2023: Vintage SDA discussion request

plastic_avatar

Hey Polk folk, a question:

If you have thoughts on your vintage SDA setups you'd like to share, I'd love to hear them.

I combed through a lot of SDA posts the past 2 years, and some bits are always on my mind when I listen. Things like:

- Does SDA artificially warp the soundstage?

- Are the instruments and voices placed appropriately across the listening area?

- Is the center defined, or do sounds wander from that part of the image?

- Do I (or others who listen to my setup) think the sound is gimmicky?

- Does a song sound bad because of SDA? Or is it something else?

And I'm sure there are other questions I had, and others had, too.

My changes and opinions

The equipment I used had a YUGE impact on the sound I got- not so much on overall placement, but on the quality, definition, and overall WOW factor.

Yes, Virginia, there is a difference in how speakers sound based on what and how you feed them. I didn't know how much that really, *really* mattered (for years). Now I do.

I just listened to this



and got a 20-foot wide soundstage with defined sound placement across the whole room. Jazzy things seem to let ye olde SDA shine.

(Note: This song did not go from wall to wall. The room is about 27ft wide. Some songs will go the whole distance, but this one had the guitar on the left about 5ft from the wall and into the room ahead of the speaker plane, with the horn on the right about 2 feet from the right wall and forward of the plane and further out than the guitar. At least, w/o taking notes, that's what I recall.)

I got a similar aural experience before I fed the 1C with more power and a bona fide pre, but I got massive gains in all areas of impact, quality, and tone as I got better equipment.

So, thoughts?

A common complaint I read was SDA has a wide presentation, but pieces within the soundstage aren't as defined as pure stereo speakers.

I saw that as a possibility when I listened to stock speakers recently. Everything on my stock 1C test sounded great, but some sounds were a little... diffuse when I thought they should've been tighter. I don't experience that particular issue with my modded versions.

But I never feel the sound is gimmicky, my center image is strong, placement across the room is crazy good, and I honestly would pick SDA over regular speakers (for my listening pleasure) all the ding dong day.

- Anyone go back to stereo mains after SDA? If so, why?

- Anyone have cautionary SDA tales for n00bs who come across this thread?

- Anyone care to share anything about how they feel vintage SDA compares to new stereo speakers or the beastly L800?

invalid

I go back and forth between my modded sda2a TL's and my apogee duetta 2's. The apogees do some things better but the sda2a TL's do other things better.

invalid

That album midnight blue was recorded by Rudy van Gelder and is panned almost hard left and hard right, so the sda's produce it perfectly.

xschop

Anything Van Gelder remaster's is SDA goodness because in 2 ch stereo it sounds more expanded than the original.

invalid

How would you know what the original sounds like?

heiney9

I thought when I bought my current L600's to replace my modded SDA 1C's, I'd miss them. I really don't. SDA's are unique and have their own character and presentation. Right now I am enjoying conventional speakers more than I though I would.

I still haven't brought myself to sell the SDA's, but honestly for as big/heavy as both sets of floor standers are, I don't see myself putting them back in the rig for any kind of nostalgic listening. I may hang onto them so when I move into a bigger house I can set up a separate SDA rig.......we'll see.

Right now the L600's are exceptional in my rig w/my new amplifier. I'm just enjoying it.

H9

xschop

Generally speaking, I have heard Alot of original LP's and CDs that weren't remastered by Van Gelder

audioluvr

plastic_avatar wrote: »

- Anyone have cautionary SDA tales for n00bs who come across this thread?

Yes. Don't read this thread.

invalid wrote: »

I go back and forth between my modded sda2a TL's and my apogee duetta 2's. The apogees do some things better but the sda2a TL's do other things better.

Tell me more about your apogees I SO want these but I don't have the ability to move them out in the room like I know they need to sound their best.

F1nut

Yes. Don't read this thread.

Words of wisdom.

invalid

audioluvr wrote: »

plastic_avatar wrote: »

- Anyone have cautionary SDA tales for n00bs who come across this thread?

Yes. Don't read this thread.

invalid wrote: »

I go back and forth between my modded sda2a TL's and my apogee duetta 2's. The apogees do some things better but the sda2a TL's do other things better.

Tell me more about your apogees I SO want these but I don't have the ability to move them out in the room like I know they need to sound their best.

If you can't move them at least 4' into the room, they will not sound great. I have mine just over 82" from the wall behind them.

xschop

F1nut wrote: »

Yes. Don't read this thread.

Words of wisdom.

I've had my 2nd cup of daily grind (quite good I might add). Now I'm ready for the grand enlightenment from my fellow purveyor of personified wisdom with few words.

mhardy6647

It's 2023. Generation 1 of the "SDA" loudspeakers had a good run - a literal generation (i.e., ca. 25 years) ago.

Polk has, in recent years, come out with a couple of lines of thoughtfully designed, reasonably werll built, and reasonably priced loudspeakers including a new generation SDA reboot.
I'd encourage anyone reading this thread to spend some time listening to the modern Polk loudspeakers if you haven't already.

Full disclosure, I was never crazy about the original line(s) of SDA loudspeakers from Polk - but I do like the current L- and R- series Polk-branded loudspeakers I've heard (and, in one case, which I own).

ChrisD06

I've not heard SDAs (only aware of one pair in my province) however I'm curious why people say they artificially warp the soundstage. I've seen quite a few people say this on here and I think on audiokarma (?) as well.

Wouldn't minimizing interaural crosstalk actually let the soundstage be more natural? In theory it'd be the same channel separation as if you were wearing headphones however the difference is you'd get the true soundstage of a loudspeaker. Since I've not heard any SDAs I can't confirm that.

I want to know what people with SDAs think on this.

audioluvr

invalid wrote: »

If you can't move them at least 4' into the room, they will not sound great. I have mine just over 82" from the wall behind them.

Well, I'm out. Maybe some day when I'm done with all my other projects I'll build a listening room in my barn.

xschop

audioluvr wrote: »

invalid wrote: »

If you can't move them at least 4' into the room, they will not sound great. I have mine just over 82" from the wall behind them.

Well, I'm out. Maybe some day when I'm done with all my other projects I'll build a listening room in my barn.

Looks like the SDA's win the placement category.

invalid

audioluvr wrote: »

invalid wrote: »

If you can't move them at least 4' into the room, they will not sound great. I have mine just over 82" from the wall behind them.

Well, I'm out. Maybe some day when I'm done with all my other projects I'll build a listening room in my barn.

I added a 14'×21' addition on my garage, with double 5/8" drywall and 6 dedicated circuits. I wouldn't have been able to use the apogees in my living room.

skipshot12

I’m a recent convert to the SDA’s, about 1 and a half years, but I’ll say something about the soundstage.

I had one sacd recording of Billy Joel that sounded really weird.
I had purchased a whole set of his music that was supposedly recorded from the original masters.
There was one sacd that sounded strange, actually unlistenable. All the rest are beautiful.

Not sure if it’s an SDA thing or that one disc has issues.

Everything else I play sounds great.
Nothing over exaggerated with the soundstage.

Compared to Infinity’s Prelude MTS speaker the soundstage is slightly larger but, center image & instrument placing are excellent on both.
Compared to Infinity Kappa 9’s which have a more closed soundstage, very small difference, but a brighter top end.

The SDA’s have never sounded over emphasized or gimmicky in any way.

Why do you ask?

plastic_avatar

@skipshot12 I had a strong 'Wow, I'm really glad I spent the time I did on the 1C.' moment.

I went back through and read dozens of threads about SDA speakers the past few weeks, and noticed the things I brought up in the original post^ keep coming up.


But those questions aren't answered well in a lot of places. It's not like there's a 'So you got into vintage SDA, this is what to expect.' or even a 'Things to consider when getting into SDA.' warehouse Q&A. So I thought I'd ask some questions.

Soundstage accuracy.

On a stock pair of 1C, with the same crossovers as my modded pair, the soundstage was defined and quite pleasant. Not as razor sharp on some things as my modded pair, but not fuzzy (the way some SDA critics frame it). Maybe a little diffuse? You could definitely point to where sounds were all the way across the sound field.

With my modded pair, the placement of sounds are more solid. There's no fuzziness at all. Wait, scratch that. There is fuzziness on my metal (which I talked about before). It got better as I got better amplification, but those fuzzy, overwhelmingly distorted guitars just smear together on a lot of albums. Take something like Gojira and Rammstein? They're a lot more detailed and enjoyable than other offerings.

For anything else, if the mix is good the presentation is good. If the mix is great, the presentation is great. In a way, I think SDA makes good, better, and great, amazing. And bad, AWFUL.

Gimmicky sound?

Agreed. Not at all for me, either.

It's just more stereo than stereo.

Nothing sounds distorted nor over/under-emphasized. It all sounds just right.

The only things I feel I could benefit from in my current setup are re-capping my amp, maybe a better DAC, and possibly getting my pre refreshed. I wouldn't have to touch my 1C (even though I'll eventually mod more). Until I get blown away by someone else's setup, I won't have any kind of equipment envy.

I loved playing with DSP stuff since my first exposure to it in 1983'ish, but THAT sounds gimmicky. I loved it for decades, but now it sounds... gimmicky. In comparison, SDA doesn't sound gimmicky- period.

skipshot12

Couldn’t agree more, well said.
Carry on….