Help With Wiring Of The SDA CRS That Has The Two MW6510 And One SL2000 Tweeter

2

Answers

  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,455
    edited July 28
    Benjisan wrote: »
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    Benjisan wrote: »
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    Benjisan wrote: »
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    Benjisan wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Why so quick to dismiss the socket?

    I was able to check the female prongs with a DMM and compare them to the left speaker. The right speaker value in ohms is all over the place and finally reads over limit.

    The left speaker reads a consistent ohms value that is stable. I don’t recall the exact value, but the right speaker is inconsistent and finally reads over limit.

    You should get INF reading on both speakers according to this from the SDA Handbook:



    I don’t have the SDA CRS + crossovers in these units.

    I have the SDA CRS crossovers with the two MW 6510 drivers and the single SL 2000 tweeter per cabinet.

    I do have the testing chart like the one above for the crossovers
    in my units to compare values. I’m not home at the moment but when I return I will take very specific readings and post them here.

    Hmm, well the CRS had 2 MW6503 and 2 SL2000 tweeters. That schematic you posted above says it is for the CRS+ and it is for the Blade/Blade version.



    I understand, but that's the only schematic that comes close to my SDA CRS speakers that has two MW6510 drivers and one SL2000 tweeter.

    Perhaps mine are some iteration of the SDA CRS and CRS+ that is not very well documented in the SDA Handbook.

    I'm attaching some pictures to illustrate what SDA CRS speakers I have below.

    Also I have retested the IC sockets with a different DMM for ohms and here is what the readings are.

    Left speaker = 4.09 M-ohms
    Right speaker 25.19 M-ohms


    You should treat those MOhm resistances (millions of ohms) as INF. As the capacitor charges up from the current from the ohmmeter, the value will go up. I tried a 12uF mylar capacitor and it started out at 3 MOhms and rose from there the longer I kept the probes in place.

    When you read ohms across the Large Blade and Small Blade sockets you are effectively charging up those two paralleled capacitors shown in the schematic you posted.

    Maybe if you discharged the capacitors in both speakers before doing the test they would be closer in value.


    I just discharged the speakers by jumping a resistor across the the + and - speaker terminals and placed a paperclip in the IC socket and let it stand for 5 minutes. I rested and came up with almost the same exact results.

    I tried it with my 2 12uf mylar capacitors from some 1983 7B crossovers and I got very different results (the starting point in Mohms was around 25MOhms in one and 8MOhms in the other) and then when I discharged them both first the starting point was 0.8 MOhms in each and it rose continuously from there the longer I had the probes in place.

    If you have a capacitance meter to check all those 130uF capacitors that would be something I would do. If you have a way to check ESR (effective series resistance) and DF (dissipation factor) even better.

    PS: But please don't miss my point that if you used a more reasonable range on the ohms like 1kOhm, they both would read INF or however your meter expresses that.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,043
    Benjisan wrote: »
    I was able to check the female prongs.

    LANGUAGE!!!



    (So was I.)
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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    Toolfan that will work for me. I will also take some pictures and put a meter on 6510’s to show that they are in good working order and will only need the magnets glued down.

    Gardenstater, I will investigate the crossovers when I get back home later this evening.

    But in all honesty I will put my efforts into the CRS + crossovers and make them a modified version.

    Viking64,

    All language a side, but female prongs are what all good men live for.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,494
    Glue the magnets BEFORE you ship them.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    boston1450 wrote: »
    Not sure this matters. But I have passives from CRS+ pin/blade. FREE u pay shipping. PM if needed

    Hi Boston,

    When you say passives are you talking about the radiators that I will need to do a proper upgrade?
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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    F1nut wrote: »
    Glue the magnets BEFORE you ship them.


    Can absolutely due that if Toolfan wants me to do. He might prefer to glue them himself as not everyone does a neat or tidy job of it.
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,629
    edited July 28
    Benjisan wrote: »
    boston1450 wrote: »
    Not sure this matters. But I have passives from CRS+ pin/blade. FREE u pay shipping. PM if needed

    Hi Boston,

    When you say passives are you talking about the radiators that I will need to do a proper upgrade?

    Yes. Im not sure I understood it earlier. But if your changing things over to CRS+ pin/blade I have a pair of passive radiators with covers. You can have them for free. Just pay shipping.. Others may chime in if you need these.. I may have misunderstood if you would need different passive.
    ..
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,629
    edited July 28
    @Toolfan66 would he be needing the passives from CRS+ ?
    ..
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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    edited July 28
    boston1450 wrote: »
    Benjisan wrote: »
    boston1450 wrote: »
    Not sure this matters. But I have passives from CRS+ pin/blade. FREE u pay shipping. PM if needed

    Hi Boston,

    When you say passives are you talking about the radiators that I will need to do a proper upgrade?

    Yes. Im not sure I understood it earlier. But if your changing things over to CRS+ pin/blade I have a pair of passive radiators with covers. You can have them for free. Just pay shipping.. Others may chime in if you need these.. I may have misunderstood if you would need different passive.
    boston1450 wrote: »
    @Toolfan66 would he be needing the passives from CRS+ ?

    Okay Boston we are on the same page as I will be making my SDA CRS into CRS + units.

    So I will definitely be more than happy to cover the cost of shipping and also give you something on top for your generosity too.

    Can you PM your information on how you would preferred to be paid and what the cost will be and I can send you the funds.
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,629
    No. Just shipping. They are just taking up space. Make sure you need them. I'm leaving camp right now. Give me a couple days to round them up. They are boxed up already. We can work details later. Pls make sure you need them
    ..
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,455
    I just gotta ask :/ In what way are your speakers different from the CRS+ blade/blade?
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    boston1450 wrote: »
    No. Just shipping. They are just taking up space. Make sure you need them. I'm leaving camp right now. Give me a couple days to round them up. They are boxed up already. We can work details later. Pls make sure you need them

    If they are the SW102's then they are what I will need. I just checked and mine are the SW100's
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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    I just gotta ask :/ In what way are your speakers different from the CRS+ blade/blade?

    Gardenstater,

    The only difference I can tell is that I have a speaker box only says SDA CRS on it. Not SDA CRS +

    I have the two MW6510 drivers and one SL2000 tweeter. I have the SW100 radiator and the Blade - Blade IC

    According to the SDA Handbook the SDA CRS is two SL2000 tweeters, two MW6503 drivers and one SW102.

    Also the handbook makes no mention of IC socket type on the SDA CRS.
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,455
    Benjisan wrote: »
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    I just gotta ask :/ In what way are your speakers different from the CRS+ blade/blade?

    Gardenstater,

    The only difference I can tell is that I have a speaker box only says SDA CRS on it. Not SDA CRS +

    I have the two MW6510 drivers and one SL2000 tweeter. I have the SW100 radiator and the Blade - Blade IC

    According to the SDA Handbook the SDA CRS is two SL2000 tweeters, two MW6503 drivers and one SW102.

    Also the handbook makes no mention of IC socket type on the SDA CRS.

    I really wouldn't put too much stock in what the label on the box says. They could have been using up the old CRS labels for the early made CRS+ blade/blade models. I'd bet Christopher Wray's life that you have CRS+ lol.

    The SDA Handbook does actually say that the CRS was blade/blade, in the wiring checkpoints section:

    bk92a2inchgx.jpg


    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    Benjisan wrote: »
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    I would be willing to Trade you two 6511's for your 6510's.

    I did the same modification, my CRS+ were just like yours Blade/Blade twin MW6510's, rebuilt the crossovers, and all.

    Jesse sold me a pair of SW102's, the SW100's would be just fine till you found a pair of 102's..



    Hi Toolfan

    (By the way I love their newest album "Fear Inoculum"

    I would definitely be interested in doing a trade for the pair of MW6511 as long as they test good.
    How do you want to work this out?

    They are good, I will take pictures when I get back home.

    Ship me the 6510’s I ship you the 6511’s, simple.😎 I have a few of them..

    I have plenty of good feedback on the forum here.. Let alone eBay if needed..


    Hi Toolfan,

    I just measured the MW6510 drivers and will attach the pictures below.


    The first driver measured 7.6 ohms on my meter and the second driver measured 7.5 ohms respectively.

    My meter reads 0.4 ohms when both leads are shorted so that will account for the speakers being measured below 8 ohms.

    The first 2 pictures are of driver one and the next 2 pictures are of driver two and the last picture is showing my meter with the test leads shorted together.

    5u97ib4dhw9m.jpg
    0bkhd47com05.jpg


    vvydi0qbnhw3.jpg
    io8v0c3n4miv.jpg


    mxyd70ihqc7t.jpg


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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,494
    You have the CRS+ blade/blade version. Period.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    Benjisan wrote: »
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    I just gotta ask :/ In what way are your speakers different from the CRS+ blade/blade?

    Gardenstater,

    The only difference I can tell is that I have a speaker box only says SDA CRS on it. Not SDA CRS +

    I have the two MW6510 drivers and one SL2000 tweeter. I have the SW100 radiator and the Blade - Blade IC

    According to the SDA Handbook the SDA CRS is two SL2000 tweeters, two MW6503 drivers and one SW102.

    Also the handbook makes no mention of IC socket type on the SDA CRS.

    I really wouldn't put too much stock in what the label on the box says. They could have been using up the old CRS labels for the early made CRS+ blade/blade models. I'd bet Christopher Wray's life that you have CRS+ lol.

    The SDA Handbook does actually say that the CRS was blade/blade, in the wiring checkpoints section:

    bk92a2inchgx.jpg


    I agree as everything that these speakers are built with as far as drivers are concerned and IC socket matches what is listed in the picture below.

    utb9us5n4qf1.png


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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,455
    Alrighty, glad we settled that :D
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,629
    Have you done the woofer magnet shift check ? Even tho they may work. I'd still lightly push in & out EVENLY & gently to make 100% sure they are good..
    ..
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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    F1nut wrote: »
    You have the CRS+ blade/blade version. Period.

    Yes, what he said... :)

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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,629
    As stated. I'd make sure you glue magnets before shipping. Easy job. Go slow & it will look like factory :D
    ..
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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    Alrighty, glad we settled that :D

    I will have a beer now. :D

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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    boston1450 wrote: »
    Have you done the woofer magnet shift check ? Even tho they may work. I'd still lightly push in & out EVENLY & gently to make 100% sure they are good..

    Yes, these drivers are in excellent shape with no voice coil rubbing issues against the magnets when lightly pressing the VC gently up and down.
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,629
    You got yourself a nice fun project going on over there. Where are you located ?
    ..
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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    edited July 28
    boston1450 wrote: »
    You got yourself a nice fun project going on over there. Where are you located ?

    In NJ.

    I will most likely rebuild the original blade - blade crossovers along with the CRS + pin - blade units and have them on hand in case I want to revert things back.

    I also have another set of SDA speakers that I rebuilt the crossovers in that sound phenomenal.
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,220
    Once you go to the CRS+ there is no reason to revert back..

    What are the spots on the drivers??

    These are in mint shape, glued with dynamat strips.. I have probably 10 or so of these..

    gibhfjk32sqc.jpeg
    y919hrr3uk31.jpeg
    ui4cp4ytdcdi.jpeg


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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    edited July 29
    Hi Toolfan,
    These speakers were stored in a ground floor garage on a shelf with the drivers in two separate boxes marked left and right. The cabinets were on the same shelf with the grilles attached.
    The white spots are little dust fuzzes that should come right off with a very soft bristled brush. I only used my breath to blow them off lightly as I wanted to get them up and working before I gave them a cleaning.

    I can clean them off and take some close-up pictures if you would like.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,412
    Original Windex works wonders.
    Spray the microfiber cloth liberally and not the driver. Support driver with free hand.
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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Original Windex works wonders.
    Spray the microfiber cloth liberally and not the driver. Support driver with free hand.

    Didn't have any original Windex, but I borrowed one of my wife's fine artist brush and gave them a thorough cleaning with some canned air to assist.

    The fuzzes came right off.

    Also have some Loctite two part epoxy ready to go if Toolfan wants me to glue them down.

    I will package them very well if he doesn't want me too so they shouldn't experience any magnet shift as the original factory product holding these particular drivers together appears to in very good condition still.


    li0u00d6qqcr.jpg

    tdril2szlxpt.jpg

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  • Benjisan
    Benjisan Posts: 64
    Hi everybody.

    Okay so Toolfan and I have initiated our MW driver swap. (Thank you Toolfan) So now I will be upgrading my CRS + crossovers and have already ordered the replacement film capacitors and resistors from Digi-key.

    I also purchase the forum recommended upgrade tweeters from Midwest Speakers, but just realized that I’m going to need the pin-blade interconnect cable too.

    Just did a search on eBay, Facebook and Craigslist and found nothing available. Did find someone on eBay that had a custom made blade-blade IC. Checked his other items and his recent sold history to see if he also had the pin-blade, but apparently the seller only had the blade-blade IC.

    Just searching the forum I see that a pin-blade cable can be made by using a male RCA connector, but I would prefer a factory cable. If anyone has a spare to sell or knows of where I can source a OEM one could you please let me know.

    I know it is a long shot but I figured it couldn’t hurt to ask.

    TIA
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