Tube preamp with tube amp

Clipdat · March 27

Chime in with your experiences if you've ever tried a tube preamp with a tube amp. I'm curious to hear people's thoughts and insights on this.

I know that the tube preamp with a SS power amp is a popular combo with many members. Just wondering if any of us here have also experimented with doubling up and going tube pre into tube amp.

Thanks!

treitz3 · March 27

I used to run like that but tube amps became a PIA to me. Constant attention was the name of the game. Otherwise, sounded great.

Tom

Clipdat · March 27

Are you referring to checking/setting bias, tube replacements, high heat output, or something else?

treitz3 · March 27

Bias shifting, tubes going bad, diagnosing issues, magic smoke, burnt resistors......it wasn't really constant on a daily basis but there was a lot of downtime when all I wanted to do was sit and listen, instead of work on rhe rig.

It all ended when I went back to an SS amplfier. I love the sound of tube amps, I just didn't appreciate the attention they required.

Tom

marvda1 · March 27

What speakers will the amps be driving?

nooshinjohn · March 27

Carver Raven/Mcintosh tube pre is sublime... never going back to a SS amp or pre.

Gerres26 · March 27

I’ve tried this combo. Mixed results overall. When running a tube pre that was very “clean” sounding for lack of better words, maybe even SSish sounding, I thought the results were great. I think the tube power amp added the right amount of extra warmth and spaciousness to my ears.

When I ran a tube preamp that I consider much better than the one above with that same tube amp, I never loved the sound. This pre is very dynamic but i would say a hair warmer than the previous mentioned pre. This sound was just a little too hazy for my liking and lacking just that little bit of bite that I like my set up to have. So I guess overall for me, things can get a little too “tubey” so I went back to the tube pre and SS power amp.

Clipdat · March 27

Thank you for sharing some detailed accounts of your experience.

Clipdat · March 27

marvda1 wrote: »

What speakers will the amps be driving?

Respectfully, I don't see how this is pertinent to what I'm inquiring about in my original post.

nooshinjohn · March 27

Clipdat wrote: »

marvda1 wrote: »

What speakers will the amps be driving?

Respectfully, I don't see how this is pertinent to what I'm inquiring about in my original post.

What kind of response is this to someone wanting to help? Respectfully, it matters a great deal, as the speakers tend to dictate the type of power needed to drive them. A small flea amp might not play well with difficult loads for example.

If you want help, help us help you by letting us know what we need to know or you could always figure things out on your own.

Clipdat · March 27

Try re-reading the original post and kindly let me know where I'm asking for help, or asking about pairing low power tube amps with inefficient speakers? FFS John.

nooshinjohn · March 27

Clipdat wrote: »

Try re-reading the original post and kindly let me know where I'm asking for help, or asking about pairing low power tube amps with inefficient speakers? FFS John.

back to ignore for you.

treitz3 · March 27

Clipdat wrote: »

Are you referring to checking/setting bias, tube replacements, high heat output, or something else?

Sorry, I had to attend to something earlier on when I posted. Following up on the heat generated. I am actually worse off now than when I had the two tube amps and a tubed pre, along with a tubed CDP. Back then, it didn't seem as bad as it is now with a tubed PS, Pre, 2 tubed DAC's and a tubed phono pre. Now, you can tell after about 20 minutes that the system is on. Even with the A/C running, it's quite a bit warmer in the room with the rig on now.

But to answer your inquiry, no. The heat output wasn't ever really a factor.

Tom

maxward · March 27

I went from a tube pre and SS amps (Joule Electra and Odyssey Khartagos) to an all-tube integrated (Eastern Electric M520). So, not separates, but I am very pleased with the current setup. I also replaced the Magneplanars with standmounts that are at least 3 db more efficient. I am more than happy with the modest 24 watts of power. Plus there are three levels of NFB and switchable pentode/ultralinear modes. No issues after about a year.

marvda1 · March 27

Have a nice day

kevhed72 · March 27

What does FFS mean?

bcwsrt · March 27

For F//k’s Sake!

mhardy6647 · March 27

= for eff's sake.

GlennDog · March 27

treitz3 wrote: »

Bias shifting, tubes going bad, diagnosing issues, magic smoke, burnt resistors......it wasn't really constant on a daily basis but there was a lot of downtime when all I wanted to do was sit and listen, instead of work on the rig.

Perhaps I've been lucky, as I've ONLY experienced a tube going bad and/or getting weak. I think if you buy from trusted and experienced sellers . . . your risk goes way, way down

Of course you have to bias from time to time . . . depends on how much time you put on your rig

Biasing my Rogue M-180s takes all of 2 minutes. Tops... for all 8 power tubes . . . there's also 2 drivers and 1 input per mono.

To give you some perspective, I received my hot rodded to Darke monos in December 2020 and I have done Nothing to them, except check bias maybe every other month. Usually, dead nuts on 40mA
My rig is on 6-7 days per week for at least 5 hours per day (summer months a little less, say 5 days a week at 4 hours a pop) . . . the TV rarely goes on

These KT120s are very reliable (same as in John's Carvers, IIRC). A couple of months ago, Parts Connection had a black Friday promo, so I picked up an octet for 25% off

My Cary SLP-05 is equally reliable. Zero biasing on the eight 6SN7s (2 are for head phone that I don't use). Crappy EH are in those 2 positions. Very good quality tubes in the other 6 slots

Knock on wood . . . the system is super stable

SQ is PHENOM . . . NO regrets

Maybe I'm blessed

DID SOMEONE SAY, TUBES ADD SOUL?

DOO IT DREW

GlennDog · March 27

as far as heat generation . .. in my case, it's not an issue 10 months out of the yr.

Summertime CAN be a beotch IF I don't install the A/C window shakers

fwiw, I also have a DAC with 5 additional little heat generators . . . 28 total

mhardy6647 · March 27

Power amps and bias: Cathode bias on the SE 2A3. No fuss, no muss, no bother -- I am just sayin'.

As I've mentioned before, my daily driver 2A3s are about 70 years old, and I bought them used over 20 years ago.

As for preamps: Preamp tubes in a properly designed circuit should last for 10,000 hours or so (in terms of staying in spec), and may be audibly acceptable for far longer. Can one get noisy or otherwise snitty and require replacement? Sure, but all in all preamp circuitry should be very robust and trouble free.

heiney9 · March 27

I have (2) tube integrated amplifiers. One uses a pair of 6SL7's for pre amp section and (4) 6V6 power tubes. Only 16 watts per channel.

Not a lot of 6V6 power tubes better than 50's RCA gray glass tubes. So, no rolling there. Lots of 6SL7 varieties and equvalents. The amp sounds fantastic and I enjoy rolling pre amp tubes. Some day I might be able to justify buying a quad of Bendix 5992's to roll in the place of the RCA 6V6's. But at $300/pr needing (2) pairs that's too steep.

All tubes sounds wonderfully open and a tad euphoric. It depends on the power tubes, IMO. A BAT power amp with Russian tubes sounds closer to solid state than a 6V6 or 6L6 powered amp.

My 2nd integrated uses (1) pr 12AU7 and (1) pr 12AX7 in the per-amp section and a quad of 6L6 power tubes. I've chosen the Winged =C= SED 6L6 from the old St. Petersburg plant in Russia (no longer producing tubes) Mid-late 80's and early 90's tubes are superb. Hard to find now and when you do they are pricey. That amp is 30wpc.

Both amps auto bias the power tubes. Both sound wonderful, but different.

H9

Clipdat · March 28

Nice! Are they commercially available amps or custom made?

Are you still using those regularly, or are they just on standby since you got the XA25?

motorstereo · March 28

I had an Audible Illusions 3 pre and a pair of restored Stromberg Carlson 85 wpc tube monos about 20 years ago. Also paired a Mcintosh mx110 tubed pre with the Strombergs.

I gave it my best shot trying to get hooked on the tube sound but it didn't happen. I do still keep a yaqin mc100 tube integrated around just in case I get the urge to revisit tubes although I've been lax about using it.

Kudos to the guys that do have these wonderful looking tubed set ups so I can live vicariously through your rigs.

heiney9 · March 28

Clipdat wrote: »

Nice! Are they commercially available amps or custom made?

Are you still using those regularly, or are they just on standby since you got the XA25?

They are commercial amps. RIght now they are idle. I swap them in and out of the office rig.

Here's one of them mine is older w/o bluetooth. But looks identical

https://www.amazon.com/Vacuum-Integrated-Amplifier-Bluetooth-Headphone/dp/B079PXDBD9/ref=sr_1_1?crid=Z27TN823CIUK&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.tc88wuXhvn2JK2tRr-M9uERmj9DhtrK-4GboqJB5k3I.CXjHqBf67IJk2aRBXkS1g2DmFJkMjP6-q8UJRdhSQS4&dib_tag=se&keywords=dared+i30&qid=1711626324&sprefix=dared+i30,aps,189&sr=8-1

I also forgot about this little beauty. What a workhorse and it sounds damn good. Uses ECC85 tubes and has a mosfet output. These were all the rage 10-15 years ago. Sounds way better than it should. I roll tubes including some 60's and 70's era Russian tubes.....Mine again is older w/o bluetooth and is silver rather than the Rose Gold.

https://www.amazon.com/Dared-Amplifier-Bluetooth-Multi-Channel-Integrated/dp/B07GKZNJV3/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?crid=Z27TN823CIUK&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.RSjImWer9Zumz80hr_9njoi_b6RD8jM7L9XPDCYSCZL1sPCtzV6UW_AtLHtaoCw0.s5iva2c7QzOaPqzcp6872GjdaFjeb-MjVhQBwoDshg4&dib_tag=se&keywords=dared+i30&qid=1711626520&sprefix=dared+i30,aps,189&sr=8-1-fkmr0

Finally this one is the 6sl7 and 6V6 based integrated. Rolling various 6sl7's really makes a difference. Mine has the Auricaps but black plastic sides rather than wood. The lights are gimmicky, but it really does sound lush and open.

https://6moons.com/audioreviews/dared2/vp16.html

I don't listen to them as often as I used to. But I don't want to part with them either. I'll have more space to experiment in the new house.

H9

heiney9 · March 28

The above integrated amps were used to drive my modded 5B's in a small office room rig. None play super loud. But the sound they put out is exquisite at lower to normal listening levels. I will definitely be getting reacquainted with these in the new house.

I have not tried them on my RT25i's or R200's yet.

H9

heiney9 · March 28

I don't think there is a right or wrong way to pair gear. You might need to do more tweaking with all tubes. The only possible downside is the cost of rolling all those tubes. I am a HUGE believer in rolling tubes. There are lots a very good tubes made currently, but they still don't compare to the tubes of the 40s thru the 60's, IMO. Personally the hunt for those tubes was just as fun as listening.

My brother did the opposite for a while. He had Ted's BAT VK60's mono tube amps and a BAT solid state pre. Worked wonderfully. He still has the pre, but sold the amps about 8 years ago to a friend and replaced them with a Krell amp.

H9

Clipdat · March 28

Thanks so much for weighing in with your thoughts and experiences, appreciate it.

VR3 · March 28

You need a tube transport, tube dac, tube pre, tube Amp, tube power conditioner... If you can find a tube speaker you will unlock a black hole

Clipdat · March 28

Tube power conditioner, haha.

rebelsoul · March 28

That's why I bought the bat tube mono blocks
Self bias . Tubes last long time . Pretty much maintenance free .

Tube preamp with tube amp

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