SDA sound taking some getting used to.

ratpin · February 9

I typically set up my speakers to create a very focused sound stage where the vocal seems to come from a fantom center channel. These SDA's with the wide sound stage are really taking some effort to accept as sounding adequate. The soundstage is so wide that on some tracks the vocals can get lost in the field. As I make adjustments and treat the room, I'm sure it will grow on me. Some songs sound incredible, while other song that I love on my LSIM703's sound very muddy and out of focus compared to what I'm used to. I have multiple setups and the SDA sound so different. The model is 1989 SDA 1C with removed polyswitches, matted baskets and 4x4 dead Matt behind each driver. Anybody else start out questioning the soundstage only to fall in love with their SDA's after a bit? I have CRS setup as well and I feel the same with those. Where they really shine is with live acoustic small studio recordings. I only have about 30 hours listening on them so far.

F1nut · February 9

A fantom, dead center, channel is one of SDA strengths.

How are yours set up and what are you driving them with?

ratpin · February 9

Currently using an Onkyo Integra m-504 until my GFA-565’s get refreshed. It’s a clean 165w per channel. It’ll be double that with the adcom.

nooshinjohn · February 10

ratpin wrote: »

Currently using an Onkyo Integra m-504 until my GFA-565’s get refreshed. It’s a clean 165w per channel. It’ll be double that with the adcom.

How are they set up? What kind of space? Distance from walls? How far back are you sitting from the plane of the speaker? Distance between them and from the side walls? Toed in or not?

Striker2237 · February 10

I experience the opposite with my 1Cs, the center image is so strong I have to dial back the actual center for HT/games. They can totally handle center duty on their own

ratpin · February 10

How are they set up? What kind of space? Distance from walls? How far back are you sitting from the plane of the speaker? Distance between them and from the side walls? Toed in or not?

Room is 17x13x8. Speakers 6” off front wall 9’ apart. 3’ from side walls. No toe in. Listening position is close to an equilateral triangle.

I have several other speakers in this room which I know can smear the signal a bit. This is something that I am willing to live with and it’s not a noticeable issue with my 703’s. Maybe the effect is worse on the SDA’s?

So far I only have acoustic treatment on the ceiling, but I will be spot treating the rest of the room where needed, as I get more seat time in.

ratpin · February 10

So The speakers are actually 8' apart center to center.

BTW, what is "the Vanilla.Comments.Edit permission" lol

VR3 · February 10

I just had a pair of 1c here and I would maybe go closer then 8ft apart, maybe 6 or 7

If they are bone stock they also need to be rebuilt

pitdogg2 · February 10

I agree 8' is a little wide. Plus I'm in the camp that likes absolutely nothing between them. For me, all that stuff in the middle always smeared the soundstage.
My 2.3tl's are 6.5' center to center and 4" off the back wall. They just disappear in the room where it's like the entire back wall is the speaker.

VR3 · February 10

Also I much preferred the 1c to be 1.5 to 2ft from the back wall and closer together

F1nut · February 10

Remove the CRS entirely. Having speakers next to and inside of other speakers is a big no.

Place the 1C about 6 feet apart.

gmcman · February 10

ratpin wrote: »

Listening position is close to an equilateral triangle.

What does "close" mean?

Imagine a bed sheet hanging from the ceiling just in front of your listening position, and when you poke your head into it, you break that plane. One inch can make a difference, experiment and ease your head forward, too much and the sound plane/stage collapses, mainly that phantom center...but is forgiving when you move away from it. You want to be slightly farther away than the distance between the cabinets.

I agree with the dimensions of your room, and even not considering the dimensions the speakers are likely too far apart. Moving them closer also gives the sides more room which is a plus.

Setup is absolutely critical, to the point you eyeball down one speaker along the cabinet, and see if the other speaker follows that plane. I messed around with a few ways and if you want to geek out, one way was an auto-level laser, and I had the beam cross over the middle of the ball socket grill mounts. You can even take a string and wrap it tightly around the speakers to see if they have gap and pick up on one being twisted, but eyeballing them is more accurate IMO.

You want both speakers to be the same vertically, and square to each other. The cleaner the sound, the cleaner the separation of details, further enhancing their ability to work their magic.

If your back wall is close like mine, wall treatments help.

audioluvr · February 10

Mine are 6' 6" apart and love them.

ratpin · February 10

Once I get my mono-blocks back, I will do further testing. I do have some heavy drapes in the works for the back wall. I'm thinking that might make a noticeable difference.

...and yes, I do love my laser level. I use it almost daily for numerous tasks around the house. I pretty much built this entire room with it. Only thing I hired out was drywall (too much dust) . A level 5 smooth wall does not help with reflections but these little details meant a lot to me.

This room is kind of a tribute to the 80's featuring many of the things that I was infatuated with in my youth but had no money to afford.

F1nut · February 10

I like your room, what I see of it. Reminds me of a nightclub/bar I used to hang out in minus the smoke.

Striker2237 · February 11

Get them a little closer together, mine didn't have a good center when I was 8 ft apart but when I moved them to 6ft apart it instantly fixed them and honestly they are best when about 5.5 apart and I'm 12 ft back. They sound better when you are further away than they are apart, the soundstage also becomes wider and deeper with better separation from my experience.

I have mine directly on the back wall since I prefer the increased lower end and I haven't found too much of a difference at all in terms of smearing/detail. The main issue I hear from being directly on the walls is a bunch of reflections that treatments are needed to stop, my left corner also causes a REALLY strong reflection to the point of almost sounding like a 3rd speaker is there if I don't hang stuff up. The largest improvement I did was removing the ancient rear projection TV from between the speakers so they have clear line of fire

The end result I have though is as if my entire back wall is "gone" and sound is just arrayed in a giant shell that extends over the speakers and down the side walls to almost a 90* angle, the speakers are totally invisible and I have images all over the place all positioned exactly where they should be. Only complaint I have is depth could be better but I am choosing not to have as much as would otherwise be possible due to position decisions, I will be fixing that via acoustic panels and my new subwoofer has helped.

Your room looks fantastic btw!

Toolfan66 · February 11

F1nut wrote: »

I like your room, what I see of it. Reminds me of a nightclub/bar I used to hang out in minus the smoke.

Agreed, love the room..

ratpin · February 11

Toolfan66 wrote: »

show previous quotes

F1nut wrote: »

I like your room, what I see of it. Reminds me of a nightclub/bar I used to hang out in minus the smoke.

Agreed, love the room..

Thanks. It’s coming up on a year since I started tearing the room apart. Almost done!

maxward · February 11

The room looks great. I like the up lighting under the bricks. Are the treatments from GIK?

ratpin · February 11

Thanks. The ceiling panels are from acoustimac.

I moved the 1C's in to about 6' apart. Definitely an improvement but still not jaw dropping. I'm wondering if my separate subs are interfering with the SDA effect. I also feel that even with subs off, my center stage is imaging slightly left. I'm thinking maybe that crossover in the right channel is filtering out some of the high frequencies.

I have the room outfitted with Govee smart lighting. It's really cool and can go as wild as a guy could want, although I prefer the more mellow modes. They could be a seriously epilepsy trigger with some of the flashier modes.

If I knew how to post a video I would....

nooshinjohn · February 11

Time to upgrade the crossovers if that has not been addressed yet.

skipshot12 · February 12

Agree with the above stuff along with this…

Anything in between the speakers will affect the center staging image.
And, anything in between the speakers that are more forward than the face of the speakers will have a greater effect on center stage imaging.

Best to have equipment, racks, tv or anything else in between your speakers behind the front face of your Polk’s.
Actually, best case scenario is to have nothing between the speakers.
But as we all know our room and setups are usually a compromise.

Striker2237 · February 12

I'll also add this....I went from my original pair of totally stock SDA1Cs (dad bought them new in 91) to a pair with mills/sonicaps and RD0-194s and the center stage difference was dramatic.

On par with repositioning and removing items from between the speakers. I have had people swap them out for me blind and I can with ease always tell what pair is in use.

The center should be very strong, when I demo my system to people I sometimes have to physically unplug the TV and move my center speaker to prove to them the sound is just magically appearing from between the speakers.

ratpin · February 13

I would be interested in upgrading the crossovers. Is there a clear how-to anywhere online with parts needed that I can follow to upgrade them. The rebuilt ones I see on Ebay are outside what I'm willing to pay. Plus I like DIY projects.

pitdogg2 · February 13

ratpin wrote: »

The rebuilt ones I see on Ebay are outside what I'm willing to pay. Plus I like DIY projects.

Do not waste your time with any of those. You do not want to use non-polar electrolytics on the new XO.

Clarity cap
Sonicap
Vishay-Mills resistors

There is no defined how-to, you could reach out to @VR3

skipshot12 · February 14

Stay away from most all those on eBay unless they’re the offerings for a couple O folks from this forum, vr3 highly recommended.

If you’re on a tight budget I’d recommend at least replacing like for like, the caps, except for the resistors. Vishal/Mills are very reasonable.

It would be a shame taking the time to replace components on the crossover and not upgrade to film caps but, I truly understand.
For sure replace those decade old caps with whatever types you can afford.

If you have any soldering skills it’s actually very easy. The hardest part is accessing the crossover.

If you were to purchase the parts you’re wanting to replace I’m sure there’s folks here that would help you out, including myself.
Ship your crossover and parts…

There are lots of posts on here about upgrading the crossovers, most all Polk’s, get to reading and figure out which way you’d like to go.

Skip

invalid · February 15

I must have gotten lucky when I bought my 6510's from eBay, they were in mint shape and even signed by Matthew Polk.

ratpin · February 15

I would be interested in a parts list for the crossovers. I can and am willing to solder and assemble.

I found this old thread with pictures. Are those repo boards still available?
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/126248/sda-1c-upgrade-complete-with-a-few-pictures?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=sda+upgrade

Toolfan66 · February 15

pitdogg2 wrote: »

show previous quotes

ratpin wrote: »

The rebuilt ones I see on Ebay are outside what I'm willing to pay. Plus I like DIY projects.

Do not waste your time with any of those. You do not want to use non-polar electrolytics on the new XO.

Clarity cap
Sonicap
Vishay-Mills resistors

There is no defined how-to, you could reach out to @VR3

I think he is talking about the ones Trey sells on eBay, that are outside what he’s willing to pay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/156073879896?_skw=polk+sda+1c&itmmeta=01JM55KM6MHRYJA8YRZBWCW2ZT&hash=item2456ba6958:g:sNMAAOSwE5NmblZn&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAAA0FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1dbf/UBHInI/ckxTwkgCeLtqWu5yVc/4iUx/ai8uOSA5cBec4kr4AdcCzFxoNIJt5Ex22yvda7i3A/iSxT3oW3+RDo6TGPwGVnqTCerrncsOpztq/j8LOPV3YI8oIW8ChxkeRi2ZMIBnvzWF9NiW7zECgDWfv3Irb47Yi+QNAYjW97HhMUyLUAhJU3wbSIerFAVLydONR4QfgPrAmBcprmtraLFAe4pLpa/r70IZX4rkZbOcmpkBh/FtrUG+tn5jKc=|tkp:Bk9SR7zDzqWhZQ

With that said, he would be better off talking to VR3 (Trey) here, as I’m sure he could do him a better deal..

VR3 · February 15

My ebay prices are 20% higher due to ebay fees

joebass3 · February 15

ratpin wrote: »

I would be interested in a parts list for the crossovers. I can and am willing to solder and assemble.

I found this old thread with pictures. Are those repo boards still available?
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/126248/sda-1c-upgrade-complete-with-a-few-pictures?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=sda+upgrade

Gimpod boards are NLA. They pop up used occasionally but I wouldn't hold your breath. The original boards are adequate but, with the new capacitors being larger, you will need to do some planning.

Capacitors
2 x 4.4uF
2 x 12uF
2 x 20uF
2 x 40uf

Resistors
2 x .5 Ohm (to replace polyswitches)
2 x 2.7 Ohm
4 x 7.5 Ohm

SDA sound taking some getting used to.

Welcome!

Comments

Welcome!

Welcome!

Quick Links