Got some new toys today

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  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,240
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    The interconnects are not over a power cord, already verified that. I’ll pull the phono power supply and put it on the floor and see what happens.

    FWIW I had no hum with the rega. So trying to figure out why it’s present with this. Strange that it goes away when I touch the grounding lug
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,046
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    Tom also suggested running a second wire from the phono pre to the wall or line-level pre. It could also go to the amp, or power conditioner. That usually fixes these situations for me.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,373
    edited September 2022
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    Your arm, like mine, have exposed tonearm wiring to junction block. Any proximity to strong magnetic fields?

    Fast 120Hz buzz is typically caused by ground loops. The lower and slower hums are typically shielding, cable problems, or close proximity to strong magnetic fields.

    An example, if I move my turntable a few feet, I am right by the electric meter (smart meter - RF transmitter) on outside wall. My exposed Litz wiring on tonearm picked up a hum that drove me crazy until I moved rack.
    Post edited by SCompRacer on
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,240
    edited September 2022
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    Here’s a video of the hum. If I touch the exposed tonearm wiring, it gets worse, if I touch any metal component of the turntable it goes away completely. I tried the phono to the wall outlet screw and that also didn’t change the symptom. I’ll try a long one to the amp next I suppose. I moved the phono power supply out of the rack completely and no change

    https://youtube.com/shorts/9z-UEurO030?feature=share

    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,548
    edited September 2022
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    Are all of your TT's components' PC's running off of one outlet or multiple ones?

    If the hum disappears when you touch the TT ground, just experiment. Ground hums can be a nasty thing to chase sometimes and ya' gotta just keep chasing it until you find it. It could be a wire from your TT ground to your amp ground, your CDP ground or other component within the system. You may actually try to use a cheater plug, if you have one, and try that on the TT's PS or the phono pre's PS. Then try it on your pre or amp. Once the noise is gone, you have eliminated the issue.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,240
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    All on the same outlet. Plugged into a power conditioner. This is an old house so wouldn’t be surprised if there are underlying issues although supposedly the wiring was all gone through a few years back. I have a lot plugged in up in the attic and it’s all one circuit. Kegerator, window a/c etc. I unplugged everything besides the stereo to see if one of those was causing it to no avail.

    Put a cheater on order, will try that with various components when I get it
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,548
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    You have any dimmers on that circuit?

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,683
    edited September 2022
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    I recently had a hum with my turntable after moving some items around. I found that my phono pre was connected to a different circuit than my amp. Once they were both on the same circuit everything was good. ^what Tom described above.

    It can drive you crazy. Take it slow and remember all combinations as you move forward.
    2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,373
    edited September 2022
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    Do you have a test plug? I'd start at wall, eliminate it as possible cause.

    i1r56yu42bte.png


    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,240
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    There is most certainly a dimmer. I don’t ever use it for its dimming abilities but I have heard they can be problematic.

    Just did a few more things.

    Grounded both the phono and turntable to the following - preamp, amp, vpi ads, wall plate screw, amp. No change anywhere. Disconnected everything else to pull all other components out of the loop.

    This is violently frustrating lol. When I’m playing music I can’t hear the hum, but it is still frustrating nonetheless
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,240
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    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Do you have a test plug? I'd start at wall, eliminate it as possible cause.

    i1r56yu42bte.png


    I don’t but I’ll pick one up

    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,046
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    Does it go away (or change) when you touch the tonearm? I believe that VPI arm is a uni-pivot. Correct? And probably has a jeweled bearing at the uni-pivot touch point. If so, the arm tube is probably not grounded to the chassis, since it operates totally independently.

    I had this problem with my Basis Audio 1400 w/ their Vector uni-pivot arm. Here's what I had to do to eliminate the hum: https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/194885/things-we-do-to-eliminate-hum If you can narrow down that this might be the issue for you (grounding the arm tube), then you can start working on a solution. I basically had to ground one of the cartridge (-) pins to the arm via a tiny, short wire. There's probably a more elegant solution to be found, but I was just glad to get it working quietly at that point.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,548
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    That dimmer may be your culprit. The light doesn't even need to be on, FWIW. We have narrowed it down to it being and electrical issue and not a mechanical one. If you want to look at the bright side? That's good news. That's the easiest to correct.

    Another thing I would look at was touched on earlier on in a post by Mike Reeter.
    If the hum persists, make sure the the TT Interconnects are not lying over a power cord. Also try and separate the the power supply from the Phono Preamp.

    You may have something as simple as a signal cable getting interference from a power cable. Try crossing paths at a 90° angle, if they are close and there is no way to separate them. If you happen to have some spare shielded cables laying around, you may want to entertain using them, if all else fails.
    stangman67 wrote: »
    Disconnected everything else to pull all other components out of the loop.

    Smart man. You'll find it. Just takes a bit of patience sometimes. I got faith in ya'.

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,373
    edited September 2022
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    I remember that elegant grounding solution! :)

    The old ways....ground strap.

    wz6vdq0izxj2.png
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,046
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    Watching/listening to the little YouTube video, it actually sounds more like interference than a ground hum, but that could just be due to the recording.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,415
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    Yep, not a ground loop hum but electrical noise making its way into the delicate low level signal from the cartridge through the table and then amplified by the phono preamp. It tends to be more apparent with a low output cartridge in the mix because the phono gain has to be set high.

    The noise can be reduced but often it’ll linger and not completely disappear. One of the frustrations of vinyl and doesn’t mean there are any defects in the components themselves.
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,373
    edited September 2022
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    It doesn't sound like 120Hz hum to me either.

    Is your turntable on outside wall by a smart electric meter? Smart meters have RF transmitters. When they "upgraded" our electric meter, I had some TT static issues. My rack used to be a couple feet over, directly opposite of meter. My arm has exposed wires to RCA block, like yours.

    You get desperate enough to try, fold a piece of tinfoil over your exposed tonearm wires.

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,240
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    All good points, I appreciate it. Not by a smart meter, this is is the attic. I thought it sounded electrical to me as well, but doesn’t seem to make sense that me touching the table makes the noise go away. I’d figure it would remain if the noise was electrical interference.

    And yes, the noise does lessen if I touch the top of the unipivot, it disappears if I touch the vta base or the grounding lug. Very weird. Logically none of this really makes sense to me so I am kind of at a loss. I can replace the dimmer just to pull that out of the loop. The noise does lessen significantly when I drop the loading on the phono pre, does that give anyone any hints?
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,683
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    Try a different phono cable.
    2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,240
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    I’ll add that to the list of things to try
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,696
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    Can you try a different phono pre if you have one?
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,240
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    I don’t have another unfortunately. Not thinking that’s the issue, I sent it to Dan awhile back for an issue that was not the Phonos fault and he gave it a full bill of health. Not saying that can’t be the issue, I just don’t understand why it would be if the noise goes away when I touch the TT
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,548
    edited September 2022
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    Some more troubleshooting ideas -

    How close is your TT PC to your TT IC's? - Try separating them if they are close while powered on and see if this helps.

    If you have a component that you have not unplugged and is still in the loop, are any of those components missing a ground (in other words, can you switch the position of the plug(s) at the outlet 180°?

    Is the ground at the pivot point of the arm making contact?

    You had mentioned that it is an older house. You may want to check ALL of the outlets/switches on that circuit to make sure the ground is solid and hasn't come loose. You can simply hard wire the dimmer temporarily to eliminate that from the equation.

    If nothing else that's been discussed in this thread so far works (try those first unless this sparks something you may already suspect)......are you running any tubes with the gear that's still not removed from the equation?

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,548
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    Ah, forgot one other thing.....is there a fluorescent light anywhere on that circuit?

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,046
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    stangman67 wrote: »
    this is the attic

    And yes, the noise does lessen if I touch the top of the unipivot, it disappears if I touch the vta base or the grounding lug.
    Being in the attic, you could be picking up RFI from outside. The 'lessening' (vs going away altogether) from touching the top of the unipivot could be due to the layer of paint, not giving you solid contact to the metal. Whereas with the VTA base and grounding lug, you're getting good solid contact with your skin.

    Speaking of good contact, make sure whatever extra grounding solution you're trying is making contact with bare metal...maybe even loosen the screw and put the stripped cable underneath, as opposed to simply touching the top of the screw, etc.

    What happens if you touch the RCA barrel (-) where it leaves the terminal block?

    You could also try some ferrite chokes around the phono cable, and also increase the capacitance setting if that's an option.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,240
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    I’ll try to answer all questions. The phono and pre are tuned so tubes are in the equation.

    None of the stuff remaining plugged in is non grounded so no flipping plugs. I’ll get a tester and go through all the plugs just in case.

    The extra ground wire I was trying had a spade on the end which I hard connected at the grounding lugs, I built one for the phono and tt and touched the other ends to various bare metal (mostly removed chassis threaded holes).

    I have manipulated the phono cable all over the place, even lifting it in the air to get it physically as far away from all power sources as possible. The noise does fluctuate as I am doing this, but never disappears.

    No fluorescent lights, only Phillips hue up there

    If I touch the rca barrels from the turn table, the noise goes away

    As far as pivot grounds, I believe the arm is grounding fine, as I can touch the VTA base and the noise goes away. So if there is a grounding issue I would
    Imagine it’s between the vta base and the grounding lugs. It’s all rigidly connected so assuming there are no issues there
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,240
    edited September 2022
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    Guys, I’m an idiot. For some reason I don’t think I ever switched the dimmer switch light switch to the off position.

    I use hue lights with a wireless control so I never really turn that switch off. I went through everything I did again. Unplugged everything, turned the lights off. Turned the stereo on and cranked the volume, and NO BUZZ! I started plugging everything back in and buzz didn’t come back. I flipped the damn dimmer switch on and low and behold the buzz came back.

    Hope you all can look past my transgressions on this one lol. Looks like I’ll be replacing the dimmer with a normal switch and I should be all good to go. Thanks for all the help and suggestions, you guys are awesome!
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,548
    edited September 2022
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    [EDIT -] Looks like you found the culprit. Fantastic! Now go get an adult drink and enjoy some vinyl bro'!!!

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,240
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    As soon as I found it, I cracked open the keg for the night (need a drink for either the satisfaction or frustration, not sure which one!) bp5zfk10sn02.jpeg
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,683
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    Now that you have found the problem go enjoy some good records.

    Another reason why dedicated circuits are needed.

    With that room being upstairs next to the attic do you have the ability to run a dedicated circuit?
    2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables