EV's , who owns one and can share their ownership experience?

mantis

Hello everyone,
As I go to clients homes, I have talks about cars in general and then the EV conversations come up. A few of my clients have had EV's and returned them due to a few factors.

Now mind you, these clients are rich, have garages and have charging in their homes.

So with that being said, they still returned the cars for these reasons.
1- They go to charging stations only to find broken and non working stations. OR there is a line to charge and the range left , there isn't another station close enough to chance it. Now this is when they travel. Local stuff isn't an issues as they charger at home.
2- Distance is not what they were told. The Batteries are suggested to charge to 80%, this reduces the distance . But again I was told that this isn't the biggest deal locally as every day the car goes back in the garage and they plug it in and have a 80% charge ready for the next day.
3- Weather greatly effects the time it takes to charge and effects the distance . It's not so great because the calculated distance keeps changing especially when it's cold out.

These are a few of the things I was told by owners , which is crazy these are the exact same reasons from all my clients who got rid of them and went back to gas cars. Traveling was the biggest issue as they usually have another house hours away and getting to said house takes at least 1 more charge before getting there and it sucks.

What is your experience with your EV?

F1nut

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/199320/the-ev-hate-thread

VR3

Evs are lifestyle products that you drive around in.

Practicality has nothing to do with their day to day performance.

They only make sense if you have other vehicles to take on long trips or if you have other vehicles to drive more than a couple hundred miles in a day etc.

I drive a prius though and after owning a hybrid it would be extremely difficult to go back to a traditional ice vehicle. Hands down one of the best vehicles I've ever owned.

WilliamM2

Clients must not be too rich. I have a couple rich neighbors that have a couple Tesla's model S. They love them, and they are very fast and fun to drive they tell me. They have gas cars for long trips, and they have trucks for hauling.
One also has mint classic muscle car ('67 GTO).

I wouldn't want one as my only vehicle.

mhardy6647

I don't think northern New England, given our climate, housing density, and terrain, is a great place for EVs -- but the locals seem to think otherwise. We do not have one, mostly due to (my) range anxiety.

That said, our daughter & son-in-law have a Tesla 3, and his parents have a Tesla Y. They love them and are very happy with every aspect of owning one. Both families do each have one gas-drinking vehicle as well.

I've driven the 3 several times (mostly doing grandchildren transport ), and other than some abstruse aspects to the user interface (so to speak) I find it quite nice. The 3 is a fairly early one, but its level of fit and finish seem absolutely fine to me, at least on par with contemporary US vehicles.
Elon Musk's... umm... eccentricities aside, I really cannot imagine anyone seriously considering any other than a Tesla, if for no other reason than their charging infrastructure. They're the sine qua non in the US Northeast.

EVs are surprisingly common where we live, probably mostly due to the presence of Dartmouth College and the resulting micro-tech-enclave surrounding it. NH's legacy reputation as a tax haven (I suppose) also brings with it a remarkable concentration of wealth for a generally unassuming part of the world.

Appros of nothing, I'd say that in our neck of the woods, the most common EV brand after Tesla is Rivian (both the SUV and the pickup model are rather common). All others trail far behind, although there are a fair number of Leaves Leafs , eMustangs, and, remarkably, even the electric F-150 Lightnings. Several Lucids kicking around, too, as well as a smattering of all the rest.

Emlyn

Tesla Model Y was the best selling vehicle model worldwide last year with 1.2 million delivered. Big competition now from BYD though, one of the Chinese auto manufacturing companies that has more revenue than Tesla. I'd lease an EV rather than buying if I was interested as they continue to improve.

tonyb

All the things you listed Dan, where some of the same concerns we mentioned years ago when they first started becoming mainstream and which many told us we were nuts too. Yet here we are.

Know what else to ask a Tesla owner ? Ask them about support, about repairs. You get in an accident, they are more prone to total that car even in minor situations. Ask about the turnaround time to get your car fixed. Ask about authorized shops to do the work, locations. Ask about resale value when that Tesla is out of warranty.

I don't have a grudge against EV's, but it's a niche market, like high end audio. It will work for some, in certain lifestyle conditions, but it isn't a replacement for gas cars/trucks. It certainly isn't a safe the planet scenario either, but if it fits your life, knock your socks off.

msg

"Let thy sack be backeth blown"

mantis

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Clients must not be too rich. I have a couple rich neighbors that have a couple Tesla's model S. They love them, and they are very fast and fun to drive they tell me. They have gas cars for long trips, and they have trucks for hauling.
One also has mint classic muscle car ('67 GTO).

I wouldn't want one as my only vehicle.

One lives in a 5 million dollar home and the other a 12 million dollar home. I think they have some money.

Both families have multiple cars. They still both returned the EV's. Both had very nice high end EV's like I said one was a AUDI and the other was a PORSCHE. The Porsche EV was pretty damn cool and stupid fast, it made cool sounds as well.
The Audi was the EV version of the RSQ8 I think would be the gas model.

mantis

One of my reasons of making this thread is the fact that DODGE , who I have loved for decades decided it was a good idea to make the 2024 Charger an EV. As you can see if you go try to find one, it's December and the car is not out on the market yet.

From what I have learned, they have a ton of them built already but they are sitting at holding lots somewhere with electrical issues, poor charging batteries and fitment issues. So they are not being released as scheduled , which by the way has been pushed back I think 2 or 3 times now.

I'm also learning they are trying to get out the in line 6 gas Charger 2025 model, which is also not out yet but might come out before they release the EV, which was supposed to be the other way around.

pitdogg2

Dodge/Chrysler enough said, they've shot themselves in both feet and are losing loyal customers left and right.

Jstas

Real Dad™ has a Tesla.

The kids hate it. They say it's uncomfortable and noisy. They don't take long trips in it with him, he will rent a gas powered vehicle if he has to drive long distances. The kids actually get range anxiety too because when it gets below 25 degrees, they said that the car shows range estimates and that won't make it to our house, a mere 20 miles away.

If you have a short daily commute or a long commute and can charge at your workplace, an EV makes sense for commuting purposes. But, they can't be your only car. Especially a Tesla.

The kids told us their dad's Tesla got hit by a Progressive claim adjuster's car in a parking lot. The irony of it was hilarious but, the impact from the claim adjust backing in to the Tesla in a parking lot broke the driver's side headlight and messed up the front bumper cover taking chunks out of it and crushing the crash bumper underneath. The repair estimate was about $11K, about 10 times what a more conventional vehicle would have cost to repair. It also took 3 months for it to get back to him.

He's also rolling around on relatively bald tires because it eats through rubber about 5 times faster than a regular car. They say it's because of all the torque but that's baloney. His Model S weighs in at 4800 pounds with nobody in it at the minimum. Put 4 occupants in the car at a 150 pound average and you're at 5400 pounds. Get the fancy one with the dual motors and such and they will tip the scales at a porky 5400 pounds. Add 600 pounds for those 4 passengers again and some luggage and you're over 6100 pounds. A Lincoln Navigator or a Chevy Tahoe is lighter than that.

That means a standard passenger car tire will not have a load rating high enough or it will be at it's limit to handle a Tesla. So you either need to buy tires specifically built for electric vehicles or go with a high load rating which means a less comfortable ride and reduced performance in the name of tread stability.

I went and looked up tire prices for a Model S Performance with 22" tires...the cheapest ones I found were $290 each and that's only because the are on sale. Average price $479 each. That means new tires are $2,000 with a 30K mile treadwear rating. That means that if you drive your Tesla 10K miles a year for commuting alone, within 3 years you will need to replace tires. The kids' dad has owned his Tesla for about 6 years now and with the way he drives (like a jerk) and the number of trips he's taken, this is the 3rd set of tires he will have to put on the car in 6 years. That's insane.

He also had a Cybertruck on order and ended up cancelling it because "they weren't being delivered" and about 6 weeks after he cancelled his order, they started showing up around here.

Anyway, they aren't practical and lots of folks widely consider Teslas as the "gold standard" of electric vehicles and they aren't the bees knees with lots of quality issues ranging from broken switch gear to electrical fires and advertised capability hasn't been reality according to many owners.

Dodge...well, FIAT really, has been struggling for a while across all brand names. Initial quality surveys have dropped each year since prior to the plandemic and FIAT has managed to mismanage all of the value out of Dodge and Chrysler to the point where they are now trying to sell off Jeep because it's the only thing of value. That mismanagement has affected everything FIAT owns and if Tesla has so many problems and is the "gold standard" then either every Tesla owner is a Kool-Aid drinking apologist with blinders on or the "gold standard" is more like the "polished brass standard" and if Tesla can't make a decently reliable vehicle then how the hell is a struggling FIAT trying to stop the ship from sinking or being boarded and pillaged going to be able to make one when they can't even make a decent vehicle they've been building for 2 decades now?

If you need to rely on it, an EV is not for you. It's a novelty if you have the spare money laying around.

Also, friends don't let friends buy Dodge.

One other thing, I got a mailer from the local Ford dealer the other day that Ford is not only tacking $10K on the hood of every Lightning EV they sell in addition to the gubment cheez that comes with it but they will also GIVE you a charging system and have it installed in your garage for you. When I read the fine print before throwing that BS out, it said they were also allowing another $1500 for qualified customers that need to have their power service to their house upgraded to be able to handle the charging system. If they gotta do all that just to move some battery powered pickup trucks...that speaks volumes towards the sham that is the EV market.

mrbigbluelight

Here's some Teslas that may be available.

msg

What the...

bcwsrt

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Dodge/Chrysler enough said, they've shot themselves in both feet and are losing loyal customers left and right.

The Stellantis CEO just quit!

A month or so ago, I spoke with a guy who owned many various German vehicles over the years and had just taken delivery of a new Porsche GT3. He didn't elaborate, but said his favorite car of all time was a Tesla Model S. I found that interesting coming from a car guy.

Emlyn

The Model S Plaid version will go from zero to jail in about 8 seconds flat.

motorstereo

I've never owned or plan to own an ev but I did have a thought about making a diy hybrid. I have a small inverter generator that is dead quiet and sips gas. So why not mount a wheelchair carrier on the back of the ev with a similar generator providing extended range and peace of mind? Who knows; it just might completely power the ev. No doubt that little single cylinder motor would be far more fuel efficient than just about any 4 cylinder standard car motor. Just a thought and I'm betting I'm not the first one to think of doing this.

mhardy6647

msg wrote: »

"Let thy sack be backeth blown"

msg

motorstereo wrote: »

I've never owned or plan to own an ev but I did have a thought about making a diy hybrid. I have a small inverter generator that is dead quiet and sips gas. So why not mount a wheelchair carrier on the back of the ev with a similar generator providing extended range and peace of mind? Who knows; it just might completely power the ev. No doubt that little single cylinder motor would be far more fuel efficient than just about any 4 cylinder standard car motor. Just a thought and I'm betting I'm not the first one to think of doing this.

I think you just designed the EV era's Pinto.

mhardy6647

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

Here's some Teslas that may be available.

Pretty sure there are some zoning violations goin' on there -- unless, possibly, the owner's a collector.

Jstas

motorstereo wrote: »

I've never owned or plan to own an ev but I did have a thought about making a diy hybrid. I have a small inverter generator that is dead quiet and sips gas. So why not mount a wheelchair carrier on the back of the ev with a similar generator providing extended range and peace of mind? Who knows; it just might completely power the ev. No doubt that little single cylinder motor would be far more fuel efficient than just about any 4 cylinder standard car motor. Just a thought and I'm betting I'm not the first one to think of doing this.

It's not likely to work. A small generator can't produce enough current at the voltages a Tesla or other EV runs at to be able to keep ahead of the discharge rate.

But, honestly, if you were running a generator to charge batteries and operate an electric motor, you've built yourself a "plug in hybrid".

Hybrids run on the same idea as diesel-electric trains and ships. However, unlike a Prius, a diesel electric train isn't typically capable of direct drive from the diesel engine.

Most EVs run on voltages higher than 12v. They have 12v sub-systems, often run by a 12v standard lead-acid car battery to run standard automotive accessories like lights, computers and radios and window motors and such. It gets charged by the same charging system using stepping transformers and/or inverters to provide the DC voltage and current to charge it. But, the drive systems are run at a MUCH higher voltage. Typically 400VDC to 800VDC and if you take a look at the size of the engine needed to run a generator head capable of reaching 400 VDC level, you'll see why it's not likely to work as a fuel sipping wart hanging off the back of the car.

Here's a diesel generator capable of generating 400VDC:
https://polarpower.com/products/dc-generators/8220i-3ca1/



A 3 cylinder diesel engine like that is about 1.0L-1.5L which is the size of what's in something like a Ford Fiesta or a Hyundai Accent. That massive can hanging off the rear of it? It's about the size of your standard 6 speed automatic transmission that you see in modern cars. That's the generator head and it weight 3 times as much as a transmission, typically. That's the part that generates the electrical power. It is a MASSIVE winding of copper that rotates at relatively high speed for what it is (500+ RPM) inside of a magnet structure. The windings pass through the magnetic fields of the magnets which affects their polarity and that polarity switching creates an alternating current through inductance in the windings. The commutator in the generator...well, a DC Generator is a Dynamo but anyway, the commutator picks off the generated voltage from a half-turn on the generator which then converts it to a direct current.

You can get AC generators for your house and they are typically smaller and run with smaller engines but they use inverters and can get away with it 'cause the power levels are relatively low. But your average, beefy, backup or emergency generator will not be able to push a full 400VDC. Trickle charging an EV with a 30 amp 120V AC generator will work but it will take many hours to replenish. Even if you have a generator capable of handling 240V AC, it will still take forever and it will not recharge anywhere near the rate of discharge when driving.

You would need something like that 3 cylinder diesel and probably close to 1,000 pound winding of copper and magnets to generate enough power to keep ahead of the discharge rate to just keep even. Otherwise, you're pissing in the wind.

invalid

@Jstas you are quite right, you can charge an ev with a gas powered Honda generator, but it would take 3 hours of charging to go 15 miles.

motorstereo

Jstas wrote: »

motorstereo wrote: »

I've never owned or plan to own an ev but I did have a thought about making a diy hybrid. I have a small inverter generator that is dead quiet and sips gas. So why not mount a wheelchair carrier on the back of the ev with a similar generator providing extended range and peace of mind? Who knows; it just might completely power the ev. No doubt that little single cylinder motor would be far more fuel efficient than just about any 4 cylinder standard car motor. Just a thought and I'm betting I'm not the first one to think of doing this.

It's not likely to work. A small generator can't produce enough current at the voltages a Tesla or other EV runs at to be able to keep ahead of the discharge rate.

But, honestly, if you were running a generator to charge batteries and operate an electric motor, you've built yourself a "plug in hybrid".

Hybrids run on the same idea as diesel-electric trains and ships. However, unlike a Prius, a diesel electric train isn't typically capable of direct drive from the diesel engine.

Most EVs run on voltages higher than 12v. They have 12v sub-systems, often run by a 12v standard lead-acid car battery to run standard automotive accessories like lights, computers and radios and window motors and such. It gets charged by the same charging system using stepping transformers and/or inverters to provide the DC voltage and current to charge it. But, the drive systems are run at a MUCH higher voltage. Typically 400VDC to 800VDC and if you take a look at the size of the engine needed to run a generator head capable of reaching 400 VDC level, you'll see why it's not likely to work as a fuel sipping wart hanging off the back of the car.

Here's a diesel generator capable of generating 400VDC:
https://polarpower.com/products/dc-generators/8220i-3ca1/



A 3 cylinder diesel engine like that is about 1.0L-1.5L which is the size of what's in something like a Ford Fiesta or a Hyundai Accent. That massive can hanging off the rear of it? It's about the size of your standard 6 speed automatic transmission that you see in modern cars. That's the generator head and it weight 3 times as much as a transmission, typically. That's the part that generates the electrical power. It is a MASSIVE winding of copper that rotates at relatively high speed for what it is (500+ RPM) inside of a magnet structure. The windings pass through the magnetic fields of the magnets which affects their polarity and that polarity switching creates an alternating current through inductance in the windings. The commutator in the generator...well, a DC Generator is a Dynamo but anyway, the commutator picks off the generated voltage from a half-turn on the generator which then converts it to a direct current.

You can get AC generators for your house and they are typically smaller and run with smaller engines but they use inverters and can get away with it 'cause the power levels are relatively low. But your average, beefy, backup or emergency generator will not be able to push a full 400VDC. Trickle charging an EV with a 30 amp 120V AC generator will work but it will take many hours to replenish. Even if you have a generator capable of handling 240V AC, it will still take forever and it will not recharge anywhere near the rate of discharge when driving.

You would need something like that 3 cylinder diesel and probably close to 1,000 pound winding of copper and magnets to generate enough power to keep ahead of the discharge rate to just keep even. Otherwise, you're pissing in the wind.

Thanks for the detailed explanation of why it won't. I had no idea such high voltage and amperage was required to properly charge an ev battery bank.
And with that there goes my ticket to fame and fortune.

la2vegas

motorstereo wrote: »

Jstas wrote: »

motorstereo wrote: »

I've never owned or plan to own an ev but I did have a thought about making a diy hybrid. I have a small inverter generator that is dead quiet and sips gas. So why not mount a wheelchair carrier on the back of the ev with a similar generator providing extended range and peace of mind? Who knows; it just might completely power the ev. No doubt that little single cylinder motor would be far more fuel efficient than just about any 4 cylinder standard car motor. Just a thought and I'm betting I'm not the first one to think of doing this.

It's not likely to work. A small generator can't produce enough current at the voltages a Tesla or other EV runs at to be able to keep ahead of the discharge rate.

But, honestly, if you were running a generator to charge batteries and operate an electric motor, you've built yourself a "plug in hybrid".

Hybrids run on the same idea as diesel-electric trains and ships. However, unlike a Prius, a diesel electric train isn't typically capable of direct drive from the diesel engine.

Most EVs run on voltages higher than 12v. They have 12v sub-systems, often run by a 12v standard lead-acid car battery to run standard automotive accessories like lights, computers and radios and window motors and such. It gets charged by the same charging system using stepping transformers and/or inverters to provide the DC voltage and current to charge it. But, the drive systems are run at a MUCH higher voltage. Typically 400VDC to 800VDC and if you take a look at the size of the engine needed to run a generator head capable of reaching 400 VDC level, you'll see why it's not likely to work as a fuel sipping wart hanging off the back of the car.

Here's a diesel generator capable of generating 400VDC:
https://polarpower.com/products/dc-generators/8220i-3ca1/



A 3 cylinder diesel engine like that is about 1.0L-1.5L which is the size of what's in something like a Ford Fiesta or a Hyundai Accent. That massive can hanging off the rear of it? It's about the size of your standard 6 speed automatic transmission that you see in modern cars. That's the generator head and it weight 3 times as much as a transmission, typically. That's the part that generates the electrical power. It is a MASSIVE winding of copper that rotates at relatively high speed for what it is (500+ RPM) inside of a magnet structure. The windings pass through the magnetic fields of the magnets which affects their polarity and that polarity switching creates an alternating current through inductance in the windings. The commutator in the generator...well, a DC Generator is a Dynamo but anyway, the commutator picks off the generated voltage from a half-turn on the generator which then converts it to a direct current.

You can get AC generators for your house and they are typically smaller and run with smaller engines but they use inverters and can get away with it 'cause the power levels are relatively low. But your average, beefy, backup or emergency generator will not be able to push a full 400VDC. Trickle charging an EV with a 30 amp 120V AC generator will work but it will take many hours to replenish. Even if you have a generator capable of handling 240V AC, it will still take forever and it will not recharge anywhere near the rate of discharge when driving.

You would need something like that 3 cylinder diesel and probably close to 1,000 pound winding of copper and magnets to generate enough power to keep ahead of the discharge rate to just keep even. Otherwise, you're pissing in the wind.

Thanks for the detailed explanation of why it won't. I had no idea such high voltage and amperage was required to properly charge an ev battery bank.
And with that there goes my ticket to fame and fortune.

Don't be so tough on yourself. You can still go with Plan B.

Topless bartending...

pitdogg2

AsSiMiLaTeD

We have two vehicles, a Tesla Model Y and a Lexus GX. The Tesla gets more use but there is no chance it could become our only vehicle, the tech and infrastructure isn’t there yet.

The Tesla is our daily driver, errands around town and quick trips under 3 hours. I like it because I can plug it in and charge it at home, I never have to go out of my way to put gas in or charge it. Our having an EV has nothing to do with the environment, I’ve not done adequate research to even know if it helps. It’s purely a convenience thing. God I hate going to gas stations, what a waste of time, this lets me skip that. The performance of the Model Y is neat, but not really a factor in our purchasing decision. Reliability wasn’t a major concern because we have the GX which is famous for its reliability, but ours has been 100% reliable, no issues and very little maintenance.

The GX is for mountain driving and road trips. We don’t use it nearly as much, may fill it up 4 or 5 times a year.

That said, if I could keep only one it would be the GX and it’s not even remotely close.