Phantom center channel
pearsall001
Posts: 5,087
in Speakers
I was always a huge fan of a dedicated center channel speaker for HT. However my assessment on that has recently changed... enter Maggie 1.7i speakers. All I can say is WHOA! And also in the mix are my two REL T7x subs hooked up as REL recommends for both 2 channel & HT.
REL definitely goes against the grain of setting speakers to small, they recommend large which works in conjunction with how their subs operate. All I can say is the proof is in the pudding & the listening.
Also my room size is conducive to it working so well. I'm sure different sized, configured rooms will negate running a phantom center. Any other phantom users lurking here?
REL definitely goes against the grain of setting speakers to small, they recommend large which works in conjunction with how their subs operate. All I can say is the proof is in the pudding & the listening.
Also my room size is conducive to it working so well. I'm sure different sized, configured rooms will negate running a phantom center. Any other phantom users lurking here?
"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
Comments
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If you are watching by yourself in the center channel a solid 2 channel system will rock it out- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Not doing it currently, but I’ve done it for extended periods in the past. Two superlative speakers will always be better than five or seven mediocre speakers.Alea jacta est!
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Well I must say that hearing how well the 1.7i's perform as a phantom center I can scratch looking for a center speaker off my list."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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Works well for single viewers or, depending upon your “space,” two very friendly viewers.
Back in the 90s, a phantom worked WAY better than any genuine Center I could conjure up. These days I don’t give up any transparency or fluidity w/my current setup. A plus is separate volume & EQ “tweakabilty.”Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
*soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s -
I was a fan of no center speaker, only after I got 2 very good full range left and right. The old set up guide of setting to small and adjusting crossovers never fully satisfied me when using one system for movies and music.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Magnepan speakers have an advantage of being dipole speakers with sound emanating front and rear so reflecting off the front wall plus ideal setup sets a small sweet spot due to toe in and really dials in a big and strong center image. Not all box speakers will have that type of performance and make a center channel speaker unnecessary.
I tried my 1.7is without a center speaker and wasn't disappointed, but wasn't happy with the relative loss of dynamics for home theater when compared to L800s for mains and a L400 for center.
But, I'd be happy with using the 1.7is and the pair of Rel S/510s they pair with for a dual music/movie system if I needed to. -
Magnepan speakers have an advantage of being dipole speakers with sound emanating front and rear so reflecting off the front wall plus ideal setup sets a small sweet spot due to toe in and really dials in a big and strong center image. Not all box speakers will have that type of performance and make a center channel speaker unnecessary.
I tried my 1.7is without a center speaker and wasn't disappointed, but wasn't happy with the relative loss of dynamics for home theater when compared to L800s for mains and a L400 for center.
But, I'd be happy with using the 1.7is and the pair of Rel S/510s they pair with for a dual music/movie system if I needed to.
The added bonus I have is that my room is only 13' wide & with the 1.7i's flanking the 65" TV their isn't a bad seat in the house as far as hearing the center image.
As far as dynamics go I am also running 2 REL T7x subs that also have dual hookups including the .1 LFE that kicks in automatically when TV/movie watching. And I still run a Velo SPL 1200R sub strictly for HT. The combo of the 3 subs has provided plenty of HT dynamics.
You touched a nerve by mentioning the S510...I've been reading up on that model & it is phenomenal.
I'm going to shoot REL an email for their recommendation on the best set-up for both HT/2 channel in my 13x30 room.
I'm thinking maybe just add a HT1205 & keeping the dual T7x's or just running a single S510."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
pearsall001 wrote: »You touched a nerve by mentioning the S510...I've been reading up on that model & it is phenomenal.
I'm going to shoot REL an email for their recommendation on the best set-up for both HT/2 channel in my 13x30 room.
I'm thinking maybe just add a HT1205 & keeping the dual T7x's or just running a single S510.
In my case the choice was between the T9x, S/510, or S/812 in a 24 x 24 ft room moving up from a pair of SVS SB2000s. The S/510 model was the best match in my situation with L800s but I probably would have gone with T/9x with the 1.7i. I have a single S/812 in a two channel system and a pair of those would have been overkill, but more importantly not the best match for the main speakers. I only have to run the S/812 with volume knob at 25 percent to blend properly with the main speakers and provide the right foundation for them.
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I thought about replacing the T7x's with T9x's but that pretty much puts me at same price point of a single S510. Now that S812 you have must be awesome to say the least. I sent REL an email asking for their recommendation. This should be interesting."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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I am not super tech but over 2 years I accumulated Polk T15's, and then a woofer New Samsung TV and got rid of lowest end Sony 5.2 for a Denon S67SH. I cannibalized an old Sony surround Center speaker and it covered dialog for TV and movies. So I broke down finally and hooked up a Polk XT30. So far after a couple of days I really don't hear it. When will that happen? I am thinking Phanthom too.
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Did you run any calibration software on the receiver? Surely you can adjust the center channel volume in the receiver menu.
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pearsall001 wrote: »I was always a huge fan of a dedicated center channel speaker for HT. However my assessment on that has recently changed... enter Maggie 1.7i speakers. All I can say is WHOA! And also in the mix are my two REL T7x subs hooked up as REL recommends for both 2 channel & HT.
REL definitely goes against the grain of setting speakers to small, they recommend large which works in conjunction with how their subs operate. All I can say is the proof is in the pudding & the listening.
Also my room size is conducive to it working so well. I'm sure different sized, configured rooms will negate running a phantom center. Any other phantom users lurking here?
Every system in my house is set up with the goal of achieving the "phantom" center channel as well as having musicians through out the sound stage. The effect, for lack of a better word, is source material specific.
For most systems the rule of thumb is the equilateral triangle, or rather that's where to start. Some systems need a bit of toe in or even toe out, etc.
Gear has to be up to snuff enough to allow the creation of a phantom center too. All the positional tweaking and excellent source material won't overcome poor gear or the better word is gear that doesn't have synergy.
As VR3 stated this is for one person in the "sweet" spot.
H9
P.S. it's especially rewarding to sit in the sweet spot in the dark. Amazing how the speakers can disappear when they are visually no longer fixed in a singular position. One can go down the rabbit hole for hours on end."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I had a phantom center when was using SDA 4.1TL's as the L/R. Then I got a dedicated center. No comparison, so more phantom centers for HT.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
