SDA (2B) shipment loss claim valuation

RicardoSDA

New-ish to the Forum but an SDA owner since the mid-80s here.

An old friend since high school in Texas recently gifted me a pair of 2Bs.

UPS lost one of them on its way to me in California.

I reflexively put a (high) $500 valuation on each box when I created the waybills. After numerous tedious phone calls, a supervisor has approved the claim in no small part because of so many internal UPS issues, including a lack of any scans on the box whatsoever. (Thankfully, they're not just denying that they ever even picked up the box. Perhaps I should have asked my friend to take the speakers to a UPS Store for packaging and handling thereby reducing plausible deniability. But I was trying to make the process as easy as possible for my friend by arranging for pickup right from his front door.)

The issue is providing some kind of proof of actual or replacement value.

He bought the speaks from an ebay brick and mortar (remember those?) about 10 years ago. He no longer has access to the former work e-mail tied to the former ebay account used to make the purchase. I'm familiar with how to "Request your eBay data" wherein they can send you all manner of archived history on your account. But that Zip file is sent to the e-mail address of record for the account (which, again, he no longer has access to).

Looking at "Completed Items" on ebay is inconclusive--there are few listings for 2Bs.

Seeking input from anyone who's actually been in this kind of circumstance before with lost Polk SDA: How to substantiate the value of a piece of vintage, no-longer-manufactured gear.

Gardenstater

Give them the parts list of all the Sonicaps and Mills that you updated them with. Easily takes that to $500 ea.

RicardoSDA

Tony M wrote: »

You bought insurance, they paid.

You valued them at 500 each.

They're worth 500 a pair on the most bestest day imaginable. 300 pr. is my max.

So why are you wanting to know what they're worth on the market?

You're mis-reading the post/I was not clear.

The claim has been approved for payment. Per my post, "[t]he issue is providing some kind of proof of actual or replacement value."

As it has been explained to me by the UPS supervisor, approval of the claim--in other words, agreement that the shipment is lost--is not the same as a decision about valuation/how much to pay out. I don't know what world you're in but insurance doesn't pay out at whatever value the claimant says the lost or damaged item is worth without documentation. Per my post, I said I "reflexively" chose $500. I wasn't expecting a loss.

Again, I'm seeking input from those who've actually experienced loss of an SDA (or other vintage/no-long-made item) by a major carrier regarding how you substantiated replacement value in the absence of documentation of actual cost paid. Have you?

txcoastal1

They are a pair regardless of only losing 1 speaker. If you find another pair it will cost plus shipping to replace. So replacement will be $500

Emlyn

I'm not seeing any recent Ebay sales of the 2B model but there are a couple of listings. They're usually listed for between $250 and $400 a pair depending on condition from what I recall seeing in the last few years. The values have been quite stable for quite a few years. You could also look for SDA 2 values on this forum's marketplace listings. There's not much difference in price between SDA 2A and SDA 2B used if they're stock.

From what I understand the UPS claims process requires documentation of value and even a serial number over a certain price point. Insurance departments like to make it hard to file claims successfully.

RicardoSDA

Thanks for the responsive replies, txcoastal1 and Emlyn.

You make an excellent point, txcoastal: Although the Polk site of course sells single speakers, when/if I locate aftermarket SDAs they will be sold as a pair. They of course operate as a pair and I'm glad I addressed that when I did my initial claim submission. I gave a basic explanation of SDA tech and how a non-SDA speaker from even the same manufacturer isn't an acceptable replacement.

Yes, Emlyn, I think the best I'm able to do is look at/offer "comps" to UPS claims. It's helpful to know what range you've seen pricing at over the past few years. I will spend some time looking at the Forum's marketplace.

Since I did the OP, I also remembered OfferUp.com which focuses on local offerings. That's helpful to factor in to the calculus; these listings for 2s that I see on the other side of the country further complicate the replacement value question because they are often for local pickup only.

Emlyn

One thing problematic about trying to place a value on something that was last made more than 30 years ago is if they were in mint condition when they were shipped it'll be almost impossible now to find an exact replacement that doesn't require expensive shipping on top of the price someone is willing to sell them for. If a comparable pair could be found on Ebay I'd add the shipping cost to the value as well.

engie490

If you look at Hifi Shark, you can search for "Polk SDA2B". Once the search comes up, it will default to "For Sale", but there's a "Sold/Expired" tab also. Click on that and you can see how much they were advertised for on several sites (but it doesn't give you the ebay sales). The bad news is the highest price I could find for a pair is $400. Good luck!

Gardenstater

"If" ( ) those speakers had upgraded crossovers, dynamatted drivers, Blackhole5, etc.., their *replacement* value will be considerably higher than their *retail* value.

Some insurance companies actually make a sales point of stating that they pay replacement cost.

You could show them that you are being reasonable by deducting the parting out value of the MW drivers in the one speaker you do have. You will have to buy a pair of speakers as was stated previously.

RicardoSDA

engie490 wrote: »

If you look at Hifi Shark, you can search for "Polk SDA2B". Once the search comes up, it will default to "For Sale", but there's a "Sold/Expired" tab also. Click on that and you can see how much they were advertised for on several sites (but it doesn't give you the ebay sales). The bad news is the highest price I could find for a pair is $400. Good luck!

Thanks very much for the responsive reply, engie490.

Just since I started the thread, I happened to discover HiFi Shark. That's a good resource and I appreciate your doing some searching yourself and mentioning the highest value you found.

RicardoSDA

Gardenstater wrote: »

"If" ( ) those speakers had upgraded crossovers, dynamatted drivers, Blackhole5, etc.., their *replacement* value will be considerably higher than their *retail* value.

Some insurance companies actually make a sales point of stating that they pay replacement cost.

You could show them that you are being reasonable by deducting the parting out value of the MW drivers in the one speaker you do have. You will have to buy a pair of speakers as was stated previously.

Thank you, Gardenstater.

In retrospect, I wish I'd made a stronger, clearer case in my claim for replacement value. Perhaps instead of even mentioning the absence of the ebay purchase confirmation e-mail with the price paid, I should have made it plain that replacement valuation has to contemplate a pair of speakers. Period. Either way, I think there's going to be an argument.

K_M

Gardenstater wrote: »

"If" ( ) those speakers had upgraded crossovers, dynamatted drivers, Blackhole5, etc.., their *replacement* value will be considerably higher than their *retail* value.

Some insurance companies actually make a sales point of stating that they pay replacement cost.

You could show them that you are being reasonable by deducting the parting out value of the MW drivers in the one speaker you do have. You will have to buy a pair of speakers as was stated previously.

I am not so sure an insurance company would go for that though. You would need extensive proof of the modifications, and receipts and so on, and have to be able to convince them without doubt, those more expensive parts were actually boxed and shipped as part of the actual item sold.

Anything customized "after the fact" such as cars or electronics, it is tough to make a call.

TennMan

K_M wrote: »

Anything customized "after the fact" such as cars or electronics, it is tough to make a call.

Might not be that hard on 2Bs compared to some other speakers. There should be quite a few modified 2B sales in the "For Sale" forum here on Club Polk. Some proof of the asking price and what they actually sold for, along with copies of receipts for upgrades, should be enough if the insurance adjuster is willing to work with you. I have copies of everything for My 2B-TLs. Not only the receipts for the the purchase of speakers and parts, but photos of all modifications and parts used. Not everyone will have all that. If you don't have all that stuff you're at the mercy of the adjuster and their #1 job is to save the insurance company money.

xschop

I'm still at a "loss" how they lost a heavy, large-boxed speaker.

audioluvr

xschop wrote: »

I'm still at a "loss" how they lost a heavy, large-boxed speaker.

Probably out the unlatched back door somewhere.

Do you want me to send you a bill of sale for those speakers I sold you? Just send $250 for postage and handling.

VR3

Probably at the bottom of a lake in Alabama

F1nut

xschop wrote: »

I'm still at a "loss" how they lost a heavy, large-boxed speaker.

UPS delivered an average of 25.2 million packages per day in 2021, that's how.

txcoastal1

My mother ordered me a real Christmas wreath one year…it got lost

I did receive right before Xmas the follow year…friggin brown needles everywhere in my entry
We got a good laugh

RicardoSDA

Removed the radiator to see what was moving inside the cabinet (of the one speaker that got delivered).
It's the circuit board. Is this supposed to be secured to something?




Also noted that there are two, loose wires coming off the board terminated by fastons. Are these supposed to be connected to the coil?

TennMan

Yes, the crossover board should be held by the white plastic standoffs sticking up on the coil. They go through holes in the board. The wires should be plugged on to the spade connectors sticking out of the coil in your photo.

RicardoSDA

TennMan wrote: »

Yes, the crossover board should be held by the white plastic standoffs sticking up on the coil. They go through holes in the board. The wires should be plugged on to the spade connectors sticking out of the coil in your photo.

Thank you, TennMan.

I note one wire connection to the board is labeled "P" and the other is labeled "R." I don't see corresponding labeling on the coil. I would think there are phase/polarity issues such that each wire is supposed to be connected to a particular spade on the coil, yes?

F1nut

It doesn't matter.

RicardoSDA

Still awaiting a UPS decision on the claim filed a little over two weeks ago. Supposedly it's a 10-15 day process.

Even if they receive loss/damage claims on .75% of the packages they handle daily, with supposedly a little over 25M packages delivered per day in 2021 that's still a LOT of claims.