thougts on my new theory please....

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Comments

  • gmorrisgmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited June 2004
    Good point about moving the listening position. I forgot about that.... I did that once before, and it made a huge difference.

    I think tonight I'm going to focus on one problem at a time. I'm going to start with figuring out how to correct the "sticky speaker" sound first. I'll then worry about bass, as the bass is not as big an issue.

    Since you mentioned before you use the Norah Jones disc for troubleshooting (and you're the only one left in this thr'd) I thought I'd use the Jones disc to isolate specific problems, then tell you about them so you can hear for yourself what I'm having trouble with. (that is, of course, if you don't mind & would like to continue helping me sort this out)
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
  • scottnbnjscottnbnj Posts: 709
    edited June 2004
    if i'm reading you right on sticky, if you have it around, pink floyd, dark side of the moon would be ideal to help you get a seamless image at several different frequency ranges.

    )
  • gmorrisgmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited June 2004
    Yes, I actually have the new SACD version of DSOTM, although I can only listen to the CD layer. (don't have SACD playback cabability yet) I'll locate some problems with Norah Jones & DSOTM tonight.

    To further explain the "sticking" issue, what I mean is, lets say there is a guitar that is playing on the left side of the soundstage. In the current placement, it sounds like the guitar is on the left, for sure, but it sounds like the guitar is coming right out of the speaker, only a little behind it.

    Maybe the problem is: that is how it is supposed to sound, and I've just never heard it correctly before. Assuming it is correct, maybe I'm just not used to complete channel seperation, and being that it sounds new & different, I just think it is wrong. I'm not sure.......

    When there is a center image, such as vocals, it comes right out of the middle, where it should be. I can stare at the speaker and focus on it, but I hear no sound from it, the sound is in the middle. Then, when a sound (such as the guitar from the example above) is off to the side, I can distinctly hear the speaker producing the sound.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
  • scottnbnjscottnbnj Posts: 709
    edited June 2004
    yeah, that's what i thought you were saying.

    cd is fine, if you get all of those traveling images on dark side of the moon going from the side wall outside of the left speak across the stage to to side wall outside of the right and back smoothly without any hangs, skips or jumps(ideally you'll identify uniform movement across the stage with *every* pulse while looking straight forward at center stage), you'll be done adjusting for stickiness.

    i mean, you can be confident that a wide variety of frequencies are properly imaging. if there are any sticking points after that on other music, i doubt it's as much a speaker movement issue, as a room treatment issue.

    )
  • gmorrisgmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited June 2004
    DSOTM proved to be VERY helpful....

    At the start of my testing, it was horrible. I had left speaker, center, right speaker. Occasionally, I'd get some imaging between speaker & center, but rarely. It was not good. (Norah Jones was more of the same, but DSOTM has alot of moving sounds, awesome)

    Basically, I figured even with my treated side walls, the speakers were just too close to the side walls. I moved the speakers about 2 inches closer to the center, and back about 3 to 4 inches. I then ended up with my chair moved forward about 2 inches from where it was. I had the speakers squared up (no toe in). I got a wonderfully complete soundstage. No more is it right, center, left, but one continuous stage. (this MUST be how it should sound) I then finished by toeing in the speakers until I had the sharp center image. All this only took a short while, but the results were immense.

    I was finally able to sit & listen to some music, and stop fretting over what I was hearing. I'm sure I'll tweak some here and there (I've got to relocate my accoustic panels).

    The bass still can get a little, shall I say, lingering, which must be from standing waves. I really see no way to combat that, as the SAF (spousal acceptance factor) for most low frequency attenuation options is rather low. Maybe we can come up with some other ways to settle the bass down.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
  • scottnbnjscottnbnj Posts: 709
    edited June 2004
    Originally posted by gmorris
    The bass still can get a little, shall I say, lingering, which must be from standing waves. I really see no way to combat that, as the SAF (spousal acceptance factor) for most low frequency attenuation options is rather low. Maybe we can come up with some other ways to settle the bass down.

    happy this is going well.

    paul mentioned the walking through the room to find the standing waves in the thread i mentioned(norah should shine for this). if it's as you say, you should have no problem identifying them that way.

    if this is your last problem, it can be dealt with in just a mathmatical way, moving the speaks a little forward or back in addition to the listening position to move the heavy part of the wave off of your ears. maybe treating the back wall might be the most direct and wafable route.

    if memory serves, the ethan winer link above could help.

    good luck.

    )
  • gmorrisgmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited June 2004
    Ethan Weiner, he he he;)!

    It really isn't even that bad. I'm just happy to have the soundstage & imaging straitened out.

    My whole reason for moving the speakers last week was because I had NO bass, at all, none.... the imaging & soundstage were whole, but was very jumbled. If you look at my showcase again (the pictures are still of the old setup) you will see the speakers were very close together, constricting the stage. Something about that placement also cancelled all the bass.

    Now, with the new placement sorted out (almost) I have great bass! A little boomy and it hangs around a bit longer than it should, but bass drums now sound like drum whacks instead of farts.

    The only thing that I didn't like last night was I now sit about 1 foot closer to the speakers. That makes a big difference. I think I just need to adjust to sitting closer. It should be fine.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
  • scottnbnjscottnbnj Posts: 709
    edited June 2004
    Originally posted by gmorris
    The only thing that I didn't like last night was I now sit about 1 foot closer to the speakers. That makes a big difference. I think I just need to adjust to sitting closer. It should be fine.

    you mean,uh,.. a foot closer to norah sitting in your lap?

    what's not to like?

    )
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