Best Polk bi-amp bookshelf speakers?
Greetings! I had a terrific Polk bi-amp setup, using rt800i floorstanders and the stunning Panasonic SA-XR57 full digital bi-amp receiver. With my cs400i center channel, I had both bi-amp and bi-wire in my setup, one of the friendliest and most noticeable such setups in existence.
Alas, my wife decided that floorstanders were no longer welcome in our household, so I retired and sold the rt800i's to a lucky chap. I have since been on the lookout for a smaller, bookshelf stereo bi-amp pair to continue with. However, no such luck...
I have looked at the following:
1. Rt55i's were my initial replacement weapons of choice, but they are much overpriced for the conditions I have been seeing on eBay and Craig's List.
2. I considered a pair of cs400i centers as LRs but would like feedback before such a Frankenstein investment.
3. Oh and my current "wife-approved" system is exceptional Polk Monitor 7C LR and my CS400i center to a Denon HD-750h receiver - nice, but non bi-amp configuration. Very good, but not to the level of my bi-amped setup. (I continue to run the center in bi-wire configuration)
Any thoughts or recommendations would be much appreciated...
Alas, my wife decided that floorstanders were no longer welcome in our household, so I retired and sold the rt800i's to a lucky chap. I have since been on the lookout for a smaller, bookshelf stereo bi-amp pair to continue with. However, no such luck...
I have looked at the following:
1. Rt55i's were my initial replacement weapons of choice, but they are much overpriced for the conditions I have been seeing on eBay and Craig's List.
2. I considered a pair of cs400i centers as LRs but would like feedback before such a Frankenstein investment.
3. Oh and my current "wife-approved" system is exceptional Polk Monitor 7C LR and my CS400i center to a Denon HD-750h receiver - nice, but non bi-amp configuration. Very good, but not to the level of my bi-amped setup. (I continue to run the center in bi-wire configuration)
Any thoughts or recommendations would be much appreciated...
HT1: Polk Monitor 7C's L/R, Polk CS400i center (bi-wire)
Sides: Polk RT10+, modified with Vifa 1" polymer dome tweeters
Rears: Polk VX300i surround speakers
Subwoofer: Pioneer PSW-8mk2
Receiver: Denon HD-750H 7.1
HT2: Polk CS175i+ L/Rs with Vifa 1" polymer dome tweeter
Center: Polk CS300
Sub: modified Polk PSW10 (ratcage fix)
Surrounds: CSW cubes sides, rears
Panasonic SA-XR57
Sides: Polk RT10+, modified with Vifa 1" polymer dome tweeters
Rears: Polk VX300i surround speakers
Subwoofer: Pioneer PSW-8mk2
Receiver: Denon HD-750H 7.1
HT2: Polk CS175i+ L/Rs with Vifa 1" polymer dome tweeter
Center: Polk CS300
Sub: modified Polk PSW10 (ratcage fix)
Surrounds: CSW cubes sides, rears
Panasonic SA-XR57
Comments
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Look up what real bi-amping is because you can't do it with an AVR and passive crossovers.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Look up the SA-XR57, then come back.HT1: Polk Monitor 7C's L/R, Polk CS400i center (bi-wire)
Sides: Polk RT10+, modified with Vifa 1" polymer dome tweeters
Rears: Polk VX300i surround speakers
Subwoofer: Pioneer PSW-8mk2
Receiver: Denon HD-750H 7.1
HT2: Polk CS175i+ L/Rs with Vifa 1" polymer dome tweeter
Center: Polk CS300
Sub: modified Polk PSW10 (ratcage fix)
Surrounds: CSW cubes sides, rears
Panasonic SA-XR57 -
Allow me to school you.
To bi-amp requires 2 separate amplifiers, each with its own power supply. Your AVR does not have that.
In addition, to bi-amp requires the use of active crossovers not the passive crossovers you are using.
Saw this about your AVR.Conclusions
Panasonic has certainly achieved the efficiency goal in designing this receiver. Alas, it has rather strange response which I think is indicative of less than perfectly engineered amplifier. I suspect you can pick these up for a song so in that regard, it may not be a bad purchase if you want a cool and light amplifier. Otherwise, I can't recommend it.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Here's a bit more about your AVR. It appears to be rated at 100wpc @ 6 ohms @ 1kHz. However, when using 4 channels the wpc drops to about 75wpc @ 6 ohms. Considering your speakers are 8 ohm nominal and play a lot more frequencies than just at 1kHz the actual wpc would be much less than the rated specs.
The reason for the drop is that all those channels are sharing the same power
supply. You cannot rob Peter to pay Paul.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
In addition, to bi-amp requires the use of active crossovers not the passive crossovers you are using.
To actively bi-amp, yes. One can always passively bi-amp as well. They just won't be changing the signal.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Greetings! I had a terrific Polk bi-amp setup, using rt800i floorstanders and the stunning Panasonic SA-XR57 full digital bi-amp receiver. With my cs400i center channel, I had both bi-amp and bi-wire in my setup, one of the friendliest and most noticeable such setups in existence.
Alas, my wife decided that floorstanders were no longer welcome in our household, so I retired and sold the rt800i's to a lucky chap. I have since been on the lookout for a smaller, bookshelf stereo bi-amp pair to continue with. However, no such luck...
I have looked at the following:
1. Rt55i's were my initial replacement weapons of choice, but they are much overpriced for the conditions I have been seeing on eBay and Craig's List.
2. I considered a pair of cs400i centers as LRs but would like feedback before such a Frankenstein investment.
3. Oh and my current "wife-approved" system is exceptional Polk Monitor 7C LR and my CS400i center to a Denon HD-750h receiver - nice, but non bi-amp configuration. Very good, but not to the level of my bi-amped setup. (I continue to run the center in bi-wire configuration)
Any thoughts or recommendations would be much appreciated...
I would just keep looking for a nice pair of rt55is. Or, if budget permits, the newer R200s or R200 AEs?
No on number 2. I tried that once many moons ago for shites and giggles, and it sounded terrible. They are meant to be placed horizontally only, and the crossover makes it so that is the only option.
As already noted, AVRs have tiny power supplies, and only one. The more channels driven, far less WPC. You are just - as Jesse likes to say - robbing Peter to pay Paul. If you want MUCH better sound, get a good used two channel amp like a parasound HCA-1000A. You will then understand the market bullcrap of bi-amping with an AVR...Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
oh but if you like your 7Cs, why not just update the crossovers? And what tweeters are you rocking? That with a better amp and I think you will be VERY surprised...but you will have to get an AVR with preouts.Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
"Panasonic" isn't a name that comes to mind when I think about high quality sound reproduction and amplification.
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Tweeters require so little power, there's just nothing really to be gained powering a 2 way speaker with multiple amps if your main amp is high current and can double wattage as the impedence drops 8/4/2- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Biwiring is pure marketing, it is no different then a double run of speaker wire, just a super long set of jumpers- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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You can change the signal if you use a passive line level crossover. -
Biwiring is pure marketing, it is no different then a double run of speaker wire, just a super long set of jumpers
I would have agreed with you on this before I bought my apogee duetta 2 speakers, bi- wiring does make quite a different with the apogees, even when using inexpensive wire. The midrange/tweeter works best with course wire and the bass panel works best with fine wire. -
The question would be simply this, if you were to install jumpers between your top and bottom binding post, would you actually hear a difference?
The answer, in my experience is no. If you used your exact same configuration but simply installed jumpers on the speaker end there would be no difference to detect, you simply have joined the wire at both ends.
Different types of wires make a difference but the question of biwiring making a difference to me is definitely a no- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Agree!Different types of wires make a difference but the question of biwiring making a difference to me is definitely a no -
"Panasonic" isn't a name that comes to mind when I think about high quality sound reproduction and amplification.
I mean, well... sometimes...
but, yeah... point taken.
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So much pent up sexual energy in that advertisement, lol.
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So much pent up sexual energy in that advertisement, lol.
It was the seventies... that was pretty much everybody's baseline in those days.
PG version:
R version
source: https://www.psaudio.com/blogs/copper/empire-part-3 (including some commentary on these two Empire Grenadier ads)
PS they're pretty awful loudspeakers.
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Why in the hell would anyone want to bi-amp bookshelf speakers???!!!Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
The one benefit that I can see to bi-amping from a receiver or single amp is the doubling of speaker wire (conductor) from the speaker output to the speakers. This is especially true if using a long run of thin gage wire.Stan
Main 2ch:
Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.
HT:
Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60
Other stuff:
Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601 -
love it when someone asks a question, you take time to answer, and then they disappear...Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
The one benefit that I can see to bi-amping from a receiver or single amp is the doubling of speaker wire (conductor) from the speaker output to the speakers. This is especially true if using a long run of thin gage wire.
Most mass produced loudspeakers have over a hundred feet of 22 awg (or thinner!) copper wire wrapped around an iron core between the positive binding post and the midrange driver.
Alot of things we perceive as improvements definitely has a visual bias associated with it.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
This whole thing could have been avoided when the wife said, "floor standers are no longer welcome in our household" by replying with, "then neither are you!!"Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
love it when someone asks a question, you take time to answer, and then they disappear...
In this case I believe it's due to embarrassment after realizing how wrong he was.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
This whole thing could have been avoided when the wife said, "floor standers are no longer welcome in our household" by replying with, "then neither are you!!"
For sure man... My wife was ok with my speakers but honestly having 6 ft 400 pound speakers has been awesome. It is literally impossible for my daughter or my wife to knock them over and my wife can't reach the top- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
The next time I am over and see your other half? I am SO gonna explain to her that your hiding spot is on top of your speakers....that there is a secret hidden door to release her next purse.
At that point? I'll grab my popcorn and watch as you try to maintain damage control.
The only way to avoid this is to send me a package from Ed McMan stating that I am a winner of a lottery I don't even play.
But that's your problem to solve. It is what it is. Oh, BTW? I loves ya' bro'! Good luck!
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
