I have some 12-ish-year-old TSi200 speakers in my family room. Crossover upgrade question.
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WyleyR
Posts: 10
I have some 12-year-old TSi200 speakers in my family room. Given their age, I want to upgrade the crossovers, specifically the capacitors. I can't imagine that the resistors need replacing.
I'm leaning toward the Jantzen Standard-Z capacitors of the same capacitance rating that they're replacing. Has anyone here done this upgrade? Any advice?
Does anyone have a schematic for this speaker? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.
I'm leaning toward the Jantzen Standard-Z capacitors of the same capacitance rating that they're replacing. Has anyone here done this upgrade? Any advice?
Does anyone have a schematic for this speaker? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.
Comments
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Have you noticed an audible degradation in performance that has lead you to suspect the crossover components have started to drift out of specification?
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If you haven’t noticed any type of issues with the sound, I’d probably just leave them alone. They are a decent everyday speaker, not sure if they are really worth going through the crossover unless you have issues2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
I haven't noticed significant degradation, although I imagine it would be a gradual change over time. I've read electrolytic capacitors can degrade over time and have their performance change as well, which in theory could mean differences between the two speakers.
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Yeah, fair. I'm usually a big proponent of crossover upgrades, but in this case I would suggest saving up and putting the money toward a pair of Legend L100 or L200, or even Reserve R100 or R200.
Any of these will dramatically outperform the TSi200, in my opinion. -
Nail on the head drew. Take the 50 bucks you’d spend upgrading the crossovers and squirrel it away and pick up some
R200’s if you are truly after a gain in performance. I’d argue at 200/pair the TSI200’s are a run until they die speaker and then go climb the upgrade tree.
With that said not everyone is like us addicts here, so if you are completely happy with the performance of the TSI’s, I’d still say run them until you hear something strange. 11 years is in the grand scheme of things, not very long for a capacitor unless they have been massively abused2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
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Agreed on the R200. Read the "spinorama" results on them and they seem pretty good.
At this point, rather than dropping the cash on the R200, I'd just like to squeeze the most I can out of these TSi200s. The big question is, of course, will new capacitors in the crossover improve the sound to at least what they were when they were new? And of course, the million dollar question is, would better capacitors than factory improve the speakers at all over new-from-the-factory?
Edit: a word. -
stangman67 wrote: »Nail on the head drew. Take the 50 bucks you’d spend upgrading the crossovers and squirrel it away and pick up some
R200’s if you are truly after a gain in performance. I’d argue at 200/pair the TSI200’s are a run until they die speaker and then go climb the upgrade tree.
With that said not everyone is like us addicts here, so if you are completely happy with the performance of the TSI’s, I’d still say run them until you hear something strange. 11 years is in the grand scheme of things, not very long for a capacitor unless they have been massively abused
You make some good points. They haven't exactly been abused. Perhaps played pretty loudly at times, but that's what they're for of course. -
I'll relate an experience with upgrading a budget speaker. While not your budget speakers I believe the results would be similar.
The Standard Z isn't a good choice, IMO as they accentuate the sibilant sounds of S and T. The Superior Z is a better choice.
Resistors absolutely make a different. Sand cast resistors are crap. Non-inductive wire wound resistors can be dirt cheap.
So, I upgraded a budget speaker using Clarity CSA and Mills resistors. IIRC, I upgraded the inductors as well. The tweeter was upgraded, sound damping added, chassis wire upgraded, binding posts upgraded, etc. The result was an improvement over stock, but nothing I would call impressive. In the end it was a fun experiment, but a waste of time and money. I sold them and replaced them with a better stock speaker, in which I also upgraded the components with much better results.
Basically, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Basically, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
Although then at least the pig would be pretty!?!
If I absolutely wanted to go ahead with the project, what brand of reasonably budget-friendly would you (and everyone else here) recommend I go with? I like the idea of getting capacitors that won't really degrade over time like (apparently) electrolytic capacitors do.
I guess I could consider new resistors too, but I didn't know they degrade over time assuming they're not actually damaged.
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The Clarity CSA 250V version would be a good choice.
It's not that sand cast resistors degrade, they don't. It's that they are crap to begin with. Mills are a good choice.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
It's not that sand cast resistors degrade, they don't. It's that they are crap to begin with. Mills are a good choice.
Ahh, so changing the resistors to something better might be helpful. Do you have a recommendation? -
You can get a more detailed (less hollow) sound out of the TSi drivers simply by adding a 3/16" thick layer of open-cell foam to the inner spokes. Then add a layer of butyl mat/Dynamat to the outer frame. Some fresh caps and resistors, the tweeters will clean up no doubt.
Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Yes, I stated Mills. You may find them named Vishay-Mills.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I once knew a guy that could've had any pig from the pen that he wanted. One day, he made his choice and out of all them pigs in the pen, he picked the ugliest one.
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I once knew a guy that could've had any pig from the pen that he wanted. One day, he made his choice and out of all them pigs in the pen, he picked the ugliest one.
But he had and endless supply of bacon-wrapped pork chops.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
You can get a more detailed (less hollow) sound out of the TSi drivers simply by adding a 3/16" thick layer of open-cell foam to the inner spokes. Then add a layer of butyl mat/Dynamat to the outer frame. Some fresh caps and resistors, the tweeters will clean up no doubt.
Okay, now we're talking. I love tweaks like this that might actually make something outperform its original design.
Have you done this mod? Did it make much of a difference for you?
Are there other "mods" that people here have done?
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I did this to a set of TSi-100's and now they are my desk/computer near-field monitors. I phased plugged the drivers too. The sound is excellent and well balanced. Mids are no longer harsh/hollow. I also simply added a 6x6x 5/8" thick open-cell foam square behind the Mids because the TSi100's do not come with damping/Dacron from factory. I haven't even removed the caps or resistors (yet)
Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
I haven't even removed the caps or resistors (yet)
I'm sorry, but why would you remove the capacitors and resistors from the crossover circuit?
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To put in better/new caps and resistors. F1 is right, factory sand cast vs wire-wound resistors will lose every time.Post edited by xschop onDon't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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I don't recall the TSI's using doped paper cones...
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“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
Those are original TSi mids. The dust cap glue that Polk used had chemically delaminated the gold color cone treatment and I was able to easily peel it off.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Those are original TSi mids. The dust cap glue that Polk used had chemically delaminated the gold color cone treatment and I was able to easily peel it off.
Pics or it didn't happen. Sure looks like a doped paper cone to me.
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Those are original TSi mids. The dust cap glue that Polk used had chemically delaminated the gold color cone treatment and I was able to easily peel it off.
I stand corrected. Weird setup though with a colored cone cover.
2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
It is doped, because I re-doped them. They'll last longer than what the factory tried.
I posted about it somewhere here, F1 can tell you all about it.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Sorry, I can't keep track of the insanity.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Here ya go...
Besides these mods, the biggest and easiest SQ gains for the TSi mids are inner frame foam and butyl mat.
Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Here ya go...
Besides these mods, the biggest and easiest SQ gains for the TSi mids are inner frame foam and butyl mat.
OMG, what did you do to your speaker cones? That can't have improved the sound.
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Sounds MUCH better than the nasty loose dust cap sound that was emanating from that one.
They actually sound like the vintage doped-paper cones.
So what size caps are in your TSi-200s?Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
The two larger capacitors are as follows:
- 10uF 50V
- 2uF 50V
