that's weird, I'll just run it again, only this time I could actually hear the AVR say, "Okay dumb a$$, check this out", to which my reply was...OH NOOO the magic blue smoke I'd heard about.
That was back in 2010 with my first set up, valuable lesson learned. Since then, it's been research research research before I do anything or make changes.
I may not be a smart man, but I know what magic smoke is....
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Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
I have seen experienced audiophiles arc weld with their amps before. €Hit happens.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
