Ok, little help please in choosing a new home theater receiver.

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I'm primarily interested in home theater use. Speakers - 2xL800s, 2x L600s, L400 and 4x L900s. I use a five year old Denon AVR-X4300H and Outlaw Audio 7000 now. I think I'm set with either 5.X.4 or 7.X.4 for my set-up and space. I'd like to upgrade my AVR and considering the following with the weekend sales:
1) Denon AVR-X8500HA - $2,700 (more than I need probably but a great price)
2) Anthem MRX-740 8K - $2,635 (heard great things about ARC Genesis)
3) Onkyo TX-RZ70 - $2,800
Or maybe all three of these are overkill for my proposed set-up? and,
4) Onkyo TX-RZ50 - $1,200
5) Denon AVR-X3800H ($909) or AVR-X4800H ($1400) - Both would be Denon Refurbished (also I could get Dirac for these with the 30% off Dirac this weekend)

Toolfan66

With those speakers, go with something that has preouts and add a 5 channel amp. I know nothing about the receivers you listed..

Marantz gets my vote,,

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Toolfan66 wrote: »

With those speakers, go with something that has preouts and add a 5 channel amp. I know nothing about the receivers you listed..

Marantz gets my vote,,

I have the Outlaw Audio 7000 that is 7 Channel that I plan on continuing to use for now.

rooftop59

Again, unless you need 8K or 11 channels I'm not sure what you think you're gonna gain by upgrading. I would put my money somewhere else...imho of course

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rooftop59 wrote: »

Again, unless you need 8K or 11 channels I'm not sure what you think you're gonna gain by upgrading. I would put my money somewhere else...imho of course

I'm thinking the room correction technologies (Dirac or ARC) would provide a noticeable difference, and I'll be running either 9 or 11 channels (9 at the moment, but I might add 2). But, I also don't claim to know the most about all of this. The more I read or watch - the more doubt and confusion I have with the choices.

nooshinjohn

No receiver in the budget you outlined will handle all those Legend speakers.... I would get one of these and then add separate amplification for the other channels.
https://www.arcam.co.uk/product,hda,av-processors,av41.htm

I am using an AVR20 and it's performance for music has been exemplary, and it's HT capabilities are just as good. The AV20 is a pre/pro and gives greater flexibility. Do not buy one on the used market however, as there will be no warranty support if you do so.

Emlyn

I don't think there's much to be gained with Dirac that the X4300 can't already do for immersion as a surround processor. A case could be made for it with a multiple subwoofer system but I don't see that's the case in the gear listed.

If there isn't a pair of subwoofers in the system already that would be my first recommendation. Those could change your world! Depending on room size a pair of SVS PB3000s or SB3000s would rock the house. I found the SB2000s aren't enough to match the L800s. https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-3000

With a Legend system I'd really be thinking about ditching a receiver and going with a surround processor as the next upgrade after subwoofers. Any other receiver is either an incremental side step or minor upgrade in processing. Really useful features haven't changed much since the X4300 came out.

The L800s also need a separate amp with a substantial current output capability. They are hungry for current and don't wake up fully unless they're powered sufficiently. The Outlaw 7000x won't do them justice but they'd be fine with the rest of the speakers (I own a couple of them and like them a lot for what they are).

I'd recommend a Parasound A31 three channel amplifier or equivalent because that's what I'm using with my L800s and L400. An Outlaw amp runs the rest of the speakers in a 9.2.2 Legend/LSiM system.

Invest in a sound pressure level meter if you don't have one so you can manually check speaker levels. The automated setup systems aren't really that reliable at setting speaker levels although they do distance and time pretty well. Bear in mind that the L800s can throw off an automated setup routine too because of their SDA nature.

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Emlyn wrote: »

I don't think there's much to be gained with Dirac that the X4300 can't already do for immersion as a surround processor. A case could be made for it with a multiple subwoofer system but I don't see that's the case in the gear listed.

If there isn't a pair of subwoofers in the system already that would be my first recommendation. Those could change your world! Depending on room size a pair of SVS PB3000s or SB3000s would rock the house. I found the SB2000s aren't enough to match the L800s. https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-3000

With a Legend system I'd really be thinking about ditching a receiver and going with a surround processor as the next upgrade after subwoofers. Any other receiver is either an incremental side step or minor upgrade in processing. Really useful features haven't changed much since the X4300 came out.

The L800s also need a separate amp with a substantial current output capability. They are hungry for current and don't wake up fully unless they're powered sufficiently. The Outlaw 7000x won't do them justice but they'd be fine with the rest of the speakers (I own a couple of them and like them a lot for what they are).

I'd recommend a Parasound A31 three channel amplifier or equivalent because that's what I'm using with my L800s and L400. An Outlaw amp runs the rest of the speakers in a 9.2.2 Legend/LSiM system.

Invest in a sound pressure level meter if you don't have one so you can manually check speaker levels. The automated setup systems aren't really that reliable at setting speaker levels although they do distance and time pretty well. Bear in mind that the L800s can throw off an automated setup routine too because of their SDA nature.

Thank you for the long post and insight. I'm really confused with the more I read/watch. I picked-up a Marantz Amp10 for a good price a week ago, and it's still in the box unopened. I've been having second thoughts thinking that it's too much (waiting on the AV10), and was thinking to return it in the next couple days and go the route of one of the AVR's I listed here with the Outlaw. If I just went ahead and kept the Amp10 would that be sufficient alone for the full 5.X.4 or 7.X.4 (bi-amping the Front L/R) or would you still recommend a 3-channel for the front to go along with it?

I didn't list the sub above, but using a Kliptsch RP-1400SW (Adorama has it for 699 atm).

Emlyn

Depends on what your budget is. Since you already have the Amp 10 it would make sense to get the matching processor too if it's financially ok for you. The Amp 10's power output is sufficient for all of the Legend speakers.

You might want to check with Polk or Marantz customer service to see if the Amp 10 is fully compatible with the L800s. The class D amplification configuration of the Amp 10 may or may not be an issue with how the SDA works if it's amplification modules are differentially balanced. Polk and Marantz are under the same company ownership.

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Emlyn wrote: »

Depends on what your budget is. Since you already have the Amp 10 it would make sense to get the matching processor too if it's financially ok for you. The Amp 10 is sufficient for all of the Legend speakers.

Yes, I started down this rabbit hole about two months ago. I have another post about speakers and went with the set-up mentioned above. I was working for the gov't oversees and moving every 2-3 years, so I missed out on building a system for long time. I retired recently, and am in the midst of building my man cave, and there's just so much choice that it's confusing and frustrating, i.e. buying the AMP10 and then leaving it in the box for a week now with potential buyers remorse.

Is Dirac far superior to Audessy XT32? Dirac is running a 30% promotion until tomorrow and it's available if I go the route of the AV10. I was just thinking that "isn't 10k in separates (AV10 and AMP10) overkill for this Polk system?

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Emlyn wrote: »

Depends on what your budget is. Since you already have the Amp 10 it would make sense to get the matching processor too if it's financially ok for you. The Amp 10's power output is sufficient for all of the Legend speakers.

You might want to check with Polk or Marantz customer service to see if the Amp 10 is fully compatible with the L800s. The class D amplification configuration of the Amp 10 may or may not be an issue with how the SDA works if it's amplification modules are differentially balanced. Polk and Marantz are under the same company ownership.

Or, do I simply return the AMP10, and buy the Parasound A31 (seems that it's 4,000 new) you mention and pair that with the 4300H/Outlaw? This is what I mean by so many choices and confusion.

Emlyn

Since you already have the Outlaw amp for surround speaker duty I'd go with the Parasound amp so the front speakers have the same class AB amplification. I went through the same decision process three years ago or so when upgrading from a Marantz receiver to the Marantz AV8805A processor to drive the Legend speakers with the Atmos modules I have. Very pleased with the results.

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Emlyn wrote: »

Since you already have the Outlaw amp for surround speaker duty I'd go with the Parasound amp so the front speakers have the same class AB amplification. I went through the same decision process three years ago or so when upgrading from a Marantz receiver to the Marantz AV8805A processor to drive the Legend speakers with the Atmos modules I have. Very pleased with the results.

It seems returns are fairly common business in this arena? People testing out units and finding it's not what they want, and return? I feel guilty about returning the AMP10 (local purchase from a shop), but it's seems maybe returning it and getting the Parasound would be the better option.

Or if I kept the Amp10 and picked up the AV10 (5k), I'd be set. But, what is typically the life-generation for AV technology these days. I figured it was about 5 years before technology advanced enough suggesting the need for an upgrade, and that's the main reason I was looking beyond the 4300H. I guess a good amp lasts forever as an investment, but it's the AVR or Processor that would require future upgrading more often (5 years or more)?

Emlyn

Now I recall my process was to get the A31 amp to power the L800s and L400 and let the receiver handle the rest of the LSiM line speakers. Then I upgraded to the processor and got the Outlaw amp at the same time and put the L900 modules in for Atmos. The L800s improve even more with better equipment driving them.

I've been using Parasound amplifiers for more than 20 years without failure so they're an easy recommendation for me.

Emlyn

apparat wrote: »

I guess a good amp lasts forever as an investment, but it's the AVR or Processor that would require future upgrading more often (5 years or more)?

That's a good way of looking at it. A good amp can stick around for 12-20 years. In the same time period new technology may drive someone to "upgrade" half a dozen times with receivers and processors. The upgrades in the last decade have been driven by video demands and HDMI standards primarily. That is now slowing down a lot. Atmos has been on the market for several years now and is mature. I believe 8K is not going to be a mass market feature because such video displays don't meet government power consumption limits in certain markets.

I suspect my 8805A may be good for several more years without missing out on anything. The newest Marantz receivers are also likely to be long lasting in the market. Some now have dedicated outputs for four subwoofers. There comes a point where the additional features just aren't worth it for home theater purposes.

nooshinjohn

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb79j5-arcam-avr30-brand-new-in-box-receivers

rooftop59

For HT, Dirac live v. Audyssey XT-32 is a wash. For 2 channel, different story.

I agree that arcam units sound wonderful, but over only had 2 channel units.

Geoff4rfc

apparat wrote: »

Emlyn wrote: »

Since you already have the Outlaw amp for surround speaker duty I'd go with the Parasound amp so the front speakers have the same class AB amplification. I went through the same decision process three years ago or so when upgrading from a Marantz receiver to the Marantz AV8805A processor to drive the Legend speakers with the Atmos modules I have. Very pleased with the results.

It seems returns are fairly common business in this arena? People testing out units and finding it's not what they want, and return? I feel guilty about returning the AMP10 (local purchase from a shop), but it's seems maybe returning it and getting the Parasound would be the better option.

Or if I kept the Amp10 and picked up the AV10 (5k), I'd be set. But, what is typically the life-generation for AV technology these days. I figured it was about 5 years before technology advanced enough suggesting the need for an upgrade, and that's the main reason I was looking beyond the 4300H. I guess a good amp lasts forever as an investment, but it's the AVR or Processor that would require future upgrading more often (5 years or more)?

The AV10/Amp10 sounds like a killer combo. Overkill for your Polk set up?? There IS no such thing as overkill, this is coming from a guy that built rear stands for RTiA9's to be used as rear surrounds.

Longevity? My first AVR, Onkyo 807 bought in 2010 still functions as new albeit after two warranty repairs, one being an out of warranty repair to replace the HDMI board. My Integra DTR-70.4 still operates as new which is now 8 years old.

My Marantz 8802A purchased in 'K19 is rock solid, and until everything goes full 8K, I'm good to go.

The AV10 is also good to go with 4K/8K scaling but more important has 4K/8K pass through, so whatever source you have decoding your 8K content, will be allowed to "pass through" to it's final destination by the Marantz security force

Besides, the AV/Amp 10 combo is purty to look at.

By the way, the five year evolutionary chain for Ultra HD you ask about, might last you longer than that. Since 4K is still the standard and 8K is still pretty scarce.

My poor non 4K native source receiving AVR sits in my bedroom with my poor non 4K native source receiving BRP, the 70.4 and Oppo 103, together they reminisce when 1080P was the king

PolkFam

Onkyo TX-RZ70

Emlyn wrote: »

I don't think there's much to be gained with Dirac that the X4300 can't already do for immersion as a surround processor. A case could be made for it with a multiple subwoofer system but I don't see that's the case in the gear listed.

If there isn't a pair of subwoofers in the system already that would be my first recommendation. Those could change your world! Depending on room size a pair of SVS PB3000s or SB3000s would rock the house. I found the SB2000s aren't enough to match the L800s. https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-3000

With a Legend system I'd really be thinking about ditching a receiver and going with a surround processor as the next upgrade after subwoofers. Any other receiver is either an incremental side step or minor upgrade in processing. Really useful features haven't changed much since the X4300 came out.

The L800s also need a separate amp with a substantial current output capability. They are hungry for current and don't wake up fully unless they're powered sufficiently. The Outlaw 7000x won't do them justice but they'd be fine with the rest of the speakers (I own a couple of them and like them a lot for what they are).

I'd recommend a Parasound A31 three channel amplifier or equivalent because that's what I'm using with my L800s and L400. An Outlaw amp runs the rest of the speakers in a 9.2.2 Legend/LSiM system.

Invest in a sound pressure level meter if you don't have one so you can manually check speaker levels. The automated setup systems aren't really that reliable at setting speaker levels although they do distance and time pretty well. Bear in mind that the L800s can throw off an automated setup routine too because of their SDA nature.

I was also looking at the A31 for the L800's and the L400 but was hesitant because of the speaker's impedance dip below 4 ohms to 2.8 ohms. I'm curious if you still use the A31 for the 800's? Have you had any issues thus far?

Emlyn

No issues at all with the A31 and the L800s. I run the L800s full range for music and tend to have them rocking at high volume levels sometimes. They do need an amp with high current capability.

PolkFam

Onkyo TX-RZ70

Emlyn wrote: »

No issues at all with the A31 and the L800s. I run the L800s full range for music and tend to have them rocking at high volume levels sometimes. They do need an amp with high current capability.

That's great to know! Thanks for the reply!