Vintage Polk vs contemporary bookshelves

Nabman

Hi all,

I currently have 2 setups: one in the basement for 'hifi' listening (vinyl, CD, RTA-11T) and another in the living room for 'less hifi' listening (Spotify through Node2i, Monitor 5 Series II).

I need to downsize the living room setup to repurpose the space, and I'm considering using the streamer either with a small power amp and bookshelves such as Fluance Signature or Reference, Elac Debut B5.2, or Polk ES15, or go with powered bookshelves such as Fluance Ai41 or Kanto YU. Possibly also add a small powered subwoofer for better bass.

I narrowed down to above options based on reviews and budget. I don't have experience with contemporary budget bookshelves. Before I start ordering, evaluating and returning speakers, I would like opinions on what I should expect going from Polk Audio Monitor 5 Series II to one of the above-mentioned bookshelves. The new system would be for 'less hifi' listening but I would still like to get some detail, soundstage and imaging from the new system which I`d use mostly at low to mid volume levels with music genres range from prog rock to jazz.

Cheers,
Bill

Emlyn

Since you already have a good network streamer in the Node2i and you're downsizing I'd recommend a pair of powered bookshelf speakers and a matching subwoofer. I'd strongly recommend a subwoofer to get the performance back above what the Monitor 5s were capable of.

What tweeter were you using in the Monitor speakers? If it's the original SL2000 pretty much anything will sound more linear than those. More modern speakers will likely sound a bit thinner overall because of their size but that can be helped with a subwoofer. I'd go for the Kanto but also check out Audioengine or Edifier products. One thing's for sure there's no lack of choices for that type of speaker these days.

heiney9

R200's (look up the reviews here) would be perfect for your slight downsizing. I use these in a secondary office system. The main speakers for this rig has always been Monitor 5's with RD0 tweeters and new caps in the x-over.

I still like the vintage sound, but the R200's are more versatile and a bit more transparent than the 5B's. A little less colored in the mid's. Bass is exceptional. The tweeter is so sweet and there's detail w/o ever being harsh. A modern "Polk" sound tied to the past.

These are the stands I am using

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1PGLS300&variation=28

This is the amp I'm using, streaming Qobuz and my own cd --> FLAC rips.

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/keces-e40-integrated-amplifier/

https://power-holdings-inc.com/Keces-E40-Integrated-Amplifier-p137036102

The R200's are affordable, sound exceptional, look nice, don't take a lot of space.

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/196201/r200-speaker-stands

H9

heiney9

Emlyn wrote: »

Since you already have a good network streamer in the Node2i and you're downsizing I'd recommend a pair of powered bookshelf speakers and a matching subwoofer. I'd strongly recommend a subwoofer to get the performance back above what the Monitor 5s were capable of.

My recommendation of the R200's, you don't need a sub, the bass is better on the R200's than my re-worked Monitor 5's. It hits harder and really has some good extension and is deep enough. I don't miss my 5B's at all. The tweeter on the R200's is even better than the RD0194's.

H9

Nabman

Thanks, Emlyn. Monitor 5 stock tweeter is SL2500. Mine were upgraded to RD0198.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards powered bookshelves for less clutter but I'm afraid they'd sound too weak or too small...they're marketed as computer speakers or surrounds...that worries me lol.

What I like about the Fluance powered Ai41 is the high-pass it applies when a sub is connected leaving less work for the bookshelves. I don't think this is the case with Kanto.

heiney9

Self powered speakers (on their own) are good for more intimate, close range listening, but they will never be powerful enough to fill a room with any kind of decent sound. If you are just looking for some background music then that might work, but since you're talking about a sub, I'd guess you'd be expecting more from the system.

What are using for power now?

H9

Emlyn

The Reserve R200 are on sale at the moment for $599 a pair. Not much more than the R100 model's sale price. I agree neither would require a subwoofer and could be driven by a good integrated amp. Much of the choice would depend on where the speakers would be set up.

heiney9

Maybe tell us a bit more about room size, speaker position, listening position, associated gear etc. And how you would be using the system.

Emlyn's made a suggestion which is one way to go. You the (OP) seem to have some idea's as well. My suggestion is based on my experience's with both the 5B's and the Reserve R200's, but I am using both in a smaller office setting doing more "close range" listening (less than 6'). Not out in an open living room 8-10' away, etc.

So a bit more about your use and end expectation does help w/recommendations.

One last comment, I don't think you'll find a better bookshelf speaker than the R200's w/out spending a whole lot more. Especially if you're already a fan of the "Polk" sound.

H9

Nabman

Thank you all for your helpful answers.

Unfortunately, the Polk Rs (being larger and rear-ported) would require more space into the room than I can give (not planning to go to war with the wife).

Albeit the living room being large, I'll be listening from no more than 6 feet away, mostly at moderate volume. The speakers would sit on a display unit/console around 6 inches away from the rear wall and one of them around 12-14 inches from a side wall, and 4-5 feet apart.

I care more about detail and spaciousness than loud volume; I would not like a tiny sound. Perhaps I'm imagining contemporary small bookshelves as sounding like cheap computer speakers? I guess that's what I'm seeking assurance on.

As for my current amp, it's a 65W/ch rms and I'm utilizing no more than 50% of it.

heiney9

"Spaciousness" is going to be hard to achieve with a very small foot print speaker. But I understand your space limitations for the R200's to perform with the best bass on their own.

Maybe go with the R100's and a nice sub. You won't fully utilized the R100's (bass) as they will be crossed for mid/high duty, but you'll get that wondrous midrange and stellar highs of the ring radiator Pinnacle tweeter.

The Reserve series is really much more musical than the ES series, IMO. Especially if low/mid level listening detail, transparency, musicality and large sound stage is what you're looking for.

H9

heiney9

The R100's are an inch less in width and almost 3" less in depth, so not quite as intrusive as the R200's.

mhardy6647

FWIW, I find that a pair of R200 fills my little hifi nook impressively well, avec or sans subwoofer.


(R200s not shown becasue I didn't yet have them when the photo was taken in the pre-COVID days )

I suspect the R100 would do nearly as well, tho' I haven't heard 'em.

Nabman

@mhardy6647 wow impressive room and vintage collection. The R200/100 were my earlier choices but had to drop them from my list due to the smaller space allocated to the music setup 😞

mhardy6647

Well, the NYTimes apparently liked the adorable little ES15

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/197110/how-did-i-miss-this-nyt-raves-bout-polk

I've never heard them, though (and FWIW).

PS The panoramic photo above makes the room look both better... and worse... than it really does. I should've just said it is 25 x 25 feet (which it is), but I have that photo (courtesy of a hifi colleague) and I am not too good about not trotting it out. )

dromunds

The modern Polk bookies will not sound like cheap computer speakers, that’s for sure. I’ve had the L200’s and the R200’s - I agree with Heiney that the R200’s are fantastic bang for the buck. No sub required, they have unbelievable bass. I have a small living room and often listen not much further than you at lower to moderate volume and it sounds great. I use a good quality integrated. I have Peerless Monitor 4’s with my television currently through a Pioneer Elite receiver and it sounds great also. I also have Peerless Monitor 5’s. The modern Polk bookshelf speakers are a progression of the classic Monitors. The modern Polk bookies have a better top end - the ring radiator tweeter is special as Heiney notes, and the bass is better also. Polk hit it out of the park with the Reserve and Legend series. But, If you feel the set-up you have just won’t accommodate the R200’s, I’d go with your option of the Polk ES15’s, as you are already a fan of the Polk sound. Still excellent cool looking bang for the buck especially on sale.

Nabman

Thank you all again. I have couple of months to evaluate and make a choice.

If I go with passive, Monitor 4 would be a good option provided a good offer comes up in my area (Montréal, Canada); I won't buy used speakers unless I inspect and test them. I know passives sound better and there are more options.

But powered is tempting given my use case and space limitation. So I'm in a bit of a dilemma here.

I hope in the meantime someone with experience with the powered options in my OP would chime in on whether they sound decent.

mhardy6647

I think you know this already, @Nabman but if you go the Monitor 4 route, you should aim for the early version with the Peerless tweeters.


source: https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/148194/opinion-on-polk-monitor-4-with-peerless-tweeters

The later Monitor 4 versions with a smaller Audax (?) dome tweeter aren't, at least in my opinion, in the same league.


source: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/polk-monitor-series-4.691818/

Apologies if this has already been discussed (or even perhaps beaten to death) in this thread!

Good luck!

xschop

Why not upgrade your 5B's. They hit low 30's Hz with authority and your RD0198's are very revealing to boot.

heiney9

xschop wrote: »

Why not upgrade your 5B's. They hit low 30's Hz with authority and your RD0198's are very revealing to boot.

I have all the upgrades to my 5B's and in the years Ive had them, they don't come close to hitting the low 30's especially in a large room.

I love my modded 5b's, but in many ways the R200's are better. They have better low level retrieval, more transparency, smoother more linear mids and bass is a bit cleaner. The RD0 tweeter is not quite as good as the ring radiator. I still love the sound of the 5b since that's the first Polk I owned in the 80's.

la2vegas

Forget the tri force tweeter, get these instead. No affiliation
https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ele/d/grand-prairie-polk-monitor-peerless/7521025512.html

Nightfall

la2vegas wrote: »

Forget the tri force tweeter, get these instead. No affiliation
https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ele/d/grand-prairie-polk-monitor-peerless/7521025512.html

Good deal

xschop

heiney9 wrote: »

xschop wrote: »

Why not upgrade your 5B's. They hit low 30's Hz with authority and your RD0198's are very revealing to boot.

I have all the upgrades to my 5B's and in the years Ive had them, they don't come close to hitting the low 30's especially in a large room.

I love my modded 5b's, but in many ways the R200's are better. They have better low level retrieval, more transparency, smoother more linear mids and bass is a bit cleaner. The RD0 tweeter is not quite as good as the ring radiator. I still love the sound of the 5b since that's the first Polk I owned in the 80's.

You're right on the larger room and low 30s spl. When I have them in the living room which Is connected to the kitchen with 12 ft ceilings, the bass output is lower than when I have them in garage/shop area about half the room size.

5Bs are not fully modded until they are phase-plugged, foam-framed, baffle completely stiffened, and billet tweeter bezels installed with hurricane nuts. The RDOs are mediocre in their plastic housings.

heiney9

So, in other words a completely different speaker that really isn't a 5B anymore.

H9

xschop

If you change just the internal wiring, they are not factory 5Bs.

heiney9

Tweaking vs. a complete redesign. There are tweaks that can improve the sound w/o sacrificing the 5B sound from the factory.

You're playing with semantics here. It's like saying a resto-mod camaro is still a camaro. Sure the body looks familiar, the badges say camaro but it's really no longer a camaro. It's a completely different car. If you can't see that...........well you're blind.

I'm sure the speakers you built based on the 5B sound great, better than any 5B, but they are no longer Polk 5B's. And to pass them off as 5B's is really disingenuous.

H9

xschop

To quote you, the modded 5B's are...
"A modern "Polk" sound tied to the past"

I guess everyone here that has modded vintage SDAs or monitors is "disingenuous" lol.

Nabman

Hi,

Update: I finally went with a pair of Polk ES20 bookshelves for my secondary system (Node2i streamer and Onkyo TX-2500MKII receiver that I had recently restored).

I have the ES20s 5" from the back wall and several feet away from side walls in a medium sized room, and they produce good bass (a bit boomy with some rock but balanced with acoustic jazz).

I don't have them positioned for ideal imaging and soundstage as this system is for entertainment and not for critical listening. Yet they sound amazing overall and I highly recommend them.

Happy new year to all.
Nabman