Centre Speaker for LSIM 705

PeterPiper

I have just been able to get hold of a pair of LSIM 705s, hopefully "upgrading" from my old Polk Monitor 10s. My current center speaker is a Mirage OMC 2, which, try as I might, I have not been able to improve on. I tried a couple of Polks, one of similar size, but the earth didn't move. I would love to get a LSIM 706 which would be perfect, but can get hold of an ELAC Debut 2.0 C6.2 much cheaper which seems to have similar sensitivity of 8 ohs and 88db. Of course all of these are unheard, so I'm using the usual stabbing flying fish in the dark with a blunt fork approach. Are the Elacs worth looking at, or should I sell a kidney for a 706 ?

txcoastal1

When setting up your front 3 FL,C,FR timber matching becomes important as images will sound off

The LSiM 704c was weak so yes...sell the kidney, you only need one.

ken brydson

txcoastal1 wrote: »

When setting up your front 3 FL,C,FR timber matching becomes important as images will sound off

The LSiM 704c was weak so yes...sell the kidney, you only need one.

He can't sell here with only 1 post. You know the rules 😁

PeterPiper

Very good Ken ....I hope you don't need to buy one ?!! I'm enjoying both at present and am hoping some glowing praise of ELAC, albeit from Polk enthusiasts, will give me more than medical options ! The 706c is $699 used on ebay versus ELAC $250 new Amazon. That's a wad of money for timbre. My Mirage never matched my Polk Monitor 10s, but has always sounded good...so much so that both attempts at Polk matching didn't improve the sound which I was hoping so I sold them on. But a 706C must sound awesome combined with 705s dammit ?! Mind you the Mirage was $750 when it first came out back in ol' 98 and maybe there is some magic in those 5 drivers I still appreciate!! In fact, I could keep both kidneys and money in the bank by holding onto it.. Mmmm?!

dromunds

Is the Adorama sale on 706’s over? I thought they were $399 and the 704 was $200 but maybe my memory is bad early in the morning and maybe the sale is over but I bet it will come back.

rooftop59

Another option would be the reserve r400 which is on sale direct from Polk for $549. It would be a close timber match…

There is NO good reason to get the Elac. Sensitivity and ohm rating have nothing to do with timbre matching. Your avr can adjust to match the volume output. So either keep what you got or get a similar Polk center…

shs

I use a 703 for my center with 705s for the front left and right. The 703 has the same tweeter and midrange as the 705, and if you have the vertical room, makes a great center channel speaker.

PeterPiper

Many thanks for your suggestions. The 706 is not on sale at present at Adorama but I'll keep and eye out. I have not heard of the Reserve R400 but it looks pretty impressive. I'd be all over the 706C at $399 so here's hoping @Rooftop59..sub in the master bedroom ??!! Very well done haha

Emlyn

Good suggestion on the R400. It's close enough to the LSiM sound to not matter much when sound pans from the mains across the soundstage but yet it's got greater clarity from the improved drivers that make it a considerably better speaker for dialog for watching movies.

rooftop59

PeterPiper wrote: »

Many thanks for your suggestions. The 706 is not on sale at present at Adorama but I'll keep and eye out. I have not heard of the Reserve R400 but it looks pretty impressive. I'd be all over the 706C at $399 so here's hoping @Rooftop59..sub in the master bedroom ??!! Very well done haha

Haha yea at our last house I actually had a full 5.1 setup in there…lsim703s and a 704c with a three channel rotel amp and in ceiling surrounds. It was overkill but pretty awesome. Fortunately I have a game room at this house so no need for that anymore lol…

shs

The R400 is a 2-way MTM design. No way it can be as good a center channel as the 3-way 703 or 706c

Emlyn

I dropped my 706C off at the Salvation Army donation center when I got an R400.

WLDock

Emlyn wrote: »

I dropped my 706C off at the Salvation Army donation center when I got an R400.

Insightful! Not the first comment I've heard like this about the clarity of the R400. At some point I can see Reserve in my future.

DaveHo

shs wrote: »

The R400 is a 2-way MTM design. No way it can be as good a center channel as the 3-way 703 or 706c

I haven't heard the R400, but a blanket statement like that is 100% hogwash.

shs

Horizontal 2-way MTM designs inherently have a poor off-axis response for the critical upper midrange because of the beaming or lobing of the two horizontally spaced woofers. The physics is clear on that. I can see however, that sitting on axis, the limited horizontal dispersion might be experienced as an increase in clarity from the center channel. Not good however if you are sitting off axis. Even on axis, the sound field from the horizontal center might not blend well with the vertical left and right front speakers because of the different off-axis responses. No doubt a 2-way with good components may sound better than a 3-way with poor components, but that is not the case with the R-400 and 706c. The problems with a 2-way MTM center are well documented and discussed in many places.

mrloren

I have the 704C matched in with my 705's, works great. I tried the CSiA6, for movies it is better than the 704c but for SACD it sucked. If the OP is not into SACD or DVD audio then the CSi A6 would be the affordable way to go.

I did get the 706C was too big for my stand.

When the R400 goes on a Adorama sale I'll try it.

PeterPiper

Thanks for your comments and opinions. Ironically the Polk CSiA6 was my last attempt at ultimate timbre matching with my Monitor 10s a few years back. It sounded fine but not better than my Image OMC2. As ever, A/ B testing was impossible. I tend to make my mind up very quickly sometimes..either the earth moves or it doesn't. I maybe have a biased soft spot for the Image, but it's a big beast and some raved about it compared to serious other center speakers back in the day. Maybe I like the way it disperses the sound ? I have not got the LSIM 705s yet as they arrive sometime in the week of June 6, but am already looking ahead to "upgrades". I am hoping they sound better than the Monitor 10s, again using the untested stabbing flying fish in the dark with a blunt fork approach. I will always remain amazed my wife allowed the Monitor 10s into the living room in the first place ! Aesthetically it will be hard for them get an entry ticket back into the lounge once the 705s arrive. It would not be first self inflicted blunder I have made and probably not the last ! Here's hoping.

DaveHo

@PeterPiper check your PMs

WLDock

mrloren wrote: »

When the R400 goes on a Adorama sale I'll try it.

I don't see that Adorama carries Reserve but the whole line is on sale right now at Polk and many other retailers.
https://www.polkaudio.com/en-us/series/reserve

WLDock

shs wrote: »

Horizontal 2-way MTM designs inherently have a poor off-axis response for the critical upper midrange because of the beaming or lobing of the two horizontally spaced woofers. The physics is clear on that. I can see however, that sitting on axis, the limited horizontal dispersion might be experienced as an increase in clarity from the center channel. Not good however if you are sitting off axis. Even on axis, the sound field from the horizontal center might not blend well with the vertical left and right front speakers because of the different off-axis responses. No doubt a 2-way with good components may sound better than a 3-way with poor components, but that is not the case with the R-400 and 706c. The problems with a 2-way MTM center are well documented and discussed in many places.

Yep, myself I have a wide seating area with a couch and loveseat side-by-side and have purposely sought out 3-way center channels over the years.






However, there are situations in which an MTM can work and might be preferred. Great reading, testing here:
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/vertical-vs-horizontal-speaker-designs
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/center-channel-speaker
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/center-channel-designs

Audioholics wrote:

A Compromise to Improve Horizontal MTM Performance
An interesting compromise is the approach that some companies take with their center channel box speakers. (See figure 4, an Atlantic Technology center channel speaker.) They use an “optimized” M-T-M-type of design, whereby the tweeter is raised well above the horizontal centerline of the two midranges. We’ll call this the “raised-tweeter” approach.




The raised-tweeter approach to center-channel design preserves the few advantages that a horizontal MTM has (higher sensitivity, increased power handling, etc), but significantly improves on a horizontal MTM center's greatest shortcoming—its very restricted horizontal dispersion. Raised tweeter centers are much better than a conventional MTM center in that regard, both because the tweeter is not in the same horizontal plane as the woofers and because elevating the tweeter allows the woofers to be brought in significantly closer together. (Remember, two identical drivers covering the same frequency range behave as if they were an oval driver of their combined outer distances apart. Driver directionality is primarily a function of the relationship of the radiated wavelength to the effective piston diameter of the driver. Other factors can also affect directionality, such as cone shape, cone stiffness, breakup modes, among others, but the first determinant of directionality is driver size.) Bringing the dual midranges in much closer to each other minimizes the distance between their acoustic centers, for an effectively smaller radiating dimension, which maximizes their horizontal dispersion.

It is true that that merely elevating the tweeter in a horizontal MTM center is nowhere near as good as a true 3-way with a tweeter above the midrange (with that array between two woofers) with the woofer-to-midrange crossover low enough so the woofers aren't directional in the horizontal plane—assuming the 3-way design uses components of at least the same quality as a 2-way center. This is critical—a “cheap” 3-way that uses inferior drivers and poorly-selected crossover points will sound markedly worse than a well-designed 2-way center that uses high-quality components.

But....the "counter-argument" article posited that a 2-way MTM horizontal center did have a few things going for it, like higher sensitivity and very good power-handling (and hence low distortion) because you had two beefy drivers handling the midrange as opposed to a single smaller midrange in a 3-way center.

Still, the R400 seems to be getting some great feedback. I'm guessing the raised tweeter and engineer Scott Orth must have worked some crossover magic to get the best out of the design.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/polk-audio-polk-reserve-series-r400-large-center-channel-loudspeaker-new-1-pinnacle-ring-tweeter-dual-6-5-turbine-cone-woofers-black/6465719.p?skuId=6465719

Great Center Channel - Crystal Clear Dialogue
I was looking for center channel speaker to improve the loudness and quality of dialogue. I shopped these and equivalent from Martin Logan, Bowers and Wilkins and KEF at price points much higher than Polk. The clarity of dialogue, very clear and distinct. Sound Stage is very broad with a variety of sitting positions available and no loss of sound quality - some of the more expensive equivalents had a very precise sweet spot or sound stage, I found that objectionable considering their price. I have the black finish, which looks similar to a grey slate monolith - gorgeous. Speaker grills are magnetic, and I'm torn between leaving the grills on or off - they are beautiful. It's the perfect match for the movie genre I watch most. I have better sound vs. the competition and spent less. Can't beat that...

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-e5np9iKCD6R/p_107RSV400/Polk-Audio-Reserve-R400-Midnight-Black.html

Incredibly good
I replaced my Polk LSIM 704c center channel with this one, and all I can say is WOW! The clarity of dialogue on this center is really, really impressive! And the thing I liked most was how it handles male voices, especially deeper ones. It sounded completely natural and accurate at all times, and sibilance with s and sh were perfect. For the money, you can't do better.

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B0934R72WL

5.0 out of 5 stars Amazing voice clarity at this price point
I have previously had the Polk LSiM 704c and also the Legend L400 center and to me, the R400 is the best price/performance center that Polk makes. I am just blown away by how crystal clear the dialog is when watching movies in my home theater. The pinnacle tweeter in this center channel is just awesome! I do have it paired with an Outlaw Model 5000 amp so it's getting about 125 watts, and it totally rocks! I also like that I can get it right up against the wall without any boominess. Just perfection to me!

5.0 out of 5 stars Perfection at under $600🔊
Massive Size and Sound, but Beautifully delivers music and movies with accurate detail. Coming from a Polk Signature Series S30, the R400 is breathtaking in its delivery. It brings everything to life

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/polk-audio-reserve-surround-speaker-system-review-page-2

Dialogue in the scenes leading up to the main Godzilla vs. Kong bout—which takes place on an aircraft carrier at sea, no less—had consistently good clarity. I also had no complaints about tonal shifts in human voices when sitting off to one side of my six-foot-wide couch. And while I had no issues with dialogue sounding strained in my medium-sized home theater, I also wondered if the Reserve series' R400 "Performance" center speaker would do better justice to the titanic roars of Godzilla, Kong, and crew, especially in a larger room.

mrloren

WLDock wrote: »

mrloren wrote: »

When the R400 goes on a Adorama sale I'll try it.

I don't see that Adorama carries Reserve but the whole line is on sale right now at Polk and many other retailers.
https://www.polkaudio.com/en-us/series/reserve

Yes I looked at the sale price of the R400, if BestBuy had it in store I might have went and grabbed it.

My experience with the 704c has been love-hate relationship.

For multi channel audio I love it.

For movies and TV not so much. I'm glad I can just hit options on the remote and add a few DB in a pinch. I just have to remember to take it back down for audio.

For the $200 I paid for the 704c I should not complain. I also made it back when I sold the 706c. Paid $399 and sold it for $500

If I didn't have a ton of SACD I would still have the CSiA6.

rooftop59

Is your center stuffed inside a cabinet @mrloren?

mrloren

rooftop59 wrote: »

Is your center stuffed inside a cabinet @mrloren?

Yes, full open back cabinet

rooftop59

mrloren wrote: »

rooftop59 wrote: »

Is your center stuffed inside a cabinet @mrloren?

Yes, full open back cabinet

Did the csi a6 sound better stuffed in a cabinet? On top would be better, although I have run centers in cabinets with good results…

mrloren

rooftop59 wrote: »

mrloren wrote: »

rooftop59 wrote: »

Is your center stuffed inside a cabinet @mrloren?

Yes, full open back cabinet

Did the csi a6 sound better stuffed in a cabinet? On top would be better, although I have run centers in cabinets with good results…

I had both CSi-5 & A6 in there, both were great with my RTi-8 and S60's. With the LSiM-705 the CSi a6 was still great on movies, go to SACD and yuck. @ $200 I could not pass up the 704c. Like I said above for Movies and TV I just have to bump it up a few DB.

There was no problem with the CSi centers it was the timber matching to the LSiM.

I like my current setup, the LSiM-705 are the best speaker I have owned to date. Yesterday was a house cleaning day. Playing some Elton @ -17db (kind-a loud) my wife sat down, said she was resting.

_mo_

I came here to get answers, and you all already had the perfect thread started for me...it's like you knew!!!

Two local sales came across my facebook marketplace today: an L100 in really good shape for $300 and an LSIM704c for $200 that is a little scratched up on top, but otherwise in good condition. I'm going to pick up the L100's because at that price I can't resist, but questioning the LSIM704c. It would replace a CS400i that is currently paired with two RT55i's in my basement movie/game room. I love that setup, and the comments about the LSIM704 being weak make me wonder if I should just leave that setup alone and use the L100s for music in a different room. Would love your thoughts.

Emlyn

The CS400i is a better center speaker with the RT55i in place than the 704C.

_mo_

Well, yeah...I guess I should have worded that better. I guess the real question is:

RT55i + CS400i

or

L100 + LsiM704c

dromunds

L100’s will be significantly better in the top end.