Arcam AVR20 vs. Denon AVC-a110 Anniversary...

nooshinjohn

As the title suggests, I am comparing these two for two channel performance. I love my Arcam and the way it performs for two channel audio, but reliability issues have plagued my experience with the brand. Sonically, it has worked very well with my L800/Carver amp setup and has not disappointed in the least. But that reliability thing... I have had 4 of them, with the current one only being a week old, but it throws gibberish on the screen when it starts up from being turned off. If I turn it off then back on, everything is good. I think it has much to do with the pass-through to my TV and my not be the Arcam at all, but to say I am gun-shy is a pretty fair statement.

I have an opportunity to grab a Denon AVC-a110 for a very fair price and not much more than I have in the Arcam. Best Buy is going to pretty much make it an even swap. I have little experience with the Denon sound, and the reviews I have seen for this piece seem to hold it in pretty high regard. I am hoping some of you here might have some advice for me regarding the sound of the Denon in comparison to the Arcam. I will need to pull the trigger on it later tonight or tomorrow.

Clipdat

Yes, go for it.

treitz3

Dude, I know what you have had in the past and while I can't comment on the Arcam because I have never heard one before....I did buy the TOTL Denon AVR years ago and I returned it that day. The "Natural Sound" is highly in need of sounding anywhere near "Natural". It was horrible to these ears and that's what really got me started on my current audio journey, starting with Carver gear (where I believe I met you....at the Carver forum. The Denon is about as colored and unnatural as they come in my book.

I believe that the price point was hanging around 1.7K at the time, and that was about a decade ago.

You will not be pleased with the Denon, unless your ears are shot. My 2 cents. My apologies to those that have Denon gear, I am just being honest with John here. My intent is NOT to shoot your gear down.

Tom

Clipdat

But he's just listening to The Beatles so it should be fine.

Clipdat

Also it's worth mentioning that the original MSRP on the Denon AVC-a110 in question was $5,500. I believe therefore it's safe to say that it's in a higher category of performance than the Denon AVR that you tried previously Tom.

That being said, yeah he just may not care for the Denon house sound/sound tuning. Hard to say really.

nooshinjohn

treitz3 wrote: »

Dude, I know what you have had in the past and while I can't comment on the Arcam because I have never heard one before....I did buy the TOTL Denon AVR years ago and I returned it that day. The "Natural Sound" is highly in need of sounding anywhere near "Natural". It was horrible to these ears and that's what really got me started on my current audio journey, starting with Carver gear (where I believe I met you....at the Carver forum. The Denon is about as colored and unnatural as they come in my book.

I believe that the price point was hanging around 1.7K at the time, and that was about a decade ago.

You will not be pleased with the Denon, unless your ears are shot. My 2 cents. My apologies to those that have Denon gear, I am just being honest with John here. My intent is NOT to shoot your gear down.

Tom

Thanks Tom. It has been a journey for sure. To be honest, my system was getting far too complicated, and with little kids running around, it was to the point that getting time to enjoy any of it was impossible to find. Getting rid of the Pass Labs gear was a hard call, but the Arcam has done an admirable job stepping in from a sound perspective. The L800's sound better in my room than the 1.2TL's did and are better suited to a dual use rig.

treitz3

Clipdat wrote: »

Also it's worth mentioning that the original MSRP on the Denon AVC-a110 in question was $5,500. I believe therefore it's safe to say that it's in a higher category of performance than the Denon AVR that you tried previously Tom.

That being said, yeah he just may not care for the Denon house sound/sound tuning. Hard to say really.

Fair enough. Even with inflation being what it is, the one I auditioned wouldn't be worth more than 23 or $2400 in today's world. You may be right but what I do know is that the sound was horrid and was bested by what I had before that, which was a low powered Yamaha integrated amp that I bought used for about $100.00.

I got to thinking about the timeline a little bit more and I was off. Way off. That was close to 2 decades ago, not a decade ago. Time flies man....

Tom

Emlyn

I understand the A110 is now discontinued but it was only intended to be a limited production run of an upgraded 8500H model. Seems like reviews almost always say the Denon house sound is intact, and maybe even enhanced, with this and the other 110th anniversary products.

FWIW with the pandemic's effects on production receding there are more choices for receivers now than there were in the last couple years. Even Anthem's products are back in stock and Marantz is coming out with a whole new lineup.

jbreezy5

@nooshinjohn - Doesn’t BB have the Denon set-up in their listening room so you can get a feel for the sound?

I wouldn’t switch without hearing it first.

nooshinjohn

No they don’t have it set up, but they are working on that so I can demo tomorrow. I can at least get a taste of what it does, but I won’t get the full picture until my amps and speakers are connected.

nooshinjohn

So today I went to Best Buy and listened to the Denon with a pair of bowers and Wilkins speakers. It was the driest most uninvolving listening session I think I’ve had with high-end equipment in my life.

There seemed to be no soul in the music whatsoever. My previous experience with Denon is that it is a relatively sterile sounding piece of equipment. Pairing that with the B&W made that even worse.

I used Tanya Tucker’s “While I’m Livin’” for the demo because her voice is so distinct and raspy… very hard to get right. The musical accompaniment is also very well done and includes a nice mix of choir and orchestra.

There was no real connection I could make to the sound I am getting from the Arcam/Polk pairing. I don’t know how much of this is because of the B&W’s, or if it was the Denon, but it was BAD.

To be fair, the Denon with the L800 and my tube amps will sound vastly different, I still don’t think the AVC-a110 is going to come close to what I am getting with Arcam. There is a reason Sound United did not use this when they rolled out the Legends to start with.

I came home and listened to a wide variety of music, including what I played at Best Buy… I am so happy with what I’ve got right now. I am done… time to get everything fully dialed in and get the Dirac run.

Everything is good! Synergy is bliss.

treitz3

I tow U sow and U know weeeeson!

Tom

jbreezy5

@nooshinjohn - Does the Arcam remain gibberish-free after a clean power up?

If so, is leaving it powered up an option to avoid the screen issue?

Glad you like the sound, but bummed you’ve had so much trouble with it.

treitz3

John, I would venture to say that it wasn't so much the Denon than it was the B&W's.

I would say that the mere fact that B&W's are in a box store and not a boutique shop should tell you something but I won't. (Even though I just did)

I listened to a set of B&W's a few years back that had a healthy front end. Read, about 60K-80K retail"ish". I had them play "Bubbles" by Yosi Horikawa. Within the first two seconds, I stated that there was something amiss. So, I had them play.....oh, what was it? Bonnie Raitte's, "I can't make you love me". Once again. I was shocked at the horrid sound.

I told the salesman, "Where was the music"?

He just looked at me with a dear in the headlights kinda look. This was their highest showroom in Charlotte (probably still is). This was when I was looking for a pre (Before I bought the Canary).

It was so horrid, that (even though I was interested in the pre they had?) I didn't even bother with any follow up or further questions. How in the **** can one audition crap like that with such bad end results?

Whatever.

Now, on the flip side, I heard the (I believe it was the R-200's) Polk's at this past year's PF? Man, them suckers cranked out the music! Money means NOTHING in this hobby! Only the end result as to what hits one's ears.

Tom

treitz3

treitz3 wrote: »

He just looked at me with a dear in the headlights kinda look.

Oh, deer.

Tom

nooshinjohn

You should hear "Bubbles" on this setup...