Shootout between R200's, L200's and LSiM-703's
I've been promising a couple notes about the R200's, L200's and LSiM-703's head-to-head. I'm bored as a coyote in a Hello Kitty boutique today, and I have a quick New York minute, so here it is. But before you start alleging crimes against nature, let me set a couple things straight. First, this is limited strictly to bookies. I've never heard the R600's or R700's, and this has nothing to do with center channels. We're also talking strictly two-channel here.
Lots of folks have been talking about the R200's, some have purchased them, as I did. These are my views while simultaneously owning the R200's, L200's and LSiM-703's. I also have LSi-9's and various prior Polk bookies but I will not discuss these, as the former are quite simply better.
Here's the bottom line: The R200 are really nice speakers. The L200's are better. They should be. The LSiM-703's are better than the R200's but not better than the L200's. As they also should be. The L200's are the flagship. The 703's were the flagship before that. The L200's have a "richer" bass and midrange than the R200's. Not necessarily deeper bass, but fuller and more extended LF's. There's nothing wrong with the R200's and they are are the best bang for the buck out there for under a grand. But they are more confined when put up against the L200's. The L200's have a fuller spectrum top to bottom. Maybe "more open" would also be an appropriate description. More detail, more clarity. Both have excellent LF output and both could be called smooth, but the L200's are simply a better speaker, a more dynamic speaker. Its not a 5% or 10% better but I hesitate to put a number on it. The question simply comes down to whether you think its worth the price for what the L200's do better. That, of course, depends on what the price is that you pay.
I will also re-emphasize a point I've made several times previously: better equipment will reap rewards. This is true with any top quality speaker but especially true with any of these three speakers. You simply won't notice as much difference if you are running mediocre equipment, or if your source is mediocre. That is elemental. If you are listening to SACD's on a quality player you will notice much more difference than from rebooks, and more so if you are listening to less than rebook quality. If you are listening to Mobile Fidelity MFSL 45 RPM Master Recordings on a quality table with a quality cartridge and quality phono pre-amp you will notice more difference. These speakers, especially the L200''s will reward quality with quality. These speakers will keep sounding better and better as the equipment and the source get better. That cannot be said for lots of other speakers.
Both the R200 and the L200 are excellent on female voices - exceptional vocal clarity. When I was listening to the blues I also noticed how each treated harmonica notes with precision, with the L200 showing more extension and clarity. As much as a pain it is to turn over a 45 RPM album, Dire Straits Brothers In Arms is an excellent reference LP and it showed the differences between the R200's and L200's perhaps best of all. Mark Knopfler's band shows a variety of instruments and each highlights the differences in the speakers. Mark's guitar especially, but also the keyboards, the other stringed instruments as well as the cymbals.
The LSiM-703's are overall a step up from the R200's. As I said, they ought to be - they were the flagship at twice the cost of the R200's fifteen or whatever years ago. Perhaps the R200's have a better top end? More extension? That ring radiator tweeter is special. As you may know, I have always thought very highly of the 703's, they are a very good bookie, three-way design, mids are nice, real strong bass, really nice overall sound. The R200's are very nice as well, but the 703's are better.
I should note in closing that I had several friends over at different times to provide independent views of these speakers. The ultimate conclusions were unanimous. Polk's engineers did a great job with all three iterations of these speakers. As I said, I really liked the 703's when I got them. I also liked the LSi-7's and 9's when I got them. The L200's are better than the 703's. As they should be. The R200's are also really nice speakers, however
Lots of folks have been talking about the R200's, some have purchased them, as I did. These are my views while simultaneously owning the R200's, L200's and LSiM-703's. I also have LSi-9's and various prior Polk bookies but I will not discuss these, as the former are quite simply better.
Here's the bottom line: The R200 are really nice speakers. The L200's are better. They should be. The LSiM-703's are better than the R200's but not better than the L200's. As they also should be. The L200's are the flagship. The 703's were the flagship before that. The L200's have a "richer" bass and midrange than the R200's. Not necessarily deeper bass, but fuller and more extended LF's. There's nothing wrong with the R200's and they are are the best bang for the buck out there for under a grand. But they are more confined when put up against the L200's. The L200's have a fuller spectrum top to bottom. Maybe "more open" would also be an appropriate description. More detail, more clarity. Both have excellent LF output and both could be called smooth, but the L200's are simply a better speaker, a more dynamic speaker. Its not a 5% or 10% better but I hesitate to put a number on it. The question simply comes down to whether you think its worth the price for what the L200's do better. That, of course, depends on what the price is that you pay.
I will also re-emphasize a point I've made several times previously: better equipment will reap rewards. This is true with any top quality speaker but especially true with any of these three speakers. You simply won't notice as much difference if you are running mediocre equipment, or if your source is mediocre. That is elemental. If you are listening to SACD's on a quality player you will notice much more difference than from rebooks, and more so if you are listening to less than rebook quality. If you are listening to Mobile Fidelity MFSL 45 RPM Master Recordings on a quality table with a quality cartridge and quality phono pre-amp you will notice more difference. These speakers, especially the L200''s will reward quality with quality. These speakers will keep sounding better and better as the equipment and the source get better. That cannot be said for lots of other speakers.
Both the R200 and the L200 are excellent on female voices - exceptional vocal clarity. When I was listening to the blues I also noticed how each treated harmonica notes with precision, with the L200 showing more extension and clarity. As much as a pain it is to turn over a 45 RPM album, Dire Straits Brothers In Arms is an excellent reference LP and it showed the differences between the R200's and L200's perhaps best of all. Mark Knopfler's band shows a variety of instruments and each highlights the differences in the speakers. Mark's guitar especially, but also the keyboards, the other stringed instruments as well as the cymbals.
The LSiM-703's are overall a step up from the R200's. As I said, they ought to be - they were the flagship at twice the cost of the R200's fifteen or whatever years ago. Perhaps the R200's have a better top end? More extension? That ring radiator tweeter is special. As you may know, I have always thought very highly of the 703's, they are a very good bookie, three-way design, mids are nice, real strong bass, really nice overall sound. The R200's are very nice as well, but the 703's are better.
I should note in closing that I had several friends over at different times to provide independent views of these speakers. The ultimate conclusions were unanimous. Polk's engineers did a great job with all three iterations of these speakers. As I said, I really liked the 703's when I got them. I also liked the LSi-7's and 9's when I got them. The L200's are better than the 703's. As they should be. The R200's are also really nice speakers, however
Comments
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Nice review, sir!
I am pretty much done with speakers, and for that matter, most of my rig (except the vinyl aspect of it) but your review here made me think back of all of the fun times I had doing exactly what you did here.
Actually makes me miss it a bit...*watery eyes*
Polk really did do a great job on this speaker lineup. From the new SDA on down....what a pleasant surprise! Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
*Excellent* info, Don.
I'd place the three in that order as well.
I never really could quite put into words the differences I experienced between the L200 and R200, except to say maybe that the R200 was a somewhat "cooler" sounding speaker to me. Somehow a bit less rich, less life than the L200 and LSiM 703. The words robotic and digital kept/keep coming to mind, as in to say, they play the music perfectly well over them, but something barely noticeable was missing.
I especially like/agree with what you say here below with the comparison between the R200 and 703. I also noticed the top end improvement of the R200 over 703 with the new ring radiator tweeter in the former - the 703s can get a little edgy up top at times - but even so, still found myself preferring the 703 overall between it and the R200.The LSiM-703's are overall a step up from the R200's. As I said, they ought to be - they were the flagship at twice the cost of the R200's fifteen or whatever years ago. Perhaps the R200's have a better top end? More extension? That ring radiator tweeter is special. As you may know, I have always thought very highly of the 703's, they are a very good bookie, three-way design, mids are nice, real strong bass, really nice overall sound. The R200's are very nice as well, but the 703's are better.
I'm glad to have a pair of R200s and will set them up in a 2.1 at the gf's place with a B&K AVR507. They're a really good speaker, and I didn't want to return them, and building that system was a great excuse to keep them.
I disabled signatures. -
Thanks for posting your thoughts on the comparison of these three speakers. I’ve really been wondering how the Legends and Reserve stack up to the Lsim line so this is great. Would like to get some Legends in the house at some point when I can get a deal, especially after reading this.
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I have a set of 703's I purchased many moons ago, played with them for a few days, and they have been sitting under the stairs for years now. my plan was to set them up in with the rest of my LSiM's in my HT, ended up with in ceiling atmos speakers.
Then I thought I would set them up in my computer area, and that has never came to be either.
So I basically have a new set of 703's doing nothing, maybe someday..
As much as I would like to have the legends in my HT, I am just not sure I have it in me to swap everything out again. Everything is mounted, set-up, and they sound great. In all honesty there are aspects I miss about the RTiA set-up I had before the LSiM's, mainly when I watch a movie. They were a little more forward sounding when watching action movies IMO.
Thanks for the review, and reminding me that I have some speakers stashed in the house..
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Thanks for the observations, Don.
Pretty much how I thought it might go. I am thrilled with the R200's for my application. For a secondary office rig, I just couldn't justify the extra cost for the L200's. The best thing about it is, Polk Audio is back to designing and manufacturing great speakers again.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Polk made a genius move coming out with the R200’s. They are really good speakers and eleviated the concern many had with the price of the L200’s. That being said, I put some pretty pricey competitor’s bookies up against the L200’s and the L200’s beat them so I don’t think the L200’s were priced out-of-line with what’s out there -nevertheless there remained the perception that they are pricey. There can be no such concern with the R200’s. Sale prices on either make the decision easy. I just sold a pair of 703’s and couldn’t get four bills for midnight mahoganies here on the forum. I couldn’t believe it. I ended up selling them for $350. Those speakers stomped everything that came thru here, and I had a whole bunch try. Whatever concern one may have that 703 drivers may be difficult to obtain kind of pukes out the window at that price. For whatever reason, people have forgotten how good the 703’s are, but they are truly excellent bookies. If you have 703’s already you may want to wait until the L200’s go on sale if you are considering them as the 703’s are just about as good in the LFs but the L200’s take the cake with the ring radiator tweeters -yet the 703’s are still fine fine bookies. None of these speakers suffer fools easily however so good gear will reap rewards and if you have mediocre gear you may come to different conclusions. But by all accounts these were the results with my gear. I’ve said it before and it’s common sense, there is institutional history at Polk and it’s engineers build strength upon strength. The Legend series is the state of their art at present. But they’ve done a great job with other speaker line-ups as well. We all know this but we take it for granted sometimes.
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Thanks for posting this Dro!Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears
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I thought the 703s I had sounded pretty bland when run from a receiver. They really woke up, more than any other speaker I've had, when run with a Parasound A21 amp and an Anthem Pre-2L tube preamp. The biggest improvement was in bass output.
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I thought the 703s I had sounded pretty bland when run from a receiver. They really woke up, more than any other speaker I've had, when run with a Parasound A21 amp and an Anthem Pre-2L tube preamp. The biggest improvement was in bass output.
I don’t know about the bland part, but I agree that my 703s woke up and sounded really good with a rotel pre and a rotel 200 wpc amp…they were excellent speakers with that gear…Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
I thought the 703s I had sounded pretty bland when run from a receiver. They really woke up, more than any other speaker I've had, when run with a Parasound A21 amp and an Anthem Pre-2L tube preamp. The biggest improvement was in bass output.
That is exactly what I am talking about. I had the same experience with them and the L200's and the R200's. I actually thought mediocre was a kind description of my L200's on a receiver. But when I put them on good power they woke up perhaps more than any other speaker I've ever had, just as you stated. -
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Nice review , thanks for the write up. I really want to get a pair of these R200's for a good demo. I'm considering getting a completely different setup.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I sure remember Cathy. She's been gone for a few years now."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Haha, you sure about that?? Looks to me like she's still lurking:
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I wish she, and others, would post. Her posts that I remember were fine, but the childish comments from the peanut gallery have driven many away.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
There really hasn't been a peanut gallery here in a few years IMO, so maybe the peanut gallery is who left.I wish she, and others, would post. Her posts that I remember were fine, but the childish comments from the peanut gallery have driven many away.
With that said, we all have our moments of orneriness, and poking the bear a little, including Cathy.
We all have our moments of stubbornness as well, and that usually is where the problems start, especially in this little audio world we live in..
I personally liked Cathy, she was always willing to help, and not everyone can or cares to be in the "High End" world of audio, and IMO Cathy knew that, and shared that knowledge, and was there to help those obtain good sound when they may just have a low/mid end receiver.
She was/is passionate/proud about the system she had pieced together through the years.
Maybe, just maybe, we are all part of the peanut gallery Mr Blue, including you.. -
May 30 of what year? A year from now if she never logs in it will say the same date. I don't think she's been here for a few years now.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
May 30 of what year? A year from now if she never logs in it will say the same date.
No. It displays the year if it's older than the current year:
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Interesting.
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Great write up Don.
I especially like the comparison to the 703 to provide perspective to those of us who have heard the 703, but not the Reserve or Legend series. Like you, I was/am a big fan of the 703. While I have moved up the chain, I do sometimes miss them. Your insight certainly makes me think I would enjoy both of the new models. I hope to hear them at some point.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and experience.
Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden -
There are so many Legend versus LSiM threads I wasn't sure the best one to ask this but here goes.
If you had to quantify the improvement from the LSiM series to the Legend series what would it be?
I understand there are so many factors that come into play but for a purely Home Theater setup how much benefit could there potentially be assuming high quality gear.
The main desired improvement I would be looking for is overall detail, clarity and dynamics to most accurately reproduce the soundtracks as possible.
My internal debate is upgrading from LSiM 707s, 706C, 703s to either L600, L400, L200 or L200, L400, L200.
For purely home theater would there be any benefit using the L600 instead of the L200 for the main L/R channels.
It may not show up in my signature but these would be driven by Parasound Halo series amps and a Anthem AVM90 processor or a JBL SDP-55 (can't decide which I want to keep).2 Channel
Pre:Bryston BP173
Amp:Bryston 14B3
Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Reference
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Bryston BDA-3, Bryston BDP-3, Bryston BCD-3, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 Speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 XLR, AQ Diamond USB/HDMI
Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
Display: Sony XBR65Z9F
Home Theater
Pre: Anthem AVM90
Amps: Parasound A31, A51x2
Speakers: Polk LSiM 707 (FL/FR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), LSiM 703 (SL/SR/SBL/SBR), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
Subwoofers: SVS SB16 x 4
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: AQ Meteor/Rocket 88, AQ Niagara/Sky
Power: Torus AVR20, Shunyata Denali, Shunyata Delta, Cullen, PangeaAC9SE Cables
Display: Sony XBR85Z9G -
I’ll get back to you very soon on this. Don
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I've been listening to my 705's a lot over the past few days
for music, DVDs and Blu Ray and I'm still very happy with them.
OTOH the L600 or R700 are very interesting
Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears -
The LSiM and Legend speakers can be used together in a home theater system. I have gone with Legend for the front three speakers mainly because they offer greater clarity from the tweeters and midrange drivers. Big advances in those areas. My surround speakers are LSiM703s and LSiM707s. I'm only using the 707s as rear back surrounds because I have them. 703s would be just as good in that position.
My point is, it's not essential to ditch all of the speakers for the Legend series in a home theater system. As long as good subwoofers are available it's personal preference between the L600 and L200 for front main speakers. Personally I'd go with the L600s and the Atmos modules. -
The LSiM and Legend speakers can be used together in a home theater system. I have gone with Legend for the front three speakers mainly because they offer greater clarity from the tweeters and midrange drivers. Big advances in those areas. My surround speakers are LSiM703s and LSiM707s. I'm only using the 707s as rear back surrounds because I have them. 703s would be just as good in that position.
My point is, it's not essential to ditch all of the speakers for the Legend series in a home theater system. As long as good subwoofers are available it's personal preference between the L600 and L200 for front main speakers. Personally I'd go with the L600s and the Atmos modules.
@Emlyn Thanks for your response and offering a solution that helps mitigate the cost. If I move to the Legends my OCD would force me to have all base layer speakers match
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I guess I could try the front three first to what I think. Probably the L400/L200 combo would be best initially so if I decide they are not for me selling/shipping them won't be too bad.
As far as subwoofers go I have 4 SVS SB16s so that should be covered. I also have in-ceiling Polk 900-LS so I would not need the Atmos modules. Up-firing modules are not ideal with many processors for room correction. I know DIRAC does not support them due to time alignment issues.2 Channel
Pre:Bryston BP173
Amp:Bryston 14B3
Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Reference
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Bryston BDA-3, Bryston BDP-3, Bryston BCD-3, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 Speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 XLR, AQ Diamond USB/HDMI
Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
Display: Sony XBR65Z9F
Home Theater
Pre: Anthem AVM90
Amps: Parasound A31, A51x2
Speakers: Polk LSiM 707 (FL/FR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), LSiM 703 (SL/SR/SBL/SBR), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
Subwoofers: SVS SB16 x 4
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: AQ Meteor/Rocket 88, AQ Niagara/Sky
Power: Torus AVR20, Shunyata Denali, Shunyata Delta, Cullen, PangeaAC9SE Cables
Display: Sony XBR85Z9G -
The biggest improvement of the Legends is the ring radiator tweeter, which are a step up from the LSiM's, that's where the difference really becomes apparent, better overall detail, clarity, more extended, more open, but the LF's are similar - both have outstanding low frequencies. Polk did a great job with the Legends, but they also did a great job with LSiM's. If I had the LSiM set-up you have with quality gear it may make sense to wait for a sale on the Legends.
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What color did you get? I'm curious what you think about the finish on the R200'sDan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I thought the finish on the R200s was well done considering their price point. I had the black. Of course, the finish on the L200’s was much better but that is to be expected.
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The biggest improvement of the Legends is the ring radiator tweeter, which are a step up from the LSiM's, that's where the difference really becomes apparent, better overall detail, clarity, more extended, more open, but the LF's are similar - both have outstanding low frequencies. Polk did a great job with the Legends, but they also did a great job with LSiM's. If I had the LSiM set-up you have with quality gear it may make sense to wait for a sale on the Legends.
Thanks for providing your feedback. It is intriguing to see how much of an improvement I would actually observe. The Legends are currently on sale and I could get them for 30% off but I am probably going to hold off and wait. Prices continue to rise on everything so I am concerned this may be the best price for these new in the foreseeable future. I should have taken advantage of the deal Polk offered on here last year. At the time I already had too much extra gear.2 Channel
Pre:Bryston BP173
Amp:Bryston 14B3
Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Reference
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Bryston BDA-3, Bryston BDP-3, Bryston BCD-3, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 Speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 XLR, AQ Diamond USB/HDMI
Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
Display: Sony XBR65Z9F
Home Theater
Pre: Anthem AVM90
Amps: Parasound A31, A51x2
Speakers: Polk LSiM 707 (FL/FR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), LSiM 703 (SL/SR/SBL/SBR), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
Subwoofers: SVS SB16 x 4
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: AQ Meteor/Rocket 88, AQ Niagara/Sky
Power: Torus AVR20, Shunyata Denali, Shunyata Delta, Cullen, PangeaAC9SE Cables
Display: Sony XBR85Z9G -
I thought I would add these CSD plots from Danny Richie measurement and upgrade videos. Makes me wonder if the poorer plots of the R200 and L200 vs Lsim703 could have to do with reflections from the stamped steel baskets, since the Lsim703 has cast alum. frames for the midrange and the midwoofer.
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
