Original Owner Of Monitor 5JR Plus
Comments
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melchionda wrote: »The original gaskets for the base drivers were totally spent and so I couldn’t reuse them. Plus the sealant acts as a damper along with the dynamat.
The original gaskets are supposed to be paper thin. Using something that creates a damper/cushion between the basket rim and the bezel is the exact opposite of what you want.
Interesting. What is the point of the gasket? I thought it was to seal the enclosure. The original gaskets didnt hold up very well and are difficult to install even for the Polk factory workers. I know this because I’m the original owner of these speakers and when I removed the drivers (for the first time) two of the gaskets were not seated properly and one was broken.
It doesn't take much to seal the driver/cabinet, hence the paper thin original gaskets. The idea is to make the basket rim one with the bezel. When there is a cushion between the two it causes a smearing of the mids.
I've opened countless vintage Polk speakers over the years and have never seen an improperly seated or broken gasket.
I've seen many a complaint and a few drivers that did not seal well with that thin factory gasket because the basket flanges were out-of-round.
I went to my friend's shop and he gave me this material to try next. He has a huge roll and believes it's adhesive backed neoprene closed cell sponge rubber 0.065" thick. Feels stronger than Armacell too.
Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
HDPU that took too long to dry...
Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Good job making the gasket.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Ohhhhh... gasket pornn!The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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Polyurethane going on and the crossovers are in place.
And also, I know that most will think I am using too much No-Res on the interior. But my plan is to optimize for detail over bass and SPL. The room where I plan to use these has 4 subwoofers so I don’t need a lot of bass out of these.
Yamaha RX-A2080 HT Receiver in 5.4.4 configurationYamaha A-S2200 Integrated Amp Powering an extra set of Front SpeakersAudioLab 6000N Network Streamer Connected to Spotify and Amazon HD Music4 10" Subwoofers Powered By Dayton Audio 1200 DSP Amps4 In ceiling Atmos SpeakersSpeakers:Warfedale Diamond 9.1 (Front and Rear L+R)Polk Monitor 5 Jr+ (Front L+R)Martin Logan Motion SLM XL (Center Channel)Subwoofers 2x Dayton Audio RS270-8 10" Reference WooferSubwoofers 2x Dayton Audio RSS265HO-44 10" Reference Series HO DVC Subwoofer -
You don't understand what that damping material does. All that No-Rez you put in there will kill the mid range....going to sound like mud.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
You don't understand what that damping material does. All that No-Rez you put in there will kill the mid range....going to sound like mud.
F1. You are a great contributor to this forum and I have enjoyed reading a great many of your posts across this forum. I take most of what you say as solid advice / information, however in this case I have to completely disagree with you. Speaker cabinet resonance is not desirable because it will never be accurate to the musical signal. The only part(s) of the speaker that have the opportunity to resonate accurately are the speaker driver surfaces. Preventing everything else from resonating (ie the cabinet, stands etc) will make things more clear (less muddy). I do expect that stopping the cabinet from resonating will make the speaker sound less "full" and will also probably have lower volume however, accuracy will be greatly improved. I do not have any interest in a "full bodied" sound midrange, base or otherwise that isn't precise, detailed, accurate.
Having read through this forum as well as learning about speaker design over the years I now know why I found these speakers disappointing. The tweeter was rubbish and an overly resonant cabinet muddied the sound. I heard this when I auditioned them in 1988, but I was in High School and didn't know any better.
As I stated at the beginning of this thread these speakers have been with me for a long time and I wanted to see if I could make them the best they could be, aesthetically and sonically. If I've failed at that then it's a learning experience. However, in my opinion, based on my experience with these speakers the design needed improvement.Yamaha RX-A2080 HT Receiver in 5.4.4 configurationYamaha A-S2200 Integrated Amp Powering an extra set of Front SpeakersAudioLab 6000N Network Streamer Connected to Spotify and Amazon HD Music4 10" Subwoofers Powered By Dayton Audio 1200 DSP Amps4 In ceiling Atmos SpeakersSpeakers:Warfedale Diamond 9.1 (Front and Rear L+R)Polk Monitor 5 Jr+ (Front L+R)Martin Logan Motion SLM XL (Center Channel)Subwoofers 2x Dayton Audio RS270-8 10" Reference WooferSubwoofers 2x Dayton Audio RSS265HO-44 10" Reference Series HO DVC Subwoofer -
That much damping material will kill the sound, like throwing a blanket over them.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
What F1nut might be referring to is the rear wave produced by the driver being overly absorbed by that amount of damping material. When people used to ask me how much Dacron to place in their cabinets, I would suggest that with the driver removed from the cabinet they place their face up close to the cabinet opening. Then recite, "Mary had a little lamb" a few times and with no damping material installed note how your voice sounds as it is reflected by the inside of the cabinet. Then place a couple of handfuls of Dacron until you can just hear a slight amount of your voice being reflected. If too much damping material is added your voice will sound dead and flat as you speak. The rear wave that the driver produces will reflect off of the inside surfaces of the cabinet and pass through the cone material and be heard slightly delayed from the front sound wave. I believe the ear detects this slightly delayed repeat of the sound as preferable. The trick is to control this amount of reflection so it doesn't sound intrusive.
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The backwave is also reflected off of the internal structures of the speaker such as the frame and the magnet motor so you will still be experiencing that, when it gets transmitted back through the cone.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
Then your monitors become as this forum....an echo chamber.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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More than a couple of members here tried an over abundance of the BH5, more's better right? They quickly removed it. It will absolutely suck the life out of a speaker. Only you can decide, I on the other hand trust the members here who did put a bunch in and warned us it is detrimental to good sound.
If you find it a detriment please let us know, it absolutely helps other in the future.
Carry on. -
Any sound coming back through a cone is distortion and should be minimized if not totally eliminated.
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Any sound coming back through a cone is distortion and should be minimized if not totally eliminated.
In that case you'd better completely seal up the rear of the basket. Let us know how that works out...LMAOPolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Take the fill out of a cabinet and let us know how that works out. ROFLMFAO!!!
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That would be a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater since it would totally mess up Vas and the acoustical compliance of the speaker, which also effect the impedance curve. Even if it didn't do that it would increase the backwave reflected back through the cone. What speaker manufacturers have been doing is using cast drivers that represent minimal reflective surfaces.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
Take the fill out of a cabinet and let us know how that works out. ROFLMFAO!!!
You clearly are clueless.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Gardenstater wrote: »
That would be a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater since it would totally mess up Vas and the acoustical compliance of the speaker, which also effect the impedance curve. Even if it didn't do that it would increase the backwave reflected back through the cone. What speaker manufacturers have been doing is using cast drivers that represent minimal reflective surfaces.
Take a valium, try meditating, have a few shots, smoke a blunt...anything to chill out because dude you are wound up way too tight.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Any sound coming back through a cone is distortion and should be minimized if not totally eliminated.
ExactlyYamaha RX-A2080 HT Receiver in 5.4.4 configurationYamaha A-S2200 Integrated Amp Powering an extra set of Front SpeakersAudioLab 6000N Network Streamer Connected to Spotify and Amazon HD Music4 10" Subwoofers Powered By Dayton Audio 1200 DSP Amps4 In ceiling Atmos SpeakersSpeakers:Warfedale Diamond 9.1 (Front and Rear L+R)Polk Monitor 5 Jr+ (Front L+R)Martin Logan Motion SLM XL (Center Channel)Subwoofers 2x Dayton Audio RS270-8 10" Reference WooferSubwoofers 2x Dayton Audio RSS265HO-44 10" Reference Series HO DVC Subwoofer -
No… because you need the movement of the woofer to activate the passive radiator.Yamaha RX-A2080 HT Receiver in 5.4.4 configurationYamaha A-S2200 Integrated Amp Powering an extra set of Front SpeakersAudioLab 6000N Network Streamer Connected to Spotify and Amazon HD Music4 10" Subwoofers Powered By Dayton Audio 1200 DSP Amps4 In ceiling Atmos SpeakersSpeakers:Warfedale Diamond 9.1 (Front and Rear L+R)Polk Monitor 5 Jr+ (Front L+R)Martin Logan Motion SLM XL (Center Channel)Subwoofers 2x Dayton Audio RS270-8 10" Reference WooferSubwoofers 2x Dayton Audio RSS265HO-44 10" Reference Series HO DVC Subwoofer -
melchionda wrote: »
No… because you need the movement of the woofer to activate the passive radiator.
Oh look, a real genius.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
This gets at something I struggle with in the speaker world (as opposed to the voiceover booth world).
Line my walls, sir, with all the things! Get those pesky reflections outta there. I don't want resonance nor reflections from walls, tabletops, monitors, doors... ANYTHING.
As long as the air I excite from the hole in my face excites the membrane in my mic without environmental influence, I'm good.
In my mind, and others can help educate me on this, if the excitation of the air in the chamber is equal to the same level of energy damped or undamped, then the sound produced from the passive should be equal in energy transferred. Right? So, if you designed (or modified) a speaker so that reflections were virtually nil, and resonance was eliminated, but it still excited the same amount of air with the same amount of sonic energy, the output would be the same, except more accurate.
Wouldn't surface damping work differently than material filling the airspace between surfaces? I can see that killing the excitation of the air in a way that lining the walls wouldn't. Or is it just late and I'm confusing everyone...
In a similar vein to the use of No-Rez-like materials:
When I put Noico (Dynamat-like clone) on the passive chambers of my Monitor 12, it helped clean up the boomy bass they're famous for. The goal wasn't to deaden the soundwaves in the air of the chamber, it was to deaden the resonance from the interior surfaces.
I did a similar thing to my left 1C. I covered the passive chamber w/ the same pipe wrap I used on the baskets of the mids/passives. It's like Noico/Dynamat Jr. I prefer the bass coming out of the left speaker. It's not dead, by a long shot. Different than a foam product, though. I'm trying to reduce vibration of the enclosure.
I'm on the fence about lining the upper chambers with more than the squares of BH5 and the original white rolls. I'd love to try some Sonic Barrier (or the like) in place of the batting and BH5 using Falcon's method above.
Apologies for the ramble there, but your work has been fun to watch
I look forward to your reports!The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage -
The 8” midrange in this speaker has a sealed back to prevent the back waves from the woofer from adding distortion.
I have a pair of these Jensens and the midrange clarity is stunning for a 1962 built speaker.
So, I’m not clueless but have facts.
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In looking at my saved ebay search results this morn, I (with much amusement in between valiums) came across an old Peerless Alnico magnet midrange driver with a completely enclosed stamped steel frame. Perhaps they have sound absorptive materials inside? It also violates the rule (lol) that you don't need more than 4 holes on a small 5" stamped steel basket.
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
I believe this is an example of how science and art really can combine to produce a sound system that can approximate real music. If one facet dominates the other the result can be either overly sterile or so colored that reality is obscured. It's only a handful of audio components that have successfully combined these two divergent goals into truly musical instruments.
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Speaking of facets, the midrange above was in Design Acoustics D-12 dodecahedron speakers with 9 tweeters, 1 upward facing midrange, and 1 downward facing woofer
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
It would be interesting to take a mw-xxxx driver and re-engineer the basket using streamlined cast aluminum with a strong small diameter magnet.
That would minimize reflections to get cleaner sound and still be able to use a passive radiator.
Hey, mods on the inside of the current metal stamped basket work! This would be a step beyond that. -
F1 would never catch up on current mods.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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F1 would never catch up on current mod disasters.
Fixed it for you and that is correct.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
