Amperex 7316 long plate 12au7 tube

pglbook

I am looking for a 1950s Amperex (Holland made) 7316 long plate 12au7 tube. I only need one for my Eastern Electric Minimax preamp. Should test good.

GlennDog

I'm not (at all) familiar with the 7316 . . . but you might wanna look into this . . . reasonable prices

I've delt with them before. Good outfit and reliable ... was my experience

No affil

https://www.nostubestore.com/search/label/ECC82/12AU7 - EUROPEAN BRANDS

Valvo/Philips/Amperex ECC82 Holland
Made by Philips-Amperex Heerlen/Holland factory. Labeled for Hewlett Packard and Valvo. These early and mid 60's production tubes of Heerlen Factory in Holland were marketed in the USA under the brandname of Amperex. One of the best and most sought-after European ECC82s ever made. Very good sound stage and balanced sound. Matched pair and quads available.

Quantity is Stock : Pull-out tubes tested like new are available only!
Price: US$ 39.00/each; US$ 84.00/matched pair

pglbook

GlennDog wrote: »

I'm not (at all) familiar with the 7316 . . . but you might wanna look into this . . . reasonable prices

I've delt with them before. Good outfit and reliable ... was my experience

No affil

https://www.nostubestore.com/search/label/ECC82/12AU7 - EUROPEAN BRANDS

Thanks for the response and tip. I currently have some nice late 1950s and early 1960s Valvo, RCA clear tops, RCA black tops, and a few other 12au7s that I rotate in my MiniMax pre. The nice thing about the Eastern Electric MiniMax is that, although it uses two 12au7 tubes, one can use different 12au7s in it. It is great for tube rolling. I love the pre. My only minor complaint is that it has high gain to it. I am curious whether different 12au7 tubes may help with that.

I am interested in the Amperex 7316 because it has the reputation of being the best sounding (as well as rarest and, unfortunately, expensive) 12au7 tube, according to many, including Brent Jessee and also to our very own PF tube expert, heiney.

GlennDog

pglbook wrote: »

I am looking for a 1950s Amperex (Holland made) 7316 long plate 12au7 tube. I only need one for my EE Minimax

good thing one tube will do. A quad could get expensive . . . quick!

audioluvr

I see them in ebag all the time. I'm just not willing to pay the exorbitant amount they want for them.

heiney9

Good luck. I have a pair and I guess "the best ever" is in the ears of the listener. I didn't think they sounded any different than a regular Holland made 50's long plate. They command a very premium price and IMO, unless you get a deal the $$$ just isn't worth it.

But I spent 10-12 years hunting, finding, buying, experiencing tubes so I get where you're coming from as far as wanting to "try" it for yourself.

You may already know, but pay attention to the tube codes. A real long plate 7316 with have a manufactures code (top line) of Ct0 or Ct1. IIRC the Ct2, 3, 4, etc and higher are the short plate version. If the build code is anything other than Ct(x) it's not a true 7316.

Good luck on hunting one for a reasonable price.

H9

P.s. I bought mine at a very good price, so I am not selling them. They are part of my collection.

pglbook

heiney9 wrote: »

Good luck. I have a pair and I guess "the best ever" is in the ears of the listener. I didn't think they sounded any different than a regular Holland made 50's long plate. They command a very premium price and IMO, unless you get a deal the $$$ just isn't worth it.

But I spent 10-12 years hunting, finding, buying, experiencing tubes so I get where you're coming from as far as wanting to "try" it for yourself.

You may already know, but pay attention to the tube codes. A real long plate 7316 with have a manufactures code (top line) of Ct0 or Ct1. IIRC the Ct2, 3, 4, etc and higher are the short plate version. If the build code is anything other than Ct(x) it's not a true 7316.

Good luck on hunting one for a reasonable price.

H9

P.s. I bought mine at a very good price, so I am not selling them. They are part of my collection.

Thanks for the response. I was hoping to hear from you and your deep knowledge of tubes. It is good to know that regular Holland made 50s long plates are just as good as the 7316. Are the any other tubes you can recommend for my EE MiniMax preamp, mainly for the amplification stage as I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that has the greatest effect on the sound? I believe you also had a MiniMax. My only (minor) issue with the MiniMax is that it has high gain. Are there any 12au7 tubes that may help to tame the high gain of the MiniMax or do tubes not have any effect on gain? As you can see, I am pretty much a tube newbie but am learning and I have learned a lot from you in the past. I currently have a 1957 Amperex 12au7 long plate D getter w/foil, as well as a 1957 RCA Conn label 12au7, in the MiniMax. I may have even bought the Amperex tube from you. I know I got it from a Polk Forum member a few years ago. I really like the sound that those tubes impart but I would like to try some other tubes since the MiniMax is so great for tube rolling. The other tubes I currently have in storage are the following: some 1950s RCA black plate D getter tubes and a matched pair of 1959 Valvo short plates. How are those? Are there any other 12au7s you can recommend for the MiniMax? Thanks again. Great to hear from you. Hope all is well.

pitdogg2

IIRC all 12au7 tubes have a gain of 20, if it were a 12ax which has a gain of 100, in that case you could go to a 5751 which has a gain of 70.
The 12au has the lowest gain of the 12** series. In order of gain it would be 12au, 12at and 12ax with the highest gain factor.

Is there a particular problem that bugs you? I found when I had the Dared SL2000 that old non Russian Mullards gave it the sweet spot. That puppy was a gain monster.

pglbook

pitdogg2 wrote: »

IIRC all 12au7 tubes have a gain of 20, if it were a 12ax which has a gain of 100, in that case you could go to a 5751 which has a gain of 70.
The 12au has the lowest gain of the 12** series. In order of gain it would be 12au, 12at and 12ax with the highest gain factor.

Is there a particular problem that bugs you? I found when I had the Dared SL2000 that old non Russian Mullards gave it the sweet spot. That puppy was a gain monster.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it.

My only minor issue with the MiniMax is its high gain. It seems that different 12au7 tubes won't have an effect on the preamp's gain although, as you say, different tubes can affect sound, such as Mullard tubes having a warmer sound than some other 12au7 tubes.

The only thing that bothers me about the MiniMax is that, at times, I am not able to turn its volume control past 1 or 2 while playing a CD because the music is that loud. But I think that also has to do a lot with compressed CDs. It is a combination of the preamp's high gain and compressed CDs. With the high gain of the EE MiniMax, it is hard to move the volume control past 2 when playing a CD that is too compressed, as the music sounds very loud at a low volume. Vinyl playback is much better since most vinyl is not compressed like a lot of CDs were/are.

Thanks again.

heiney9

That was the one thing I disliked about the Mini-max was the gain. I never found a combination of tubes that really lowered it. I know the Tom Tutay modded ones had lower gain. As you say with a hot recording you don't move the volume knob hardly at all.

The EE Avant pre I have has a variable gain nob on the front for one of the tube stages, and it works pretty well. But it doesn't have a gain issue like the Mini-Max pre.

H9

pglbook

heiney9 wrote: »

That was the one thing I disliked about the Mini-max was the gain. I never found a combination of tubes that really lowered it. I know the Tom Tutay modded ones had lower gain. As you say with a hot recording you don't move the volume knob hardly at all.

The EE Avant pre I have has a variable gain nob on the front for one of the tube stages, and it works pretty well. But it doesn't have a gain issue like the Mini-Max pre.

H9

Thanks. The MinMax is a great pre but the high gain is definitely an issue, especially on compressed CDs. A couple of years ago I had thought about getting the Tom Tutay mods done on my MinMax to lower the gain. However, another PF member who had the mods done on his MiniMax, recommended that I not do so. He told me that, although the mods lowered the gain, they also affected the MinMax' sound quality for the worse.

I would love to get an EE Avant but they are super rare. I have not seen one come up for sale in the 3+ years I have been looking. Please let me know if you ever see one for sale or if you ever decide to sell your Avant.

Thanks again. Take care.

snow

Hi I seen your post and wanted to share my opinion on the various 12AU7 types out there, I have a small head phone amp that uses a single 12AU7 tube and have been lucky enough to listen to many 12AU7 types including the CBS 7730 Telefunken 802S Mullard 12AU7's of every type including the 10M series and virtually every RCA Sylvania Raytheon GE 6189 5814 6680 variant ever made and my two favorites of all of them were the RCA 6680 and the Raytheon CK 5814A Triple mica D getter tube. Both are much cheaper then the 7316 tubes made by Amperex and sound better to my ears of course we all hear sound differently and prefer one type over the other, like our taste in music it is very subjective what I like you may not there is no wrong opinion because our taste is different.

Someday I may do a roadshow with a pair of 12AU7 Tubes of various types so anyone interested can hear for them selves the differences in types perhaps get 12 people interested and put together a package of tubes that each person can listen to for a month then send to the next person in line and so on until they get returned to me a year later

pitdogg2

For my personal taste I can agree with you somewhat @snow. I have found the Raytheon 5814 triple mica windmill getter some fine ear medicine. You've passed along some fine tubes over the years @snow, I'm a little envious of the tubes you have had.
My surprise was a quad of 1968 grey plate Sylvania 6189's that proved pretty stellar as well.

snow

pitdogg2 wrote: »

For my personal taste I can agree with you somewhat @snow. I have found the Raytheon 5814 triple mica windmill getter some fine ear medicine. You've passed along some fine tubes over the years @snow, I'm a little envious of the tubes you have had.
My surprise was a quad of 1968 grey plate Sylvania 6189's that proved pretty stellar as well.

Yes the windmill getter Raytheon tubes are loved by most who hear them and Sylvania has always made very musical tubes, one of the things I personally love about tubes is that you can alter the sound of the music greatly by changing the tubes and usually much easier and cheaper then changing components, I also recommend trying tubes that may be cheaper because they test low before buying more expensive high testing or NOS tubes the low testing ones will sound the same and usually last for quite some time, this allows a person on a budget to try more tubes before committing to buying the more expensive ones.

I have been very lucky to have heard most 12AU7 Types I think likely the rarest ones were made by CBS the 7318/SA312 variant they are almost impossible to locate here are a couple pics of them.





Regards

heiney9

The 7318 is about the only tube I've never owned in the 12AU7/ECC82 family. I was never able to find them at in my mind a good price. Always very expensive. I'm sure there are others I haven't heard, but I've heard most.

The Raytheon 5814 is one of my faves, as is the real deal CBS 5814. I have found early Brimar tubes to be sleepers.

H9

pitdogg2

I have found early Brimar tubes to be sleepers.

For Sure !

snow

heiney9 wrote: »

The 7318 is about the only tube I've never owned in the 12AU7/ECC82 family. I was never able to find them at in my mind a good price. Always very expensive. I'm sure there are others I haven't heard, but I've heard most.

The Raytheon 5814 is one of my faves, as is the real deal CBS 5814. I have found early Brimar tubes to be sleepers.

H9

Not surprising about the early Brimar tubes it seems to me at least that between the 40's through 60's was the peak of tube technology and the various European tube makers were among the best in the world, certainly US tube makers have made some fabulous tubes also but European tubes as a rule have been very good. I am just thankful that they made enough tubes of great quality that we can still 60-80 years later enjoy them even though some are pricey, music is something that is priceless to me.

Regards Snow

pglbook

heiney9 wrote: »

The 7318 is about the only tube I've never owned in the 12AU7/ECC82 family. I was never able to find them at in my mind a good price. Always very expensive. I'm sure there are others I haven't heard, but I've heard most.

The Raytheon 5814 is one of my faves, as is the real deal CBS 5814. I have found early Brimar tubes to be sleepers.

H9

snow wrote: »

heiney9 wrote: »

The 7318 is about the only tube I've never owned in the 12AU7/ECC82 family. I was never able to find them at in my mind a good price. Always very expensive. I'm sure there are others I haven't heard, but I've heard most.

The Raytheon 5814 is one of my faves, as is the real deal CBS 5814. I have found early Brimar tubes to be sleepers.

H9

Not surprising about the early Brimar tubes it seems to me at least that between the 40's through 60's was the peak of tube technology and the various European tube makers were among the best in the world, certainly US tube makers have made some fabulous tubes also but European tubes as a rule have been very good. I am just thankful that they made enough tubes of great quality that we can still 60-80 years later enjoy them even though some are pricey, music is something that is priceless to me.

Regards Snow

heiney and snow, thank for the great tube recommendations. I think I will forgo my quest for the 7316 white whale and search instead for Raytheon or CBS 5814 tubes. Or Brimar tubes. Are there any particular years (1950s?) I should be looking for? Also, I did a google search and also looked at Brent Jessee's website and noticed that, besides 5814, there is also a 5814A. What is the difference between the 5814 and 5814A? Will either of those work in my stock EE MiniMax preamp. Thanks again for the great advice.

pglbook

Guess what? I just checked my tube stash and found that I have a matched pair of JAN 5814A tubes. Mfg. by Sylvania. Made in U.S.A. The tube boxes say: "Date packed 11-67. Similar to the CV-4016." It looks it is a 1967, and not 1950s, 5814A. Are these any good? I will try one in my MiniMax in the near future. I forgot I had those.

pitdogg2

Here's some good reading. It doesn't get to a good explanation for the 5814 vs 5814a, in the 12xx series it mainly had to do with the filament. Personally I wouldn't get too hung up on it both will work just fine. For audio I do not believe there's an advantage to either for our purposes.

https://the-equivalent.com/5814-tube-equivalent/

pglbook

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Here's some good reading. It doesn't get to a good explanation for the 5814 vs 5814a, in the 12xx series it mainly had to do with the filament. Personally I wouldn't get too hung up on it both will work just fine. For audio I do not believe there's an advantage to either for our purposes.

https://the-equivalent.com/5814-tube-equivalent/

Thanks for the great article. I just read it and learned a lot! I have found that reading about tubes can get complex pretty fast but that was written in a very straight forward and easy-to-understand language. Thanks again.

snow

pglbook wrote: »

heiney9 wrote: »

The 7318 is about the only tube I've never owned in the 12AU7/ECC82 family. I was never able to find them at in my mind a good price. Always very expensive. I'm sure there are others I haven't heard, but I've heard most.

The Raytheon 5814 is one of my faves, as is the real deal CBS 5814. I have found early Brimar tubes to be sleepers.

H9

snow wrote: »

heiney9 wrote: »

The 7318 is about the only tube I've never owned in the 12AU7/ECC82 family. I was never able to find them at in my mind a good price. Always very expensive. I'm sure there are others I haven't heard, but I've heard most.

The Raytheon 5814 is one of my faves, as is the real deal CBS 5814. I have found early Brimar tubes to be sleepers.

H9

Not surprising about the early Brimar tubes it seems to me at least that between the 40's through 60's was the peak of tube technology and the various European tube makers were among the best in the world, certainly US tube makers have made some fabulous tubes also but European tubes as a rule have been very good. I am just thankful that they made enough tubes of great quality that we can still 60-80 years later enjoy them even though some are pricey, music is something that is priceless to me.

Regards Snow

heiney and snow, thank for the great tube recommendations. I think I will forgo my quest for the 7316 white whale and search instead for Raytheon or CBS 5814 tubes. Or Brimar tubes. Are there any particular years (1950s?) I should be looking for? Also, I did a google search and also looked at Brent Jessee's website and noticed that, besides 5814, there is also a 5814A. What is the difference between the 5814 and 5814A? Will either of those work in my stock EE MiniMax preamp. Thanks again for the great advice.

Your welcome the 5814A draws 25 mili amp more current then the standard 12AU7 does and is an industrial version of the 12AU7 other then that there is no difference between the tubes much like a 6189

pglbook wrote: »

Guess what? I just checked my tube stash and found that I have a matched pair of JAN 5814A tubes. Mfg. by Sylvania. Made in U.S.A. The tube boxes say: "Date packed 11-67. Similar to the CV-4016." It looks it is a 1967, and not 1950s, 5814A. Are these any good? I will try one in my MiniMax in the near future. I forgot I had those.

The Sylvania 5814A tubes should sound good Sylvania made some very musical sounding tubes IMHO let us know what you think, the Mullard 10M series 12AU7 tubes sound very good also but are scarce and pricey, they have the typical warm sound Phillips tubes have such as Amperex Valvo Mullard Radio Technique Mini Watt ETC but also have all the clarity and detail of a Telefunken so you get the best of both worlds a very unique sounding tube to my ears. GL with your search.

Regards Snow