Mutec Ref 10 se 120 - Master clock

treitz3

For those who may be interested, I have assembled some notes on my observations of this Master Clock. Be forewarned, this will be a long, multiple post review.

As many of you know, I have gone balls to the wall on my streaming setup over the course of the past year. It all started with a cheap, $14 Ethernet cable that changed the sound and I took notice to this. Every since then, I have discovered that this was the most expensive $14 cable I have ever purchased, as not one item that was in that original streaming rig is still being used.

This review will illustrate the changes/differences I have observed between a After Dark Emperor Signature ClayX Giesemann OCXO 10MHz Reference Clock and this Mutec Ref 10 se 120.

For reference, I will list the items associated with the streaming portion of the rig and leave the rest of the rig out of this list. Major components of the rig are as follows -

DAC/STREAMER - Pro Series ANK 5.1 Signature DAC with Quad C cores and USB board via Snake River Audio Signature Series Hybrid PC and Audiolund Ultimate Silver digital cable to Lumin UX1

PRE - Canary C800 MK-II tubed pre with separate chassis tubed power supply / Snake River Audio Custom blend PC via Transparent Reference IC's.

AMP - Musical Fidelity KW750 Dual Mono SS amplifier with a QSA Red and Black fuse within the separate PS and Snake River Audio Signature Series Hybrid 20A PC, Transparent Music Wave Ultra SC's to –

SPEAKERS - Tyler Acoustics Woodmere's in Rosewood. Tara Labs jumpers, spiked.

SUBS - Stereo set of Rythmik F-25 800w Direct Servo sub's that flank both mains, on Target MR Maximum Rigidity Speaker stands that are spiked w/ Transparent Music Link Plus IC's and MIT "Y" splitter cables coming from the Musical Fidelity KW750. PC's are 6 Sons Audio Thunderbird Gold/Copper


Here is the Network System that leads up to the pre-amplifier -

Network system leading up to the Canary Pre -
iFi iPower Elite 12v PS>
NETGEAR Nighthawk Multi-Gig Cable Modem CM2000 >
Shunyata Alpha Ethernet cable > to mesh router
iFi iPower Elite 12v PS>
NETGEAR Nighthawk Tri-band Mesh (MK83) AX3600 Router >
******wirelessly over Wi-Fi using a different band******>
Snake River Cottonmouth - 20 amp PC >
Richard Gray Pro400 Power Supply >
LPS #1 - AfterDark High Current LPS with 12V / HiFi Tuning Cryo Gold Fuse + Furutech Rhodium IEC, dual rail via >
DC PC's - Continental Triple Crown CFS DC Power Cable (Limited Edition), 0.8 Meter / Copper Conductor / DC 2.1mm - 2ea
DC PC #1 goes to the EtherREGEN v1 B side
DC PC #2 goes to the NETGEAR Nighthawk Extender (satellite) - Ethernet out to A side of the EtherREGEN via Shunyata Venom
LPS #2 - Zero Zone 12VDC 15W Linear Power Supply >
Master Clock - Mutec Ref 10 se 120 75ohm and 50ohm outputs >
Clock Cable - Project ClayX Black River Giesemann EVA Reference 75ohm BNC Clock Cable, 0.80m > B side of EtherREGEN
EtherREGEN B side out Ethernet via Shunyata Omega > Muon Pro Filter> Lumin UX1>
Audiolund xTreme Silver Series 1.5m furutech BNC>
Pro Series ANK 5.1 Signature DAC tubed DAC with KAS Audio Primus PC>
Snake River Signature Series Hybrid (Gold/Silver/Red Copper) RCA>
IsoMax Ci-2RR Isolation Transformer>
Snake River Cottonmouth (Gold/Red Copper) RCA> Canary Pre


Yes, I know, I really need to learn how to put this configuration on Power Point, so it's easier to understand (myself included). There are some slight changes in the system that have not been updated yet but nothing in this review time frame has been changed out, adjusted or altered. It will, however, give the reader a hint of the caliber of components used in the comparison.

Offered below are my observations over the course of the first week of break in on the unit. She is still in flux at the moment and supposedly, I have three more weeks of flux before she finally settles down and stabilizes.

CONTINUED -

treitz3

Mutec REF 10 SE 120 -

Day one -

Equal changes from top frequencies down to the lowest of lowest.
Very clear. Micro detail down to the "inth" degree but not annoying. Actually lovely and surprising.
Not with all songs but many mlre instruments, echos and sound appear out of nowhere.
The layering from front to back is incredible. Lots of space between distances.
Instruments sound more like real instruments. Horns are especially rendered realistic. Very natural and sweet sounding with no digital edge. Very fluid.
Impressive dynamics. Equally impressive noise floor. Best of both worlds.
The texture of voices is incredibly detailed.
The ambience on live recordings really puts you there, even on not so exceptional recordings.
Madonna actually sounded rather good. (haha)
There is a new visceral impact on instruments and singers that were not present before.
Slightly sub optimal recordings have now catapulted into reference type sounds.
Height information is impressive. More on this later.
Ambient cues, while stellar before, are exceptional now.
Whenever you come around by Vince Gill now sounds like a reference recording.
Excellent stereo separation to include height in with this.
Depth pretty much unchanged. Still 30 foot back but some images brought more forward than their previous location. Superb layering of images from front to back, including the height informational cues for a very 3D experience.
Effortless presentation. Very musical
Classical and Jazz have made a significant leap toward enjoyment/ palpability/ease of listening/enjoying
Pianos seem improved just a hair....but they were honestly already pretty nice prior to the Mutec. The Muon Pro did a great job of rendering piano palpability well.

Day two -

It started to bloom.
Audiences split to the outside of the speakers and reached out to your ears, putting the performance in front of you.
Incredible spatial locationality cues. Much improved from yesterday. (an experience)
Micro detail enhanced to unfathomable levels.
Many songs took on a new "recording" quality, if you will. Like it is a different recording on a much improved format.
Slight recess in imaging compared to yesterday. (back about 2 feet but still with the ability to be 4 feet out in front of the mains)
Much more "enveloping sound".
Instrument placement shift to wider degree and very impressive imaging/presence.
Vocals cleared up even more with the impression that the rest if the recording wasn't even there and it was just their voices (hard to explain) Very palpable.
Deep bass very precise, no overponderance with texture and note differentiation to die for.
Average recordings became reference recordings.
Very upper top end a tad bit exaggerated. Not over the top but border lining annoyance on not so stellar recordings like Rush, Rush by Paula Abdul. I hope this aspect simmers down a bit.
Ability to hear even more voices, instruments and effects like echoes and things WAY back in the background not previously detected or known to even be there.....music within the music, if you will.
The Eagles, Live - "Hotel California" which includes notes that you read about below - "I have never heard any stereo do what I am currently hearing. I know you both may think that I am exaggerating but when you hear it? You will know. I just got through with Eagles "Hotel California" live and let me tell you. It was like I experienced a completely different recording.....even though it's the same damned recording I have listened to 100's of times. It's wonderfully crazy!".

Day three -

Upon first listen, the lower registers have quite a bit more weight but are still not out of balance with the rest of the sound.
An even greater sense of separation, especially with the focus of background singers.
New sounds emerge out of nowhere, even on familiar tracks.
Actually, there are a plethora of new sounds on tracks I'm not even intimately familiar with. Especially on more modern recordings/selections.
Slight shift of placement of instruments and singers. Not sure if that's a good thing or not. Definitely not preferred at this point.
Lots of "Wow!" moments. At this point, music is taking on a whole other level of enjoyment.
"Birds" by Dominque Fils-Aimé turned into an astonishingly awesome song. Demo type stuff, above reference. Demo.
Exceptional recordings really stand out and become truly exceptional.
The reflections off the studio walls are getting even more noticeable. (really puts you in the room or puts them in your room)
The distance between a modern recording and an older, not so well recorded album/selection slip further away from each other. Time to switch to LP's for those types of songs.
Horns are ungodly real and oh, so smooth.
I think I just fell in love with Natalie Cole.


CONTINUED -

treitz3

The following are observations texted to two members of the Charlotte Audio group as time progressed during the break in period of the Mutec….it's easier for me to just copy/paste than it is to re-type everything.




It is about 6 times bigger than the Afterdark clock. Didn't realize it was that big.

If this is supposedly "bad sound"? Then I may be in for a treat. Right out of the box and only powered up for 20 minutes? Not bad.

Very clear. The micro detail is very noticeable. Definitely much more definition with each image. Kind of spooky.

Very 3D, right off the bat....also very smooth in its presentation.

Thank the man above that I don't have to put up with what we both did with the Muon. Heck, I'd honestly be satisfied with what I am hearing now.

If this improves over the next month? I am really in for a treat. Tommy like.

A lot.


Already, I feel comfortable enough saying that this is akin to adding the Muon Pro to the system...already burned in and settled.

I am hearing much, much more musical information come through.

The impact that hits you on voices and instruments that never really had any visceral impact before....well, they definitely have it now!


This one is gonna be some fun! I haven't left the sweet spot since I started listening.

The rig started cold and things just keep getting better and better, even though the temps keep dropping and the demand gets even greater on the grid.

I know full well that $$$ have different meaning to different people but I would be completely happy with what I am experiencing today, based upon what I am hearing versus what I spent.

With every song? It just keeps getting better and better. I can understand why recording studios use this sucker....


It has been 9 hours so far. There are fluctuations (which, based upon experience is a good thing) but said fluctuations are not as big as the difference.

This is another animal that I am not used to experiencing .

Final sign off for tonight, gentlemen....y'all just need to experience this......words simply cannot describe.

There are a plethora of changes that are subtle. Some that are obvious.....and then there are some that are undeniable....along with the new sounds you never heard before. Totally cool. 👍



One other major development that I have observed with the new toy.

Many times over the years on various tracks, I have always been left wanting when it comes to the lead singer.

Sometimes on certain recordings, the image is "out of focus". I could never quite figure out how to solve this issue.

Well, it turns out that when this has happened? It isn't just one singer. It's actually two that are placed very one to one another in the mix or up on stage.

I never would have figured this out if it weren't for what I am now hearing. The two voices are now crystal clear and distinguishable from each other and the image is no longer "out of focus"

*Part of discussion omitted*


Naw man, it's definitely a different gender singer. You will clearly hear it when you come over. Instead of one "out of focus" image, there are now two distinct and very clear images of two people singing.

That's what I referred to last night as "spooky"


It has definitely opened up since yesterday. The imaging and spatial locationality separation is.....well, it's unreal.

I have never heard any stereo do what I am currently hearing. I know you both may think that I am exaggerating but when you hear it? You will know.

I just got through with Eagles "Hotel California" live and let me tell you. It was like I experienced a completely different recording.....even though it's the same damned recording I have listened to 100's of times. It's wonderfully crazy!

And it is only hour 38 or something like that. Yesterday was wonderful. Today is a flat out experience. I have no clue how things could even improve at this point.


Y'all have GOT to hear this.....man. Same thing as last night. I sat down to play a favorite of mine. "Miss Riddle" by Boz Scaggs.

I must have noticed a hundred different things about this song that was different and with a plethora of sounds I never knew was there before. Unreal.....simply unreal. 😲😲😲


Just an interesting note. I have noticed a quieter background and more dynamic passages and got to wondering....could you actually "see" the results.

So, I have been paying more attention to the dynamic sways on the Db meter. You can see that the dynamic range is better. Yes, all songs have a dynamic range but this is the Eagles. Song called "Waiting in the weeds". I don't recall ever seeing a swing in dynamics quite like this. No change in volume.



BTW, the clock is still improving every day. It's amazing some of the things I am experiencing. The bass has so much texture now that I do not honestly believe it could be improved on. It's so detailed and textured with authority like no other I have heard. So very controlled, it's unreal. The impact is awesome. If there is any distortion? I sure can't pick up on any. Room overload has significantly decreased, allowing me to crank up the volume quite a bit.....still, with no room overload.

Awesome stuff man.

Dude....just look at those swings in dynamics! It's crazy. A 40Db swing with zero change in volume.



Tuesday of this week versus today.....see any change? LOL

Before this? Maybe a 10dB to 18dB difference on average. I'd have to go look back on some of my screenshots to show you what it used to look like....on impressive (at the time) dynamic swings.

Tuesday, I noticed a big swing in dynamics, so I looked. I looked again today and it's apparently getting better. The sounds are still changing. Today is a little thin with a tad bit of sizzle on the top end that I haven't heard in quite some time (since long before I hooked it up). The stereo separation between the channels seems to be getting even more defined. It is so weird to be able to listen to the changes as it "does it's thang".

Thank the man above that the swings are not as bad as the Muon was. That was painful. At least I can listen and immensely enjoy the sound as it does its thing. If the Muon taught me something, it's this. The more dramatic the swing? The better the recovery and subsequent attribute it brought to an even greater extent. I can dig it.


Here is an older screenshot of previously "impressive" dynamics…Higher noise floor, looks like a swing between 64Db and maybe 82. An 18dB swing.



Tom

treitz3

I will be posting any changes moving forward in one more week, on week three and at the end of one month, when the clock should be stabilized. At that point, I will offer my final observations.

I can say that right now, without reservation, this Mutec was worth every penny spent. The caliber of fidelity I am experiencing is a flat out wonder to experience.

Tom

treitz3

Oooops, I forgot to post my current one Week observations on this unit.

One week -

Even more music behind the music has been revealed on tracks. Not on all songs but on songs like "California Love" by 2Pac, there are a plethora of additional sounds throughout the entire song that was hidden behind the music. Singers, sounds, instruments, LP scratching. you name it. Once not even noticed are now equal with the song and are easily heard.

Vocals have seemed to have stabilized into palpability that is spooky real. Almost too spooky at times
The texture of the horsehair sliding across the strings on Gregory Alan Isakov's, "Dandelion Wine" is something that really puts the Cello reproductive effort into new heights and into the room.👌

The dynamic range has increased considerably since the unit was first powered up. Wild swings in dynamics are now not only possible but common. A 40dB swing at an average listening level of 70dB is what is now considered normal at this point. For reference, at 70dB in my listening room - it's pretty loud and you feel the music, as well as hear it.

The differences between a poor, average, great and stellar recording have become more of a distance between each other. Great has become reference and stellar recordings simply blow you away at what a stereo can actually do. It becomes an "experience" that no amount of words I could type could actually describe.

I can still detect changes/flux from one day to another but the changes have become less and not as drastic in fluxuation(s).

The sheer enjoyment I get out of listening to new tracks, older tracks that were ho-hum and especially the stellar recordings is a wonderful experience.

Basically, at this point, I can comfortably report that this unit catapulted the system into another stratosphere of fidelity. So easy on the ears and fluid.

The visceral impact from a plucked guitar string (yes, even that!) to an electric guitar bass note to a drum kick is something that is startling at times. Even at lower volumes.

Summary after one week of listening - The biggest changes, I would say, are that there is much more music behind the music, incredibly palpable images, cleanliness and dramatic swings within the dynamic range.

Tom

Dr_Wu

Are you using a LPS with the Nano?

treitz3

Hi, Dr_Wu. My apologies for not comprehending your question. What is a Nano?

Did you happen to mean the Mutec? If so, no. The Mutec has an internal LPS. IIRC, two of them.

https://www.mutec-net.com/product_ref10_se120.php

Tom

Dr_Wu

My mistake. I thought you bought the new Mutec Nano version. It also has internal LPS, but reportedly is vastly improved with a high quality external LPS.
Congrats on the "big boy" addition!

treitz3

Ah, I see. Yeah, this one is the one they use in studios. I see hear why now.

Thanks man! I am rather pleased with the performance of this unit. Time will tell, of course, but so far? I am really, really digging what I am hearing.

Tom

treitz3

Week two observations -
Crystal clear playback. Very, very clean presentation. Uncanny at times at just how real it sounds.
Following every instrument, even during heavy or complex passages is easy.
Spatial locationality cues are improved even further, presenting a very natural sound stage. "Backrow Politics" by Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band is phenomenal to listen too. The best rendition of playback I have ever heard to date.
The dynamics have grown to a 50dB swing (additional 10dB) without changing the volume.
Notes from Thursday - For some reason, the clock decided it wanted to change between Tuesday of this week and today. MUCH more detail and presence...."aura". I lost depth recently and it is coming back with a vengeance. For some reason? Tonight? The entire room is the sound stage. What's weird is that I thought it was starting to stabilize. I was wrong. The sound is flat out incredible.....and so very musical.
You can now "feel" the music, whether it is on volume level one or above. That used not to be the case.
I can't believe it but there is still musical information that is being uncovered. Both macro and micro.
The natural roll off from cymbals and other instruments seems to go on forever.
You can clearly hear the sound from the body of the guitar. I could hear it before but now it is very palpable, as if the guitarist is playing in the room.
My God, do instruments sound like real instruments in the room. Think Meute's "You and Me". That xylophone, man!
I would be completely happy if there were no more improvements at this point. I would venture to say that 95% of my gripes with digital have disappeared. This was the sound I have been chasing after, ever since that cheap $14 Ethernet cable swap I did last year.

Tom

treitz3

Week 3 observations -

Considerable change in layering, height, depth and imaging. I wouldn't characterize it as "bloom", as that is sometimes referred to as a deficiency. It just offers more separation between the images and they are more spread out, layered, defined and localized, if that makes sense.
There is an even further sense of realism (accuracy of the reproductive effort) on many instruments and singers.
Even more background information is starting to come through, extremely layered at this point.
The 3D landscape is.....well, you just have to experience it. OUTSTANDING. Like a new reproduction of selections that you are used too.
It sounds like more of a full-fledged Hollywood production with no holds barred than just a song you listen too now. The "presentation" is...something else. The depth is incredible. Not just a couple of feet or 20 feet back...the layering is...beyond impressive, even on compressed recordings.
Q sound recordings have sounds in places that are unfathomable and well beyond "stereo".
Final thought...strangely? The distance between a poor, okay, decent, stellar and exceptional recording have lost the distance between one another. While this used to be a considerable deficiency, it has turned the tables.

Tom

heiney9

So, I've looked at this product and I can't quite see where in the chain this fits and why you need so many outputs? I totally understand what it does/is. Just not how to incorporate it.

H9

treitz3

Right now, I am only in need of one output. That is for the EtherREGEN 10MHz input. Two or three of the outputs I will probably never use, as they are 50Ω outputs that are usually used with overseas products. So, 7 of the outputs are turned off at the moment. I personally will not use more than one additional output but they are there, if they are ever needed. FWIW, the amount of outputs weren't really a factor in my decision to purchase this.

Within the chain, it's really simple. You just plug the clock in, hook up the BNC clock cable to the B side of the ER (making sure the direction is correct), flip the switch to external clock on the ER and then power up the clock, then ER. That's it. You are done.

I forgot to mention that this is the only change I have made to my rig since it was installed and for 4 weeks prior to that. So, I guess the comparison would be between this and the After Dark Emperor Signature ClayX Giesemann OCXO 10MHz Reference Master Clock.

Tom

heiney9

I also notice there are only outputs. I'm guessing the BNC cable and the connections between the Mutec and ReGen are bi-directional.

I am entertaining adding a 10 MHz clock, but my budget is more in-line with the Nano, which also gets stellar reviews. The Nano is confusing because it seems to have a IEC power as well as 15V dc switching walwart which confuses me. Which does it use?

H9

VR3

Reading the manual the DC hook up is to bypass the internal power supply so you can use your own external power supply

treitz3

Clock information only travels one way. The Mutec SE 120 or Nano would be the Master and the ER would be the slave. The switch on the B side of the ER just lets the internal circuitry know to include the internal clock or an external clock.

I am sorry, but I did about 2 months of research on the REF 10 SE 120. I literally know nothing about the Nano, other than its name and that it is a little brother of the SE120. Oh, and that Alex at UpTone Audio (of EtherREGEN fame) has now partnered up with Mutec and is now a distributor for them.

Tom

treitz3

Okay, so this will wrap up my review of the Mutec REF 10 SE 120 Master Clock...

There hasn't been much discernible change to the Clock since last week. Since its introduction to the rig, I have enjoyed music on a whole other level of reproduction. I believe I have relayed just about everything in the posts above that this clock can do (compared to a After Dark Emperor Signature ClayX Giesemann OCXO 10MHz Reference Clock). During this review, I did not change or adjust anything in the rig.

Earlier on, I tried and failed miserably to list the components associated with this review. I spent some time to learn Power Point and this will explain the configuration of the components used much better than trying to type it all out like I did before. It is pretty complex to simply type out (as you will see below)

The following is the current configuration of the streaming portion of the rig used for evaluating the Mutec SE 120 -





Tom

treitz3

And a photo of the rig itself. The listening room is 13x15



Tom

VR3

Had the opportunity to spend a few hours over at casa de Reitz today. Tom has made many changes since I was last there. He claims its been a year? I dunno, time flies!

Either way, the separation and clarity in the upper registers are undeniable! The rig is sounding better than ever!

Always a pleasure!

pitdogg2

Perfection..... Now break it all down to go into the new room, start over...
😉😳😜

Nice looking room Tom

Re_tread

Greetings Tom ( @treitz3 ),

Thank you for posting your experience installing your Mutec Ref10 SE 120 clock with your EtherRegen - if I understand your implementation correctly. Your reports of this installation are very interesting and compelling. I too am considering emulating this path at sometime in the future, whereby I would acquire a Mutec Ref10 (and hopefully a SE 120 version?) to re-clock my EtherRegen (ver1). When you can accommodate, I have 3 questions for your consideration and feedback:

Q1. In your Day-2 report, you mentioned that (paraphrasing): "Very upper top end a tad bit exaggerated."

Did this cited issue resolve itself over time, or, is the very upper top end still a bit exaggerated?

Q2. In my heart, I would hope this Mutec implementation would enable the music to resolve to a more refined "coherency", meaning, that with the vast influx of hyper-details and musical separation of instruments/voices that the SE 120 enables, that even with all of these "separations" the music still gels together as a single complete musical portrayal, as one complete event, and not a chopped-up segmentation of separate contributors (if you know what I mean). I think you imply this in your reports, but, may not have stated this explicitly (...if you did, pardon my error). Thus, can you elaborate (perhaps again) on how the "whole" or the "completeness" of the music even though that is so much more detail (information)?

Q3. Also, I have a desire for the enveloped sound to be "at ease" to my digital playback. Does the Mutec REF10 SE 120 bring more ease to your digital listening, or, (as a complete hypothetical contrast) an ultimately "fatiguing" digitisation, due to so much details? Are your listening session more or less fatiguing than you previous baseline? A small elaboration on this point would be wonderful.

Thank you very much.

Kind regards,
Re_Tread

treitz3

Hello, @Re_tread. I thought I recognized your moniker! First off, please allow me to offer you a very warm welcome to Club Polk. I don't know what you asked me over at the WBF, because (as you know) the site is down right now, so they can switch the servers over to the new one. My apologies for the delay. My adult chores kept me from responding in a timely manner.

Re_tread wrote: »

Thank you for posting your experience installing your Mutec Ref10 SE 120 clock with your EtherRegen - if I understand your implementation correctly. Your reports of this installation are very interesting and compelling. I too am considering emulating this path at sometime in the future, whereby I would acquire a Mutec Ref10 (and hopefully a SE 120 version?) to re-clock my EtherRegen (ver1).

You are welcome. This unit has provided me with some really great sound. The combo you are looking at will work wonderfully together. I just can't wait for Alex to tell me that the V2 version of the ER is ready to ship!

I will say this. While I have not heard the Mutec Ref 10, while I was reading and researching, I spoke with many people who had the SE 120 (or knew people who had it and had a chance to listen). The empirical evidence and overwhelming consensus from those in the know, told me to get the SE 120. The Ref 10 is no slouch but it was recommended to step up and get the SE120. I figured that if I was going to spend that much, I might as well get the best....and I am glad I did. SCAudiophile and KennyB were really the ones that pushed me over the top to pull the trigger on this unit.

Re_tread wrote: »

Q1. In your Day-2 report, you mentioned that (paraphrasing): "Very upper top end a tad bit exaggerated."

Did this cited issue resolve itself over time, or, is the very upper top end still a bit exaggerated?

My apologies for the confusion. I was told to not even listen to the clock for the first week, that things would change.....but it sounded so good, right off the bat, I figured I would just document what I was hearing as time marched on.

I recall what I heard and while it was slight, it was exaggerated and something I considered a deficiency. With a new clock that was still trying to stabilize, things like this will happen. To my delight, this aspect has, in fact, settled down and is no longer any issue whatsoever. When the clock has stabilized and the "Ready" LED stops blinking, she's good to go. BUT - Always turn the clock on at least 30 minutes before your listening session, so that it is oscillating correctly when you go to listen. The best scenario (unless you are away from the system for some time, (read, days at a time) is to keep the clock on at all times.

Re_tread wrote: »

Q2. In my heart, I would hope this Mutec implementation would enable the music to resolve to a more refined "coherency", meaning, that with the vast influx of hyper-details and musical separation of instruments/voices that the SE 120 enables, that even with all of these "separations" the music still gels together as a single complete musical portrayal, as one complete event, and not a chopped-up segmentation of separate contributors (if you know what I mean). I think you imply this in your reports, but, may not have stated this explicitly (...if you did, pardon my error). Thus, can you elaborate (perhaps again) on how the "whole" or the "completeness" of the music even though that is so much more detail (information)?

This is actually my favorite aspect of the SE120. You get all of the detail, all of the subtle nuances and imaging but it brings everything to an equal plane, with nothing standing out, screaming, "Look at me!!!!! I am over here!!!" There is none of that. It all just gels together with an ease and presentation that is a sheer pleasure to listen too, even at louder volumes. Even with not so great recordings (provided you don't crank them up too much). At the end of the day, you can't make chicken soup out of chicken chit. No matter what you put into it.

Re_tread wrote: »

Q3. Also, I have a desire for the enveloped sound to be "at ease" to my digital playback. Does the Mutec REF10 SE 120 bring more ease to your digital listening, or, (as a complete hypothetical contrast) an ultimately "fatiguing" digitisation, due to so much details? Are your listening session more or less fatiguing than you previous baseline? A small elaboration on this point would be wonderful.

Well, I will say this. It doesn't sound like digital always has for me. Overly compressed songs will still sound digital but exceptional recordings and even just decent recordings flow with a fluidity that will have me listening for hours and hours on end with absolutely zero fatigue whatsoever. I can't tell you how many times I have woken up, 2:00 or 4:00 in the AM, still situated in the listening position. It's not just because I have a comfortable chair. I don't even know I drift off when I do. I only know that I did when I come too again.....and it sounds so good, I'll actually keep listening.

With the addition of the SE 120, I can say with complete certainty and with more time under my belt with the unit, that it is absolutely less fatiguing. As you may know, it is rare when I highly recommend a particular product and this one checks all of the boxes and to me, it was worth every penny spent and then some. It quite simply catapulted me to a different level of listening. One I appreciate every time I listen.

I am looking forward to connecting the SE 120 up to the Esoteric P-02 transport (that also has a 10MHz input) to see what it does for that unit. Just have to wait for the 50ohm digital cable to arrive. The aforementioned observations you read about were only in use on the streaming portion of the rig. I hope this answers your inquiries. If not, please feel free to reach back out and I will answer to the best of my ability.

Tom

Re_tread

Greetings Tom ( @treitz3 ),

Thank you so much for your clear and thorough replies. Much appreciated. Okay, you sold me on going with the SE 120 (vs. the standard REF 10).

Your reply is (thankfully!) congruent with my hoped assertions: that by empirically "lowering the noise floor" with a better clock (in this case, a much better clock) you hear increased detail and resolution, and this enables a deeper rhythmic flow of the musicians which is effectively more complete, and concurrently, it even creates a more coherent wholeness, with no cited psychologic downside (e.g., listening fatigue).

The proof is in the pudding (as they say), meaning, that with the SE 120 employed, everything is more at ease, and you are listening longer. IMHO, those indicators are very important to me and my aspirations.

Thank you for reconciling these questions, and squelching my lingering concerns.

Kind regards,
Re-tread

treitz3

If you are okay with saving a bit of dough and buying on the used market, here is one that appears to be in mint condition.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/69666-mutec-ref10-se120-black-10-mhz-reference-master-clock/#comment-1278472

Tom

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Thank you, Tom. I will look further into this posting, and, I will continue to keep my acquisition "timeline" options flexible, as I have some funding parameters to consider before pulling the trigger. This path will also necessitate the need for me to acquire another PC and a clock cable, so the whole enchilada will cost a pretty penny (to do it right). Moreover, I have leaned that good things come to those who are patient, which is often learned by necessity , so I hope to proceed when the stars align.

Thanks again for all your insight and support, and I will see you back on WBF soon.

Kind regards,
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treitz3

treitz3 wrote: »

I am looking forward to connecting the SE 120 up to the Esoteric P-02 transport (that also has a 10MHz input) to see what it does for that unit. Just have to wait for the 50ohm digital cable to arrive.

Update - The 50 MHz cable came in and I sorted out an issue that was caused by a BNC/RCA adapter (basically lost the adapter altogether) and have been listening to the Esoteric transport with the clock as of late. My observations;

Without the Mutec Ref 10 SE 120 - I was impressed at a low noise floor and the sheer amount of information that was delivered but it wasn't really my cup of tea. While this unit, hooked up to a ANK 4.1 DAC, sounded good, I could tell that their was a strong, "house sound". One that I did not really enjoy that much at all. It did not exhibit the noise that the Marantz did, which drove me nuckin' futz, but there was just something about the sound that I wasn't too enamored with. I could definitely hear potential though!

That was a little disappointing and surprising, given that I have heard other Esoteric products and really liked what I heard. On pretty much any system I heard them on over the years. Then there was the cost. To spend a hefty chunk of change on a very well regarded product, only to listen to it from time to time, well....it was a shock to my wallet, ears and system.

With the Mutec Ref 10 SE 120 - Completely different observations. The house sound was gone and even more of what I did truly enjoy about the sound got exponentially better. Upgrading the PC's to the Mutec and Esoteric yielded even better results. The combination is just sublime and now my physical digital rig sounds as quiet (noise gremlins are all now GONE) as the streaming rig.

So, the Mutec Ref 10 SE 120 catapulted both the physical digital and streaming digital to different stratospheres of listening pleasure. The ER (EtherREGEN) was the unit that allowed me to hook up a 10MHz clock to begin with. With 6 more 10MHz hookups left to utilize, anything else introduced into the rig moving forward will not even be a consideration, unless it can utilize the SE 120.

Overall, this is a highly recommended product by myself that might surprise you when you hear what it actually brings to the table. I can clearly hear now, why they use this in professional recording studios. The end result is undeniable.....and undeniably wonderful to listen too.

Tom