Def Tech BP series upgrades

EndersShadow
EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
edited April 13 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
Picked up a full 5 channel setup of Def Techs from Chicago consisting of:

BP7002 L/R
CLR2500 center
VPX surrounds

Shout-out to @erniejade for the help acquiring the package and @pitdogg2 for looking at a pair of speakers I ultimately passed on.

I’m hoping to upgrade the speakers a bit by:

1. Dynamatting stamped drivers in the L/R/C
2. Upgrading crossovers in the L/R/C, maybe the surrounds
3. Spikes for L/R
4. Build/Buy outriggers for L/R to help make them less likely to tip

I’m not sure how crazy I’m going to go with the crossover upgrades just yet. I have to dig into each speaker and get a idea of the parts.
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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Comments

  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited April 13
    Took the crossover out of the VPX. It appears to be pretty simple so upgrades here might be pretty cheap, if they are even worth doing…

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    Pulling the BP7002 and CLR 2500 crossovers will take a bit more work so won’t have those done today.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,121
    Congrats man! Love my def tech HT setup. Haven't done any upgrades and it still rocks for movies!
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1     Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited April 14
    Yeah they sound great as is but @VR3 convinced me that the xover upgrades are well worth it

    I will be acquiring extra drivers/tweeters/amps because I’m paranoid….
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,610
    Definitive literally, unapologetically uses the cheapest parts inside their speakers. Even Polks cheapest speakers that sell for $100 a pair uses superior parts. Sandy gross just didn't believe in it.

    Definitive sounds good out of the box but there is tremendous gains to be had with even the most basic of part upgrades.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    See @rooftop59…. Trey has stoked my curiosity lol….

    Just need to get picks of xovers to see what we are working with lol
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,121
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    See @rooftop59…. Trey has stoked my curiosity lol….

    Just need to get picks of xovers to see what we are working with lol

    Oh I believe you! I just have no interest in investing the time or money since it's a theater only system. If I'm gonna do any upgrades it would be to the two channel…

    I'll be interested in hearing how it goes!
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1     Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    Understand. I don’t have a “music system” outside my cheap work setup w pro studio monitors, so I figure it’s worth it.

    TVs on 75% of the day since both my wife and I work from home lol
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,610
    edited April 14
    Honestly, as a definitive fan, the tweeter is borderline unlistenable with the parts inside. With my in ceiling I changed the caps and resistors in all of the tweeter networks... The sound is much smoother and cleaner and all of the brightness, hash and sibilance is removed.

    I used the cmr and 50 watt mills on the tweeter and the clarity csa on the woofers but the in ceiling stuff has silly simple crossovers.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited April 22
    Pulled the CLR-2500 apart this morning for pics of the crossover. Did not realize how much interior space was dedicated to the sub. The MTM portion is sealed off from the sub entirely (except for one hole to pass speaker wire through.

    Also the sub amp was separated into two parts with the heatsink separate from the backplate and mounted to an internal brace. The amp on this thing is ridiculously complex so it makes sense why they charge 300 (last I heard) to redo them.

    Going to try and see if I can get the sub dust outline of the fabric otherwise I might have to have it redone because I'd prefer the sub to not be too obvious.

    So now to the pics....

    Crossover

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    Amp

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    The rest

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    Post edited by EndersShadow on
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited April 22
    Some other stuff I did since I last posted:

    1. Emailed Definitive to see if they had service schematics for these they would be willing to share. Since the company has changed hands and these are old in the tooth I'm not holding out my breath.
    2. Purchased 2 BP7002 crossovers to use I can use those for the mods so I wont be down speakers when the crossovers are being modded. That also will leave me with backups to swap in or keep as backups.
    3. Tracked down any kind of documentation I can find for these online (owners manuals, brochures, etc)
    4. Started putting together a list of the crossover values for each speaker. The BP7002 crossover pictures gave me almost all the values I needed, so I'm pretty close.

    Things to track down over time because this stuff is only going to get harder to find:

    1. Spare working amps for the BP7002 and CLR-2500
    2. Spare CLR-2500 crossover
    3. Top plates for BP7002. I found some but nothing thats in good enough condition so for now have passed on all of them
    4. BP-X crossovers (so I can have stock and modded/spares)
    5. Extra mid, tweeter, sub drivers for the BP-7002, CLR-2500, BP-X
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    BP7002 crossover


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    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited April 28
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    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited April 28
    Here are the crossover values best I can tell (I know nothing on this so posting what the parts say). @VR3 any suggestions for these?

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    I see a lot of duplicate part values for the speakers.

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    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,610
    Just depends on the location within the circuits on what to suggest to maximize performance and budget.

    Most likely one or two of those iron cores going to an air coil could yield large benefits. Just tough to make suggestions without knowing the schematic
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    Working on getting a schematic but not sure if I will get one.

    Def Tech support DOES still repair the amps on the BP7002 and CLR-2500, AND has the schematics for them. However it’s unclear if they give me the schematics if it means I CANT send in the amps for service at a later date.

    They DONT have a BPX schematic
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,610
    I honestly wouldn't worry about updating the surrounds
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited April 28
    Was thinking they’d be last, if at all.

    If I list what each of the colors attaches to speaker wise would that get you what you need?
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,610
    No to many parts to know which goes where
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    VR3 wrote: »
    No to many parts to know which goes where

    If I sent you the crossover would you be able to map it out (at least the BP7002)
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,610
    Send me what you have and will see what we can figure out. We can always trace the circuit if definitive won't share
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,987
    Very late to the party…

    Upgrade all the crappy internal wire to:
    1. mids’ to 14 ga (or heavier if you’re brave)
    2. from BP to XO 12 ga.
    3. passive woofers (if applicable) 12 ga

    Just something bigger. No need to get fancy (expensive) unless you’re OCD
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,412
    3. passive woofers (if applicable) 12 ga
    Wait! Passive woofers need 12ga wire...😬😬
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,610
    Honestly for internal wiring, anything over 14 awg really starts to add to the labor of the build and any benefits are negligible, imo
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    lol….. wasn’t really planning to redo all the wiring……. If I did it would be 14 gauge….
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited August 2
    Mixed update…..

    We had an electrical fire scare last night in the house. So I flipped the main circuit. Upon coming back up everything seemed fine. This morning the center channel sub is making noises even when connected to no signal, just power.

    So I’m pulling the amp to see if I can see anything obvious, and might as well pull the crossover.

    Lesson learned, plug the center into the APC H15 like the Left and Right just to try and add another layer of protection.

    So here’s the crossover….

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    And here are some connection pictures during the de-install.

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    And here are pics of the amp boards…

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    And the fuse…

    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,455
    I scanned through your photos and it just crossed my mind that this resistor's body is darker and the solder joints don't look so hot. It's hard from a single photo. Couldn't hurt to check it. Good luck. I've got a subwoofer with some unidentified by me problem so I sympathize.

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    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    Thanks but I don’t have the skills or equipment to check it, so for now my option is have a third party repair it or go through def tech which is about 300 plus shipping both ways….

    The crossover needed to come out either way so I could get a parts list for it.

    For now probably will just leave the sub portion disconnected from the rest and run the speaker without it until I can afford the repair.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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