Sda srs 1.2 reversed polarity?!
GreggyG
Posts: 35
It seems that my terminals on the plates may be reversed with the plastic red and black wire nuts. After trying to diagnose some problems with the left channel, and trying to wire up a wonderfully built dreadnought from Trey, he helped me to discover this issue. The nuts may have been installed incorrectly from a previous owner. In which case, the crossover could have gotten messed up.
Here’s the thing…the positive terminal on my plates were positioned on the right, yet with look at the crossover and the internal connections, they were wired backwards. Amd in looking at pics online, I saw the 1.2tl terminals with positive on the left and negative on the right. Mine were reversed….but another pic of another 1.2, not TL, revealed that the positive is supposed to be on the right. And, get this, the manual shows postitive on the left but the pic on the back of my speakers shows positive on the right as mine are marked.
So, the question is, why would they show positive on the right but internally wired as negative on the right?
And, while on the topic, how are the 6.5” drivers supposed to be working? Meaning on the channels, it seems that the vertical line of drivers on the right are mostly the only ones playing and the vertical on the left of each tower are faintly playing?
I’m getting new crossovers from Trey now to redo everything but I’m curious as to what’s going on and how they are supposed to sound. It’s my understanding that the vertical tweeters do not all sound the same down the line so perhaps the 4 drivers in the left and 4 on the right also function that way?
Here’s the thing…the positive terminal on my plates were positioned on the right, yet with look at the crossover and the internal connections, they were wired backwards. Amd in looking at pics online, I saw the 1.2tl terminals with positive on the left and negative on the right. Mine were reversed….but another pic of another 1.2, not TL, revealed that the positive is supposed to be on the right. And, get this, the manual shows postitive on the left but the pic on the back of my speakers shows positive on the right as mine are marked.
So, the question is, why would they show positive on the right but internally wired as negative on the right?
And, while on the topic, how are the 6.5” drivers supposed to be working? Meaning on the channels, it seems that the vertical line of drivers on the right are mostly the only ones playing and the vertical on the left of each tower are faintly playing?
I’m getting new crossovers from Trey now to redo everything but I’m curious as to what’s going on and how they are supposed to sound. It’s my understanding that the vertical tweeters do not all sound the same down the line so perhaps the 4 drivers in the left and 4 on the right also function that way?
Comments
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An update, I have confirmed that regardless of how I plug the speaker wires in at this point, the inside line of drivers are more so "working" producing vocals along with the tweeters. Except my tweeters on the left are not working mostly, and sometimes do. I have "bypassed" the poly switch by connecting a jumper wire on the back of circuit board where the leads are but that hasn't fixed it.
The outside driver's are on I think but faintly. Does that make sense as in is that how they are supposed to work? -
Good time to get your read on:
https://us.v-cdn.net/5021930/uploads/editor/q4/2fd5vrnug8c8.pdf
Outside drivers are SDA. If you play mono music they will not play at all. The more stereo differential in the music, the more they will play.
Are you sure all the tweeters on the L speaker are intermittently not playing? If so, maybe the molex connector might need cleaning. A paper towel inner cardboard tube could help with isolating which tweeter(s), held between your ear and each tweeter.Post edited by Gardenstater onGeorge / NJ
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The tweeters are a progressive point source array. One tweeter plays much louder than the others. Each of the other three tweeters are padded down a little bit more each tweeter.
If they all played the same loudness they blast you out of the room and they would also get in the way (interfere) with each other. -
Thank you all. I am sure that the pic on the back of my speakers says that the positive terminals should be on the right, neg on left. And I know that inside the cross overs are wired to the negative, let's say the yellow wire for reference, is going to the terminal that was indicated as positive. So, they got something wrong.
There was an intermittent issue with all 4 tweeters cutting in and out depending on play time, heat perhaps. Now they are all out. I thought I bypassed the polyswitch but maybe that didn't work or maybe the cross over is fried somewhere. -
Thank you all. I am sure that the pic on the back of my speakers says that the positive terminals should be on the right, neg on left. And I know that inside the cross overs are wired to the negative, let's say the yellow wire for reference, is going to the terminal that was indicated as positive. So, they got something wrong.
There was an intermittent issue with all 4 tweeters cutting in and out depending on play time, heat perhaps. Now they are all out. I thought I bypassed the polyswitch but maybe that didn't work or maybe the cross over is fried somewhere.
Did you happen to catch what I said regarding the molex connector? It will look like a white nylon connector which looks to be a 5 pin one according to the schematic on p. 102 of that SDA Handbook I gave you the link to. Clean that and reconnect and make sure it feels like it is making good firm contact upon insertion. Double check your jumpers for the polyswitch to make sure that you did that so as to rule out the polyswitch.
I've never heard of Polk using anything but RED/Positive binding post on the left and BLACK/Negative binding post on the right. That would just be a polarity issue and wouldn't mean the speakers don't play sounds.
In the SDA Handbook on p. 43 are a series of DC Resistance checks you can do if you have that ability, but they do not test the tweeter circuits because capacitors do not pass DC current.
Also in the handbook p. 46:
Post edited by Gardenstater onGeorge / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
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Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
You are the next person to experience the huge blunder that Polk made when they sold the SDS SRS 1.2 speakers. Just to be sure, you say that sticker on the back of your speakers show positive on right, is that correct?
If so, here's the unbelievable but true fact...Polk was known to use up old stock during their production on a lot of their speakers, so that is a label that was left over from the 1st generation SRS which has the positive on the right! The SRS 1.2 and SRS 1.2TL models have the positive on the left! Why did Polk make that switch? Who knows but in every instance over the years that I've been on this forum, this issue has been brought up and every 1.2 owner has that wrong sticker on the back of their speakers. As a result, they have been unwittingly listening to their speakers out of phase! Not sure if Polk ever knew about this error, but if they did it would have been nice for Polk to notify the dealers and send out a sticker to put over the wrong one and switch the plastic positive and negative nuts to the correct location but alas...SDA SRS 2.3TL's
Silk Audio MS-90-BT integrated tube amp
Yaqin MS-20L integrated tube amp
SDA 2B TL's -
Gardenstater wrote: »Thank you all. I am sure that the pic on the back of my speakers says that the positive terminals should be on the right, neg on left. And I know that inside the cross overs are wired to the negative, let's say the yellow wire for reference, is going to the terminal that was indicated as positive. So, they got something wrong.
There was an intermittent issue with all 4 tweeters cutting in and out depending on play time, heat perhaps. Now they are all out. I thought I bypassed the polyswitch but maybe that didn't work or maybe the cross over is fried somewhere.
Did you happen to catch what I said regarding the molex connector? It will look like a white nylon connector which looks to be a 5 pin one according to the schematic on p. 102 of that SDA Handbook I gave you the link to. Clean that and reconnect and make sure it feels like it is making good firm contact upon insertion. Double check your jumpers for the polyswitch to make sure that you did that so as to rule out the polyswitch.
I've never heard of Polk using anything but RED/Positive binding post on the left and BLACK/Negative binding post on the right. That would just be a polarity issue and wouldn't mean the speakers don't play sounds.
In the SDA Handbook on p. 43 are a series of DC Resistance checks you can do if you have that ability, but they do not test the tweeter circuits because capacitors do not pass DC current.
Also in the handbook p. 46:
Thank you, I'll double check the molex connector. Also, instead of a jumper wire soldered to the back of the leads on the poly switch, should I desolder the poly switch or cut it off and solder the wire on in between?
I meant before the yellow wire, etc, as in from the molex and cross over to the terminal plate on the inside. On the outside, you're right, it's only black and red. But the reds were on the right, consistent with the pic on the back of the speaker. However, the "positive" on the right went to the negative on the molex/cross over. That's why I'm saying I'm confused, I can't quite trust what Polk did. I think. Unless they meant for that in the 1.2 -
michaeljhsda2 wrote: »You are the next person to experience the huge blunder that Polk made when they sold the SDS SRS 1.2 speakers. Just to be sure, you say that sticker on the back of your speakers show positive on right, is that correct?
If so, here's the unbelievable but true fact...Polk was known to use up old stock during their production on a lot of their speakers, so that is a label that was left over from the 1st generation SRS which has the positive on the right! The SRS 1.2 and SRS 1.2TL models have the positive on the left! Why did Polk make that switch? Who knows but in every instance over the years that I've been on this forum, this issue has been brought up and every 1.2 owner has that wrong sticker on the back of their speakers. As a result, they have been unwittingly listening to their speakers out of phase! Not sure if Polk ever knew about this error, but if they did it would have been nice for Polk to notify the dealers and send out a sticker to put over the wrong one and switch the plastic positive and negative nuts to the correct location but alas...
Yes, that's correct. The sticker on the back had positive on the right. And the red plastic cap was installed on the right terminal....but, internally, that side is wired directly to the - negative to the cross over. -
Ok, simply unscrew the plastic nuts and move the 2 red ones to the left and the 2 black ones to the right.
Are you converting your SRS 1.2's to the "TL's"?SDA SRS 2.3TL's
Silk Audio MS-90-BT integrated tube amp
Yaqin MS-20L integrated tube amp
SDA 2B TL's -
Thank you, I'll double check the molex connector. Also, instead of a jumper wire soldered to the back of the leads on the poly switch, should I desolder the poly switch or cut it off and solder the wire on in between?
What you have is fine for now and has ruled out the polyswitch as being the problem.
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
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Study the SDA SRS 1.2 schematic available in this section.
Wire color code for vintage Polk speakers.
Black or white is positive
White or green is negativePolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
michaeljhsda2 wrote: »Ok, simply unscrew the plastic nuts and move the 2 red ones to the left and the 2 black ones to the right.
Are you converting your SRS 1.2's to the "TL's"?
Thank you, I did. I think the reversed polarity must have messed something up in the cross over though. Either way, I'm getting Trey's cross over upgrade, converting to the TL and getting the RD-0198 tweeters too. And, at the same time, dreadnought to run preamp and mono block amps. -
Study the SDA SRS 1.2 schematic available in this section.
Wire color code for vintage Polk speakers.
Black or white is positive
White or green is negative
Did you mean to say
Black or Blue is positive ? -
Oops...yep. My bad.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
michaeljhsda2 wrote: »Ok, simply unscrew the plastic nuts and move the 2 red ones to the left and the 2 black ones to the right.
Are you converting your SRS 1.2's to the "TL's"?
Thank you, I did. I think the reversed polarity must have messed something up in the cross over though. Either way, I'm getting Trey's cross over upgrade, converting to the TL and getting the RD-0198 tweeters too. And, at the same time, dreadnought to run preamp and mono block amps.
Thought you are on a tight budget.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
michaeljhsda2 wrote: »Ok, simply unscrew the plastic nuts and move the 2 red ones to the left and the 2 black ones to the right.
Are you converting your SRS 1.2's to the "TL's"?
Thank you, I did. I think the reversed polarity must have messed something up in the cross over though. Either way, I'm getting Trey's cross over upgrade, converting to the TL and getting the RD-0198 tweeters too. And, at the same time, dreadnought to run preamp and mono block amps.
Thought you are on a tight budget.
I am, but alas, I find myself in a situation where a gift I gave is not working properly and I now have to get it working properly. I'm assuming you are trying to help me by referencing that? Or, you don't like me referencing my financial situation and financial goals since I had just invested in the speakers, the preamp, and amps, with the unexpected of the dreadnought and now the unexpected of the cross overs? -
michaeljhsda2 wrote: »Ok, simply unscrew the plastic nuts and move the 2 red ones to the left and the 2 black ones to the right.
Are you converting your SRS 1.2's to the "TL's"?
Thank you, I did. I think the reversed polarity must have messed something up in the cross over though. Either way, I'm getting Trey's cross over upgrade, converting to the TL and getting the RD-0198 tweeters too. And, at the same time, dreadnought to run preamp and mono block amps.
I think it unlikely that reversing the polarity damaged anything.
Another thing to try, besides the molex connector cleaning, would be the jumpers from the lower binding posts to the uppers. Clean them to make sure they aren't causing the tweeter issue.
Also, check the quick disconnects (fastons) on the tweeters themselves.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
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Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
The tweeters are wired opposite on the 1.2 than the 1.2TL are you looking at the correct schematics?
For the record, I did not read this entire thread…Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎
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The dominant tweeter is T3 on the schematic. It is probably the 2nd from the top, if the tweeters on the schematic are opposite of physical arrangement on the baffle, ie. T1 is closest to the floor. So, use your paper towel tube on that one to hear if you have fixed it or not (but check all of them).
From @decato thread. He did a simulation assuming purely resistive load if I understand correctly.
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/48222/sda-srs-srs-1-2-srs-1-2tl-srs-2-3tl-crossover-design-and-progressive-point-source/p1
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
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T1 is the top tweeter.
T3 is 3rd from top.
Looking at the schematic T2 is second from top and is full range, which is one reason the sound is projected over the listener's head on that model.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Update....It seems that the issue was that the terminals on the terminal plate were a little corroded. And, the jumper wire on the positive side that connects the top terminal to the bottom terminal was a little loose. When toughing it, the tweeters came on. Now that they are back on, now that I have the correct polarity, things are sounding very very nice.
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Update....It seems that the issue was that the terminals on the terminal plate were a little corroded. And, the jumper wire on the positive side that connects the top terminal to the bottom terminal was a little loose. When toughing it, the tweeters came on. Now that they are back on, now that I have the correct polarity, things are sounding very very nice.
You're welcome
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
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iPurifier3
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T1 is the top tweeter.
T3 is 3rd from top.
Looking at the schematic T2 is second from top and is full range, which is one reason the sound is projected over the listener's head on that model.
Well we have a discrepancy then. decato showed T3 was much higher level than all the others and although T2 was full range it was a much lower level. T3 is pretty much full range and has a contour network to make its level rise with frequency. MP did say T1 was closest to the floor and T2 was first in firing order (edit - DK said MP said). I couldn't say not owning them.
Post edited by Gardenstater onGeorge / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
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iPurifier3
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Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
According to 1.2tl wiring diagram, T1 was at the top and T4 closest to the floor so who knows. Decato said firing order at 3kHz for 2.1TL slightly different but T3 still by far the highest; T3, T2, T4, T1 vs T3, T4, T1, T2 for 1.2.
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
Gardenstater wrote: »According to 1.2tl wiring diagram, T1 was at the top and T4 closest to the floor so who knows. Decato said firing order at 3kHz for 2.1TL slightly different but T3 still by far the highest; T3, T2, T4, T1 vs T3, T4, T1, T2 for 1.2.
Thank you. And according your diagram, which tower channel is that, left or right? I'm curious as to if the 6511 is always on the left and 6503 always on the right? Also, what is the main difference between them? And, if anyone has replaced them with the MW 6503 updates for both, any issues there if all 8 are done the same? -
Not close.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Gardenstater wrote: »According to 1.2tl wiring diagram, T1 was at the top and T4 closest to the floor so who knows. Decato said firing order at 3kHz for 2.1TL slightly different but T3 still by far the highest; T3, T2, T4, T1 vs T3, T4, T1, T2 for 1.2.
Thank you. And according your diagram, which tower channel is that, left or right? I'm curious as to if the 6511 is always on the left and 6503 always on the right? Also, what is the main difference between them? And, if anyone has replaced them with the MW 6503 updates for both, any issues there if all 8 are done the same?
You're welcome. That is the L speaker of the 1.2TL. They are mirror images so the dimensional drivers (MW6511) are on the R side on the R speaker, in the 1.2 and 1.2TL. This is all in the SDA Handbook that I gave you the link to.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
Every time I see this thread, I think of the Rush song "Vital Signs".
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Not close.
Thank you, so can you help me to understand how does that perform? As in, what happens if one of my 6511 malfunctions and I get the MW6503 replacement (all that seems to be available)? What happens if all 8 were the MW6503?
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You would barely hear any SDA because the DC resistance of the MW6503 is 6.54 Ohms vs. 3.130 Ohms for the proper MW6511s. Compliance is close and BL slightly more, but not enough to make it work properly and you would barely hear them.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
