Acoustical panels - Good or Bad? What say you?

treitz3

Hmmmm, I have mixed feelings/observations. It completely depends...

Where do you stand with regards to acoustical treatment of your room?

Any advice from those who have been there? Any advice against it?

Tips, tricks, advice for the forum?

Please advise and thanks...

Tom

treitz3

I know some of you were expecting glowing reviews.....

Yeah, no.

I'll tell more later...

Tom

F1nut

I installed some for my office rig. Definitely helped.

A good way to tell if panels will help is the clap test. Stand up in your room and clap your hands together with enthusiasm. If you hear a slap echo you should consider adding panels.

bcwsrt

Sorry to hear that, Tom!

I have four bass traps on the front wall (behind the speakers), two on the side wall (other side is open to the rest of the basement) and three “clouds” on the ceiling. I have no back wall, as that area is open, also.

The ones I placed on the walls to begin with worked so well to improve the stereo imaging and tighten up the bass response, that I couldn’t wait to add the clouds. I didn’t notice quite as dramatic a difference with those, but it certainly did not detract from the sound, either. The treatments helped make the corner that my rig is in disappear, sonically, and eqaualized the SQ and imaging from left to right.

I would like to try a couple of diffusers at some point. But, I am very happy with the results that I have with just the bass traps at the moment.

A somewhat dated pic …

displayname

I think room treatments are a tool. If you need a hammer, a screwdriver won’t do much.
And if you need a Phillips head, a flat head might get you there but it won’t be as smooth.

Jetmaker737

It's helped for me. My room has odd angularity and there is a fireplace that is all tile, steel and glass behind my rack. The sound was fatiguing and I think I was getting too much HF bouncing around. I put the gray 2" absorbers between rack and fireplace that you can see in this pic. These have helped to calm things down. I am considering adding a 2" absorber/diffuser to the section of yellow wall above the subwoofer as I think that wall picks up echoes and aims them at the listening position.

VR3

I set up 4 panels when listening as you know.

It really helps in my space but I don't feel the need to add more either. I think it would be very easy to over damp a room

invalid

I need room treatments for my SDA's, but my apogee's sound great with no room treatments

BlueBirdMusic

I have always liked the beauty that @Mike Reeter achieved with his panels. I don't know if the pics below are from his Missouri home or previous location - his room is one of the best.

And speaking of Mike Reeter, where has he been?

I can't say anything about sound improvement - don't have panels.

machone

Panel changed my echo chamber into a great music room. Started out with first reflection panels on each side. Then added bass traps to corners and first reflection panels to the ceiling.

PSOVLSK

I’ve got some DIY panels, but I honestly couldn’t tell you if they are of benefit or not because I’ve had them in the room the whole time my system has been in the room. I should probably take them down someday and see if I notice any difference. Hardwood floors with an 8x10 rug…and a queen size bed😣

But as Harry eluded to, I like the looks regardless of if they’re improving the sound.

Geoff4rfc

bcwsrt wrote: »

Sorry to hear that, Tom!

What's the difference between a Harley rider and a vacuum cleaner??

You can change the dirtbag in the vacuum.

(off topic off topic off topic)

Geoff4rfc

treitz3 wrote: »

Hmmmm, I have mixed feelings/observations. It completely depends...

Please advise and thanks...

Tom

I'll put it to you this way. The first time I experimented with foam panels, my daughter sat down with me to give a listen and halfway into the first song she says, "Papa, it sounds like your wearing headsets".

This is the same girl that was hugging my A9's as I was unboxing them when she was only 4

billbillw

My main listening room is lively, to say the least. It fails the Jesse clap for sure. Problem is, with 18' tall peaks and a pretty large room, I need a hella lota panel coverage. I've toyed with the idea of using a huge tapestry or something...all medieval like...
Hasn't happened yet. For now, I just enjoy my music like I'm in a stadium with various loud speakers hitting me from hundreds of feet apart. Okay, that's probably an exaggeration, but its not a perfect little golden ratio room...

VR3

You need books billbill, lots and lots of books

billbillw

VR3 wrote: »

You need books billbill, lots and lots of books

Ain't got no shelves...
I thought about using those plastic dome shaped things that someone posted awhile back, but adding up the cost of those got high pretty quickly.

VR3

Billbill you need to add some shelves... And books... Lots of both

billbillw

VR3 wrote: »

Billbill you need to add some shelves... And books... Lots of both

I'd need a freaking expensive, tall, dangerous ladder to reach those shelves...
Changing light bulbs in the ceiling fan requires a bit of ingenuity. Last time, I used one of those extension pincers that people use for picking up trash etc. And that was at the top of my little giant ladder fully extended.

VR3

I think you would be amazed at what a few full bookcases can do just in the room

Ikea Billy and local goodwill can maybe get you done for a couple hundies

Geoff4rfc

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

bcwsrt wrote: »

Sorry to hear that, Tom!

What's the difference between a Harley rider and a vacuum cleaner??

You can change the dirtbag in the vacuum.

(off topic off topic off topic)

Disclaimer....this was just a joke I was offered a contract to race a Buell one season and was very excited about it, but the deal fell through at the last minute so I went back to Suzuki.

billbillw

VR3 wrote: »

I think you would be amazed at what a few full bookcases can do just in the room

Ikea Billy and local goodwill can maybe get you done for a couple hundies

Already have an Ikea Billy with a mix of books and photos. The room doesn't really lend itself to more, not to mention the walls rise another 11-12 feet above the Billy...it screams for a huge thick wool tapestry 🤣

Then, we have this as a side wall, those are about 13' tall before the slant begins. A 20x6 flat area for major reflections. I guess I need two huge tapestries.

Eh, I just pretend the artist got carried away with the reverb effect.

invalid

billbillw wrote: »

VR3 wrote: »

Billbill you need to add some shelves... And books... Lots of both

I'd need a freaking expensive, tall, dangerous ladder to reach those shelves...
Changing light bulbs in the ceiling fan requires a bit of ingenuity. Last time, I used one of those extension pincers that people use for picking up trash etc. And that was at the top of my little giant ladder fully extended.

You need a 16' step ladder.

F1nut

billbillw wrote: »

My main listening room is lively, to say the least. It fails the Jesse clap for sure. Problem is, with 18' tall peaks and a pretty large room, I need a hella lota panel coverage. I've toyed with the idea of using a huge tapestry or something...all medieval like...
Hasn't happened yet. For now, I just enjoy my music like I'm in a stadium with various loud speakers hitting me from hundreds of feet apart. Okay, that's probably an exaggeration, but its not a perfect little golden ratio room...

Check out things like fabric wall art and soft wall art for ideas other than tapestries. Also, framed oil paintings, quilts and full length window curtains help.

skrol

I have 3 DIY acoustic panels that I'm using in my office. They are to the sides of my LSi7s and in the middle behind my computer monitors between the speakers. They really tamed the reflections an deadened the room. The ones to the sides widened the sound stage like the speakers were much farther from the walls.

I also tried the panels in my family room where I have the LSi15. The room is very lively (echos like mad) since we had to pull out the carpets (damn cats). It is to the point that I don't really enjoy that system and prefer listening in my office. Placing the panels in various locations definitely helps in the family room but I need more of them.

treitz3

How about a Friday afternoon update?

I have hung 2 the ceiling panels and those were awesome. They shortened the overall height but at the same time? They increased the imaging of certain height aspects, which I consider a great attribute. It's weird to explain what I am talking about but I do like the end result.

They are 6" thick and 1'x4' in length. Both absorption and diffraction. I will say that they were hard to hang properly. Well, let me clarify. They were easy to hang. The measurements to get them exactly where I wanted them were a PIA and it took quite a while to get them right....the first time, without making a mistake and having extra holes or fingerprints on the ceiling. Just one would have been MUCH easier.

I will say this, as I was experimenting with the stand alone side panels, I experimented with placement of these ceiling panels (while I was waiting on the delivery of the cloud brackets). I tried them behind the speakers, in the corners behind the mains. HORRIBLE! I could not for the life of me figure out why this is a recommended thing.

It may very well be my room acoustics but that was the worst. It just sucked the life out of the music and it honestly, sounded horrid.

So, I experimented moving them in a plethora of other locations around the room, prior to install on the ceiling. At the same time, I was experimenting with the big side panels.

I liked the ceiling panels the best when they were in the back corners of the room, at a 45 degree angle. So, armed with that, I kept moving the side panels forward and backward on the side wall. I tried putting them on boxes to lift the height and did the same thing.

I tried them in every position, precisely measured with a laser(s) to assure precision in absobtion and reflection in each case, being leveled each time I moved them. I was looking for consistency and precision with each of these experiments.

Even moved them from at the wall to points that were 4 to 6" away from the wall at all points, listening critically after each move.

I ended up doing something that is completely against the norm and THE most recommended thing out there. That being to have the side panels located at the first reflection point.

After I hung the 2 ceiling panels, I did the same thing all over again with the side panels. This was very time consuming. Did I mention that it was time consuming? Geeez, I didn't realize that it would soak up that much time.

After all was said and done, I took them out of the room because any combination did not work at all. The acoustics in the room just didn't gel with what I was expecting to hear. Honestly, I thought I wasted my money with these side panels but there was something about them that enhanced the music/imaging/spatial locationality cues....even though I wasn't pleased with them in or out of the room.

So, I brought them back into the room and remembered where I preferred the ceiling panels. Now, these panels are just like the ceiling panels but 2x4', instead of 1x4'.

When I placed them back in the rear corners of the room, again, at a 45 degree angle? BAM! Everything came into fruition and the room disappeared. It was now, I could sit back and stop experimenting.

I did forget to mention that the reflection/absorption had already been installed behind the listening position and I immediately liked that. That panel is only an inch thick and just like the rest of the panels and it did wonders, especially seeing as how my ears are only 1.3' from the back wall.

The room is 13x15, with the system on the short wall.

I am now experiencing better acoustics in the room and am no longer disappointed with the time, money and aggravation spent with dialing them into the room.

My only gripe is that of convenience. I have to lock the entry door (no big deal), so no one opens the door and knocks over the big panel. I also have to move the other panel to go to the gentleman's room off to the left. So, listening sessions aren't as "free" as they once were. I actually need to "set it up" for critical listening. All in all?

Minor inconvenience to musical bliss not achieved prior to the panels.

I do know this. There will be no more panels introduced into the room. I believe I have hit that perfect balance. Well, maybe not "perfect", as that is subjective but my ears are finally thanking me.

Tommy like.

Tom

halen

Tom,
Good evening my man. Back when I was more into audio I found sound panels to be a must have. One thing I noticed when there were no sound panels, the sound stage may sound wider but it was actually an artifact of sound reflections. I also experienced rooms that had too many sound panels. The sound was dead.

One thing for sure, you noticed a difference. It could be a negative or positive experience, depending on materials and positioning.

I am aiming towards near field bookies these days that are on flea power amps. I do not have an ideal setup yet. I also only listen at low to low moderate volume these days. So sound reflections would not be as bad.

I have said this before, many times in between, and now, I need to make it out to the Carolinas to visit you. Every time I am about to push the buy button for plane tickets, I freeze. Man, this Tom guy still intimidates me with his technical audio speak when it comes to placement down to the millimeter. I know I will not enjoy your setup because you are gonna math me to death. Hahaha. Kidding my man.

Cheers!

halen

treitz3

When you come, as with any guest, I would simply allow you to listen to the music. Whatever you would like to hear is game (after a few, select demo tracks).

Criticism is always welcome. That's how we learn and what the Carolina group usually does. It's par for the course.

This hobby can be frustrating and enjoyable on so many different levels. Just have fun along the journey!

Tom

bcwsrt

Tom, I'm glad to hear you found some satisfaction with your panels after working with them for a while! I'm curious, though, did you get GIK's (they are from GIK, right?) input on what your room needed ahead of time? They recommended about 2X the panels I could ever fit in my space since I don't think they really looked at the diagram I submitted to them showing no left or rear walls, but otherwise, their placement recommendations were on point.

I think these panels are about like BH5 in a speaker ... a little goes a long way. But, I'm super-happy with what I have at the moment. I'd like to try (no more than) a couple diffusers to see what they bring to the table, but I think I'm right where I need to be in terms of bass traps.

treitz3

Hey, bud. I have looked at their recommendations for other rooms over the years and the first thing that comes into mind is that their recommendations would overdamp the room. Not to mention, they are a sales team. They are in the business to make money and the more panels they sell? The more money they make.

I learned from speaker modifications over the years that overdamping can and will be detrimental to the overall sound. I learned from DR that overdamping a room does the same thing.

When it comes to bass traps? I am kind of on the fence. I will agree that the current panels "did help" but not as much as addressing the shortcomings of the signal, cables and gear did, leading up to this.

Had I done nothing with those aspects prior too? Maybe it would have made a major difference. It did not, in my case with the new panels. So, I chalk that up to possibly being a band-aid to another issue(s) within one's rig.

My first experience with overponderance within this same room (that I thought was a room issue), turned out to be a cable issue. I learned this because I changed out an IC. That was a lower level Transparent cable.

The overponderance that I thought was a room issue turned out to be a cable issue. This has been documented on 3 forums that I can recall off the top of my head probably a decade or more ago.

I climbed that train until I had what I could afford. Their Reference line. That aspect improved until I discovered the new lineup that most all of you know about now.

With the upgrades there, along with differing gear along the way, that overponderance was clearly gone. The acoustical panels helped out a tad bit more but I would venture to say (and I know many people frown on percentages) that it only added a 1% advantage on that front.

I am comfortable with where I am at now, in the room that I am in. The new room (when that ever happens) will have its own challenges.

Currently listening to Leonard Cohen's, "In my secret life". I can't say that I have any complaints. From the frequencies to the imaging to the spacial locationality cues. It is simply a pleasure (and an experience) to listen too.

Tom

treitz3

My apologies. I didn't answer your question. Yes, they are all GIK acoustical panels.

Tom

treitz3

halen wrote: »

One thing I noticed when there were no sound panels, the sound stage may sound wider but it was actually an artifact of sound reflections.

I also experienced rooms that had too many sound panels. The sound was dead.

Completely agree on too many panels. No argument there, whatsoever.

On your other point? The first reflection is something that Is commonly agreed upon for THE first thing to attack with acoustics.

I did not find this to be the case.

While I have no gripes now? If I were to have one? It would be that I lost the, "pinpoint" imaging of the lead singer.

I used to be able to, "see" the lead singer(s). I can still now but they are not as focused and pin-point. Everything seems to be a compromise in this hobby. You can never have it all.

With that said....I do like the changes that have occured since the final placement of the panels. The attributes far outweigh the deficiencies in the whole grand scheme of things.

That said, I would love to have back the pinpoint (to the lip smack) imaging of the lead singer).

Tom