Legend line a bust...?

New24k

Is the Legend line a bust...?

Don't really hear, or see, much about them anymore - especially since the Reserve line came out...

Polk dropped the Legend pricing shortly after they came out.

No one seems to carry them in their showrooms to demo, etc. (at least not in the Midwest, etc.).

And I think it was a huge mistake for them to use the cheaper veneers of the RTiA line on the new flagship Legends.

nooshinjohn

The Legends are far from a bust...

Emlyn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S2wjSvX2D8

mhardy6647

... or as Crocodile Dundee might've put it:

That's not a bust.



This is a bust.

msg

New24k wrote: »

Is the Legend line a bust...?
Don't really hear, or see, much about them anymore - especially since the Reserve line came out...
Polk dropped the Legend pricing shortly after they came out.
No one seems to carry them in their showrooms to demo, etc. (at least not in the Midwest, etc.).

As others have said, no, the Legend series is not a bust. The Legend series offers design differences and sound improvements over the Reserve. Each speaker has its place.

I get it, though - If you're out there and you don't have the opportunity to hear both for yourself, you're at the mercy of reviewers and reviews.

When all the Reserve reviews were coming out and everyone was stunned with the performance, talking about how great they are and how it didn't make sense to spend for the Legend, I immediately wondered just how many reviewers touting the Reserve line actually had experience with both the Legend and Reserve series for comparison, and with both powered properly. I'd hazard a guess to say very, very few.

There is a difference. If a person has only ever heard the Reserve, they might be perfectly happy. Even if that person were to hear the Legend, if they were powering the speakers with an AVR or were only using them for HT, or any number of other factors throttling the Legends' performance, they might not notice the difference, or might not feel it worthwhile to spring for them.

New24k wrote: »

And I think it was a huge mistake for them to use the cheaper veneers of the RTiA line on the new flagship Legends.

As opposed to what? Like the finish on the LSiM series?

New24k

msg wrote: »

New24k wrote: »

Is the Legend line a bust...?
Don't really hear, or see, much about them anymore - especially since the Reserve line came out...
Polk dropped the Legend pricing shortly after they came out.
No one seems to carry them in their showrooms to demo, etc. (at least not in the Midwest, etc.).

As others have said, no, the Legend series is not a bust. The Legend series offers design differences and sound improvements over the Reserve. Each speaker has its place.

I get it, though - If you're out there and you don't have the opportunity to hear both for yourself, you're at the mercy of reviewers and reviews.

When all the Reserve reviews were coming out and everyone was stunned with the performance, talking about how great they are and how it didn't make sense to spend for the Legend, I immediately wondered just how many reviewers touting the Reserve line actually had experience with both the Legend and Reserve series for comparison, and with both powered properly. I'd hazard a guess to say very, very few.

There is a difference. If a person has only ever heard the Reserve, they might be perfectly happy. Even if that person were to hear the Legend, if they were powering the speakers with an AVR or were only using them for HT, or any number of other factors throttling the Legends' performance, they might not notice the difference, or might not feel it worthwhile to spring for them.

New24k wrote: »

And I think it was a huge mistake for them to use the cheaper veneers of the RTiA line on the new flagship Legends.

As opposed to what? Like the finish on the LSiM series?

Yeah, a more "upscale" finish for your flagship speakers...

Not just using your second-tier veneers (RTiA) now on your flagship speakers.

TBH, I think that is one reason they are not selling well - and why Polk had to reduce their original retail prices by 15-20%.

nooshinjohn

Where exactly are you getting your bad information from? Unless you are privy to internal data from Polk, that you are legally allowed to disclose without facing a court case over, I would advise you to simply let this go and walk away from your keyboard.

New24k

Wow... seemed to ruffle some feathers of some ultra-polk fanboys...

Sorry...

txcoastal1

You want a veneer upgrade
The look at Dynaudio, or Rosso

And yes you pay for it

F1nut

When you show up talking out your arse you should expect to be put in your place regardless.

FYI, I like Polk...heck I like a lot of different gear, but that doesn't make me a fanboy for any of them.

nooshinjohn

New24k wrote: »

Wow... seemed to ruffle some feathers of some ultra-polk fanboys...

Sorry...

If you were to come here with a complaint about a Polk product that wasn’t working properly even customer support or host of other issues, this forum would rally behind you and help you even to find a warranty support or return your product. When you come in here, barking at the moon and spewing made up information that you can’t possibly know any answer to, then you can expect us to set you straight straight and do so quickly.

More than being loyal to the Polk Audio brand, we are loyal to each other as members of this forum and mis-information such as yours needs to stop. Left unchecked, such information can do damage to those seeking good information and prevent others from making an otherwise smart and educated choice for their listening pleasure.

New24k

F1nut wrote: »

When you show up talking out your arse you should expect to be put in your place regardless.

FYI, I like Polk...heck I like a lot of different gear, but that doesn't make me a fanboy for any of them.

OK.. "President of Club Polk"...

And one look at your profile pic, and your post count, speaks volumes...

But, as far as "talking out of my arse"...

The Legend does not look as good as the LSiM - The LSiM was a very good looking speaker for Polk - my opinion (and the opinion of a vast amount of others)...

Polk shouldn't have cheapened out on the finish - and used their second-tier RTiA black ash and a very similar "walnut" - again, my opinion...

Make your flagship speakers look like flagship speakers.

And as far as Polk reducing the prices of the Legend line by 15-20% after launch - it's fact.

You can't find these anywhere to demo - at least not in the Midwest...

Best Buy lists these on their website - but won't even stock these in their regional warehouses...

And according to a Crutchfield rep. these aren't selling.

F1nut

You smell funny.

msg

New24k wrote: »

Yeah, a more "upscale" finish for your flagship speakers...

Not just using your second-tier veneers (RTiA) now on your flagship speakers.

TBH, I think that is one reason they are not selling well - and why Polk had to reduce their original retail prices by 15-20%.

I don't really know what an upscale finish would be. Haven't had that many speakers, though.

I will say that I preferred the finish on the LSiM speakers over L200. The L200s feel a bit cheap to me compared to the LSiM703, but they do sound better.

This isn't why they're discounted though. I started with Polk in 2013. I've seen all the lines go through the progressive price reduction. Look at where the LSiM started and where it ended up for inventory clearance when the new lines were coming out. It takes years, and the company was different back when the LSiM was released. I haven't seen a price reduction schedule for each line for comparison.

Polk probably shot themselves in the foot with the Reserve series in using same/similar components. They're "good enough" for a lot of people, but in my experience with L200, L800, and R200s, the R200s don't match the L200 at all. The legend series is for 2ch enthusiasts, period. The Reserve series is good, but is more an all-rounder for HT and music, and/or for owners not wanting to spend for the Legend. It is a lesser performing speaker, though, with respect to audio quality.

Order them both, burn both pair in for 200hrs, feed them quality power, and decide for yourself. Return the ones you like least.

If you're more concerned with finishing than sound quality and the Legends aren't worth it to you due to exterior build gripes but you still want to buy Polk, get the Reserve series, or even Signatures. Especially if for combo system use, and/or using an AVR.

But yeah, maybe chill on the smarmy remarks. Comes across a bit reddit-warrior-y. Speculative/assumptive stated as if fact.

Best Buy is no authority for quality audio. I'm not surprised the Legends aren't there, and wouldn't expect them to be. Maybe if it was a Magnolia shop. I like Crutchfield, but what does it mean that one of their reps says they're not selling? Nothing, really.

F1nut

So, funny smelling one let me clue you in.

The LSiM cherry and midnight mahogany were not high quality veneer and the cherry wasn't even cherry veneer. The veneer was a very inexpensive Asian mahogany. To obtain the cherry color a toner was mixed in with the clear coat and sprayed on. It has an unnatural orange cast. The midnight mahogany was done with a black toner sprayed over the cherry toner. The result shows purple in good
light. Hardly top tier veneer or color.

On the other hand, the RTiA speakers used real cherry veneer with the ash version finished in black. Bottom line, much higher quality veneer. In fact, the cherry versions are about as nice as it gets with the perfect cherry tone/color.

msg

I did not know that about the LSiM veneer material! I do remember feeling really put off when my first set of LSiM 703s arrived. I'd seen the cherry finishes on the RTi series speakers previously, and thought the Mount Vernon Cherry was going to be similar, only in the curvy cabs.

Once I got them set up, I remember thinking to myself, these things just look like big orange blocks... I'm not sure about this. This is saying a lot, because I really like orange.

I could barely make out any character in the wood, and had to get really close to do so. Not at all what I was expecting, and I remember feeling disappointed and a bit anxious about the situation. I'd never spent so much money on stereo gear before these speakers, and wasn't sure what to do, as it turned out that I bought them from an unauthorized dealer on Ebay, which explained the discounted price. I was pretty ignant at the time. The contact almost wouldn't let me return them, but he did in the end, since I just wanted to exchange for the Midnight Eggplant (mahogany). Much better suited, but it cost me.

I had to pay the return shipping, and a restocking fee since they could not resell them as new.

So were they all orange to begin with, and the black toner went over the MVC color formula to make the MM finish?

F1nut

So were they all orange to begin with, and the black toner went over the MVC color formula to make the MM finish?

Yep

msg

Huht. That's in'tresting.

Clipdat

New24k wrote: »

Polk shouldn't have cheapened out on the finish - and used their second-tier RTiA black ash and a very similar "walnut" - again, my opinion...

I find it strange that you would comment about the walnut veneer on the Legend series, having never seen them in person as you stated.

I have the L200 in walnut, and the veneer is understated and gorgeous. It also appears to be very high quality.

TroyD

Figure that the Legend line has also been out, what, 4 or 5 years now? That's a helluva run.

Gee, come to a Polk forum and throw out some unsubstantiated garbage and NOT expect some blowback?

Crackpot.

Unless you have something substantive to say or contribute....why not get lost?

VR3

I dig the walnut veneer. On the pair Troy has of the L800, one of them has an incredible grain pattern

stangman67

I too think the walnut is gorgeous. Having had multiple sets of LSIM speakers, I think the final product of the finish was gorgeous as well but obviously a substandard process was used. Gotta understand that these aren’t 20k speakers. Concessions have to be made, and I think the finish is quite appropriate for the price on the legends.

New24k

The Legend series was launched Oct. 1, 2019 - so just under 4 years now.

Polk gave them a 15%-20% price reduction shortly after launch - not something you do if your product is selling - especially when Polk actually increased the price of their Reserve series shortly after their launch - which is selling.

As stated by MANY - they liked the finish and color (at least in the midnight mahogany) of the LSiM series much better than the finish of the black ash and walnut colors (which almost every cheaper speaker has). The finishes on the Legends looks like every other cheaper speaker - the smooth finish on the LSiMs did not, etc.

No one (a very, very few?) has the Legends on display or to demo - Best Buy/Magnolia (the largest retailer of speakers in the US) has them listed on their website (with just 2 reviews in almost 4 years) - and doesn't/won't stock them at their regional warehouses, etc. If they were a product that sold, you can damn well be guaranteed that Best Buy/Magnolia would be stocking them at their warehouses.

And according to Crutchfield (the largest online retailer of speakers, along with Amazon), the Legends, according to a rep., were not, and are not, selling.

Sorry the majority of you don't' like the facts - it seems to be a popular thing in today's America - if the facts go against your opinions, just ignore them.

If Polk really want's to rejuvenate the Legend series (if it is not already too late) - they should do what they did with the Reserve R200 Anniversary Edition - and come out with a complete Legend series new, upscale, finish befitting a flagship speaker- in both the light (R200 Anniversary Edition) and dark cherry, etc. option - now that would sell.

This will be my last post on the subject - I will be un-following it after this - as this forum does not seem conducive to a constructive dialog - just a lot of fanboys throwing juvenile insults at anyone who dares to have a different opinion than them, or mentions facts that they don't like.

stangman67

Lol. Must be hard being angry all the time, just because one dude at one online store said they aren’t selling, it must automatically mean they are a bust.

Also inaccuracies in your post make you look uninformed on the subject. Midnight Cherry is not a finish of the LSIM line. Midnight Mahogany and Cherry. You can go ahead and backup those lofty statements though, where are these many that liked the finish on the LSIM better? They are both nice finishes in my opinion.

daddyjt

New24k wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

When you show up talking out your arse you should expect to be put in your place regardless.

FYI, I like Polk...heck I like a lot of different gear, but that doesn't make me a fanboy for any of them.

..

Best Buy lists these on their website - but won't even stock these in their regional warehouses...

Wait - Best Buy still sells audio gear??

F1nut

Still smells funny...

Emlyn

If Massimo (new corporate owners) found the Legends were not meeting sales targets they'd change something. They haven't. Polk has always discounted their speakers from MSRP, and that's especially true with the Reserve line too. People don't like thinking they're paying full price on things.

My guess is we're a couple years away from a refresh of the Legends since most speaker manufacturers do a refresh or replacement a few years after introducing a new line. Their calculus on whether to simply take the Reserve speakers and put wood veneer on them might include whether the anniversary edition R200 met sales expectations, how expensive new models would have to be, and what's predicted to be in style for a few years after introduction. Black is always in style.

TroyD

So, your basing this on ONE guy who sells for Crutchfield....which probably means, at best, that he works in a call center. Well. Gee. Maybe we should rethink all this....

Finish? Eye of the beholder.....

MSRP on a pair of L800's is 6K. Not chump change...but in the world of high end, it's VERY entry level high end therefore subject to building to a price point. I'd argue that the fit and finish actually hits above it's weight. Look at the speakers in and around it's price range and your argument doesn't hold water. Now, YOU may not like the finish...and that's fine...but to say it doesn't hold it's own with the competition is simply not true.

Constructive dialog? Blow it out your zorch.

You are passing out your opinion as gospel and you are offering up one guy from Crutchfield. Whereas, those of us who have a passing knowledge can tell you from a business perspective....if the Legend series were the bust you claim, they probably would have ceased production, not submitted them for reviews (which have gotten positive press...the bookshelves in particular) and would be blowing them out on their website. Which, in case you haven't noticed, is where most hifi commerce is done these days. I suppose, based on the fact you can't go to ANY dealer and listed to a pair of PS Audio's FR30's that they must suck too.

Crackpot.

msg

New24k wrote: »

The Legend series was launched Oct. 1, 2019 - so just under 4 years now.

Polk gave them a 15%-20% price reduction shortly after launch - not something you do if your product is selling - especially when Polk actually increased the price of their Reserve series shortly after their launch - which is selling.

As stated by MANY - they liked the finish and color (at least in the midnight mahogany) of the LSiM series much better than the finish of the black ash and walnut colors (which almost every cheaper speaker has). The finishes on the Legends looks like every other cheaper speaker - the smooth finish on the LSiMs did not, etc.

No one (a very, very few?) has the Legends on display or to demo - Best Buy/Magnolia (the largest retailer of speakers in the US) has them listed on their website (with just 2 reviews in almost 4 years) - and doesn't/won't stock them at their regional warehouses, etc. If they were a product that sold, you can damn well be guaranteed that Best Buy/Magnolia would be stocking them at their warehouses.

And according to Crutchfield (the largest online retailer of speakers, along with Amazon), the Legends, according to a rep., were not, and are not, selling.

Sorry the majority of you don't' like the facts - it seems to be a popular thing in today's America - if the facts go against your opinions, just ignore them.

If Polk really want's to rejuvenate the Legend series (if it is not already too late) - they should do what they did with the Reserve R200 Anniversary Edition - and come out with a complete Legend series new, upscale, finish befitting a flagship speaker- in both the light (R200 Anniversary Edition) and dark cherry, etc. option - now that would sell.

This will be my last post on the subject - I will be un-following it after this - as this forum does not seem conducive to a constructive dialog - just a lot of fanboys throwing juvenile insults at anyone who dares to have a different opinion than them, or mentions facts that they don't like.

What was the point of this thread again? I forget. A discussion in answer to the question of whether the Legend line is a bust? And the community responded overwhelmingly to say that no, it's not a bust, and you don't like that answer or the reasons for it, or people taking issue with your assumptions and speculative statements with no significant supporting info?

It's not "facts" that people don't like, dude, it's the stretched liberties you've taken against the line, and your attitude.

I see you've been here since 2015, but you're not really active in the forum. That's a shame.


Re: Best Buy again - curious, which speakers do you see available for you to demo nearby?
Are the Reserves there? I'm curious to know what level of speakers, brands and quality you're seeing in store these days. I've not been inside a Best Buy for 3 years at least.


Here's a thought on lack of stock. People don't shop like they used to, and you likely don't either. You'd likely walk in to your local Best Buy to listen to gear you want, take up an associate's time, at least an hour or two. Once you're satisfied and have been able to reach a decision, you'd politely thank the associate for taking the time to help you, telling him you're going to think about it. Then you'd go home and directly order the same stuff online somewhere else to save money, essentially stealing service and knowledge from Best Buy. Lots of people do this. It's not sustainable for any business. It's one of the contributing factors for why electronics shops closed up, and likely a main factor for why shops like Best Buy don't bother stocking some merchandise.

The Legends cost more than the Reserves. They weren't as heavily reviewed as the Reserve series because they were out of reach for some people when they debuted. I get that. I wasn't able to get them at first, either. The Reserve series got a lot of attention and, to my knowledge, not a lot of direct, hands on comparison between the two lines, consequently, incorrect assumptions made and conclusions drawn. It's that simple. Cost, and lack of experience with both lines.

You just keep saying the same thing over and over again. So I ask again - I like Crutchfield, but what does it mean that a Crutchfield rep said the Legend series was not and is not selling?

I also said that it may have been a mistake for Polk to design the Reserve series so similar in design to some of the Legend counterparts. The Reserves are "good enough" for most, especially if a person hasn't heard them both properly broken in and properly driven. (You're not going to get that in a Best Buy, btw.) There are others who've heard both series and are able to appreciate the benefits.

Here's an example.
The R200 features a different port than the L200. This simple design difference alone presents a placement limitation. The Legend 200 bookshelf uses the original Power Port, which diffuses port airflow out to the sides instead of straight out the back like the R200's X-Port. This means that the L200 can be placed closer to a wall without the sound quality issues that occur with direct rear porting, say, right into a wall. I've experienced this directly. The R200 absolutely sucked in the same space and same system as the L200. I was able to get the R200 to work nicely in a very specific configuration, which required it to be well out from any walls. This alone was a reason for me to choose the Legend 200 over the Reserve 200, and this doesn't even factor in the sound presentation of the L200.

For the sake of context and curiosity, how did that statement about how the Legends have not and are not selling come up with Crutchfield? And what did the Crutchfield rep say was selling? Was the Crutchfield rep just trying to guide you to the Reserve over the Legend? or were you guys just hanging out chewing the fat?

F1nut

Ooh that smell
Can't you smell that smell
Ooh that smell
The smell of arse surrounds you

TroyD

F1nut wrote: »

Ooh that smell
Can't you smell that smell
Ooh that smell
The smell of arse surrounds you

SAY IT!!!!