Wood-finishing question

jdjohn

I have a pair of Epicure Model 5 speakers from my dad's collection, which I am re-furbing a bit. These have real-wood veneers, and the cabinets are in pretty good shape, but a previous owner was (apparently) painting their walls, and a few rogue roller/brush strokes touched the speakers.

What's the best process for removing these spots, and then adding a fresh finish to the wood veneers? Are mineral spirits the best solvent to use for removing the paint spots?

And then what about roughing-up the surface, and adding a new finish?

Thanks in advance!

pitdogg2

Did you try a plastic scraper? I used to have a plastic razor blade that came in handy for things like that.

jdjohn

I have plastic putty knives of various widths, but not a plastic razor blade. I could look into those more.

What about the overall roughing-up? Is a fine steel-wool the best option?

txcoastal1

Do not use wool. Use a plastic or some as hard as a fingernail

I wouldn't use solvents either

F1nut

What's the best process for removing these spots, and then adding a fresh finish to the wood veneers?

Is it latex or oil paint?

What is the original finish? If in good shape why do you want to freshen it?

F1nut

Found this,

The cabinets of your EPICURE speakers are finished with a "Danish" stain process. This finishing process brings out the beauty of the natural wood veneers used on the cabinets. No top coating, lacquer or varnish is applied to the finished cabinet because it would hide some of the natural grain of the wood.

The veneer on your EPICURE loudspeaker will require conditioning when they are first removed from the packing carton. Then periodic applications of furniture oil will maintain their original appearance.

The veneer should be conditioned immediately after unpacking. To properly condition this veneer you will need a quality furniture oil and two soft cotton cloths. Do not use furniture wax, polishes or cleaners on this finish. Do not use oils that contain petroleum distillates or solvents. The chemicals in some waxes may react with the stain resulting in an uneven finish. Also, waxes tend to seal the wood which prevents the finish of your EPICURE speakers from curing properly.

Apply a moderate amount of furniture oil to one of your cloths and lightly rub the oil into the wood. Work on a one foot square section at a time until you complete the initial conditioning of the cabinet. Apply additional oil if you notice the wood has absorbed the oil initially applied. Do not be concerned if you notice some excess stain coming off on your cloth. This is normal for a young oil finish.

After applying the oil evenly to the entire cabinet let it absorb the oil for several minutes. Then lightly buff the cabinet with the other clean, dry cloth. This procedure removes any excess oil and completes the initial conditioning of your cabinets. When dusting your cabinets use a soft dry cloth to lightly wipe off the dust. If, after a period of time the cabinets appear dry or dull, simply repeat the oiling process described above.

Furniture oil can be any one of a thousand products, so they aren't being very helpful. As far I know there no such product as "Danish" stain. Sounds to me like they applied a stain of some sort without anything to seal it. Never a good idea.

The comment about not using wax is BS as is the reason for not using lacquer or varnish. In fact, lacquer or varnish will greatly enhance the grain of the wood.

It's highly likely the paint is latex, so use Goo Gone. It'll take some time/effort to remove the paint, but it's a safe bet to try first. Apply to a soft cotton rag and rub it on the paint. Don't expect instant results, you have to let the product soften the paint.

jdjohn

F1nut wrote: »

What's the best process for removing these spots, and then adding a fresh finish to the wood veneers?

Is it latex or oil paint?

Probably so Sorry to be cheeky, but I've learned from the masters here. How can I tell, and what are the options?

"F1nut wrote:

What is the original finish? If in good shape why do you want to freshen it?

If I end up stripping some of the original finish while removing the random paint splotches, I'd like to know the best method of restoring/enhancing the remaining finish. The original finish seems to be a stain with a thin protective finish on top. I'm fine with just adding another layer (without color), but not sure about the process.

Again, thanks for the insights.

F1nut

You can't tell by looking at it. Try the Goo Gone and if it does absolutely nothing you'll know it's oil paint.

If it has what appears to be a thin protective film then someone has applied a product such as Watco Danish oil, so applying more will blend in any removal of the original. Goo Gone should not remove an oil finish.

jdjohn

F1nut wrote: »

Furniture oil can be any one of a thousand products, so they aren't being very helpful. As far I know there no such product as "Danish" stain. Sounds to me like they applied a stain of some sort without anything to seal it. Never a good idea.

The comment about not using wax is BS as is the reason for not using lacquer or varnish. In fact, lacquer or varnish will greatly enhance the grain of the wood.

It's highly likely the paint is latex, so use Goo Gone. It'll take some time/effort to remove the paint, but it's a safe bet to try first. Apply to a soft cotton rag and rub it on the paint. Don't expect instant results, you have to let the product soften the paint.

Thanks for researching that, Jesse. Funny how a company in New England would reference a 'Danish' stain. I've seen a few examples, now, of stains being applied to speaker cabinets with no protective coating...very sad.

Anyway, I will try Goo Gone to strip the paint blotches. I've used ISA in the past to remove random paint spots, but it tends to dull the overall finish.

jdjohn

Yes, I have noticed that about him The Goo Gone didn't really touch the random paint spots, and I did give it a good effort, so I'm guessing it must be oil-based. However, the Goo Gone did give the finish a fresh luster, so I applied it all over. I'm guessing the finish must be a satin texture, and not glossy. These speakers aren't going to be show pieces, so I might leave them as-is, or just apply some Old English/Pledge, or Murphy's Oil Soap? I guess I could spring for some Watco Danish Oil since they appear to have it at Home Depot.

Jimbo18

Goo Gone makes a graphitti remover that should take care of it. Agressive though so test it out first if you go that way.

F1nut

The Goo Gone is not a finish and will evaporate in short order. Next up, use Goof Off. It's a lot stronger than Goo Gone and will likely affect whatever "finish" is on there. If that doesn't work use lacquer thinner. Since you will be applying Watco or the like it will restore whatever "finish" is removed.

Do NOT use Old English/Pledge, or Murphy's Oil Soap. If you have any of those products around throw that crap away.

audioluvr

I was going to suggest a belt sander but sounds like you have your mind made up.

Jimbo18

F1nut wrote: »

The Goo Gone is not a finish and will evaporate in short order. Next up, use Goof Off. It's a lot stronger than Goo Gone and will likely affect whatever "finish" is on there. If that doesn't work use lacquer thinner. Since you will be applying Watco or the like it will restore whatever "finish" is removed.

Do NOT use Old English/Pledge, or Murphy's Oil Soap. If you have any of those products around throw that crap away.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I wasn't suggesting the Goo Gone Graffiti remover as a finish, but rather to remove the paint that might be oil based.

F1nut

Jimbo18 wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

The Goo Gone is not a finish and will evaporate in short order. Next up, use Goof Off. It's a lot stronger than Goo Gone and will likely affect whatever "finish" is on there. If that doesn't work use lacquer thinner. Since you will be applying Watco or the like it will restore whatever "finish" is removed.

Do NOT use Old English/Pledge, or Murphy's Oil Soap. If you have any of those products around throw that crap away.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I wasn't suggesting the Goo Gone Graffiti remover as a finish, but rather to remove the paint that might be oil based.

You were clear. My comments were directed to jdjohn.

jdjohn

I feel certain that we have a bottle of Goof Off around the house, somewhere, but we couldn't find it. I'm sure it will turn up at some point. However, we DID find a small can/bottle of Goo Gone Xtreme, which is no longer made (to my knowledge), but in my estimation, functions exactly like Goof Off. It is a very strong solvent, and it removed the paint splotches in short order, but predictably, also removed whatever 'finish' existed on the speaker cabinets in those spots, plus part of the stain...evidenced by looking at the spots on the application cloth.

That's an expected result when trying to remove stubborn paint spots from a clear finish wood piece. It leaves a slightly faded spot.

With positive anticipation, I then applied Watco Danish Oil with the 'Natural' tint. This is good stuff, as it penetrates the wood like an oil, but also hardens the surface as it dries, providing a fresh layer of protection, especially for aged wooden pieces. However, it did not even-out the faded color spots of the remaining finish...but, I think we have to further define the term 'finish'.

I'm sure @F1nut can clarify, but I think 'finish' (in wood-working terms) is in reference to the final layer of a (supposedly) clear layer of protective coating. It can have various degrees of 'sheen', from dull/matte, to satin/semi-gloss, up to shiny/high-gloss. In this regard, I can attest that the Watco Danish Oil added a fresh layer of (attractive) clear protection...in my estimation.

But, it did not even-out the color. Perhaps this is considered secondary to 'finish' protection, and maybe if one qualifies 'finish' to exclude color variations, it is just a matter of semantics, and understanding of wood 'finishes'. Honestly, I prefer the protective qualities of a good 'finish' over cosmetic stain color matching, but other folks may feel differently. I've always been more about function-over-form (without a total disregard of appearance), so maybe I'm not the best person to ask.

Having said all that, I'm wondering if a Watco Danish Oil product with a particular stain/color, would help to even-out the original stain/color of the speaker cabinets being re-finished. IMO, it is a great product, but a user might need to carefully choose an appropriate stain color.

F1nut

I have to believe what they refer to as a Danish finish was nothing more than a stain.

I think 'finish' (in wood-working terms) is in reference to the final layer of a (supposedly) clear layer of protective coating.

That is the correct definition of a finish.

Anyway, to possibly solve the lighter colored areas obtain a wiping stain color that closely matches the original. Using a cotton cloth made into a small ball and slightly damp with stain lightly dab the lighter areas until the color evens out. Wait at least 24 hours before applying another coat of Watco. I have other tricks up my sleeve, but they involve stuff not easily obtained by the general public.

When using a product like Watco be sure to soak any used rags with water and set them outside flat on the ground to dry. There is the real possibility of spontaneous combustion otherwise.

jdjohn

My wife's grandfather was an expert wood-worker (we inherited his ShopSmith). He made this wooden clock, and my wife used some of the Watco Danish Oil to freshen it up.




Working from home since the pandemic started in 2020, I managed to rub the factory finish off our floor in a few places with my chair.




This is engineered flooring that clicks together, with an 1/8" layer of finished maple on top. I sanded around the edges of the worn spots, wiped it with a damp cloth (and used a tack rag) to remove the dust, and then applied a few coats of floor varnish. Those pics are after all the work, but it still looks terrible. Besides the worn spots, there's a hazy area where I sanded. I thought the varnish would have made those areas look a little better, but not so much. I guess I would need to strip the entire plank down to bare wood, and then apply several brand-new coats of varnish in order to get things evened out.

F1nut

Nice clock!

I don't do floors.

F1nut

I can say the clear coat on your floors is water based and likely conversion varnish, but possibly polyurethane. If you applied an oil based varnish that's no bueno. What I can't say is how to fix it if it's water poly and you'll never fix it if it's water conversion varnish.

Jstas

You can fix the floor it if it's water conversion varnish. But floors are way more forgiving than fixing a furniture finish. You can fix it, though. You just gotta sand it all out and feather in to the areas that have undamaged finish. Then you get to clean the area with a vacuum and then a tack cloth and reapply any stain to match. You'll probably want to do a tinted alcohol based stain so you can match it and it will be the least reactive with any finish material. Let any stain dry completely, though, because a wet stain spot will hamper the ability of the finish to bond to the floor properly. So stain it if necessary, let it dry and then multiple light coats of the varnish with fine sanding between coats across the entire spot and into the surrounding good varnish. Make sure you match your finish with the varnish (satin, semi-gloss, gloss, etc) and each coat covers the entire sanded area. On your last coat, you get to buff with a wool cloth or a microfiber cloth until your sheen matches the surrounding area and your repair disappears.

It is going to take days because each coat of varnish needs to be completely cured before you start sanding on it or you're just going smear it into sticky boogers that will require VERY aggressive sanding to get rid of.

Polyurethane is more forgiving to repair, whether it's oil or water based, than any kind of varnish. It's pretty much the same process, though.

If the floor is dented, before you go sanding you need to take a damp cloth and a clothes iron. Put the iron on the lowest steam setting at first and set the damp cloth on the dented spot and then press on it with the iron for a few seconds. Let it sit until the steam stops rolling off the cloth and then press on it again. If you didn't get any steam or enough heat, jack the setting up a notch and repeat. Also, don't let the cloth dry out. If it stops steaming when you press on it, go wet it down again before continuing. Let the steam stop rolling off the cloth and check the status of your dent. If it's pulling up and relaxing, keep going with the steam until the majority of the dent has extracted itself. Just watch the heat level on the iron 'cause you can cause more damage to the floor with the heat if you overheat the repair area. Then let the area cool down and dry before you start sanding in the process above.

I'm not talking out my aft regions here, either. I've done this process on a polyurethane floor fixing a spot where a recliner wore spots through the finish. I did this process on a shellac finished floor where an old coffee spill damaged a really old pine floor in a 200 year old house at my ex's grandma's house. I also did this on a varnished floor at my house where a heavy pot was dropped by the previous owner and dented the floor. He just put carpeting down over it. I found the damage when I pulled up the groady carpeting to get rid of it. You can't tell the floors were ever repaired.

Or, you can just throw a rug down over it!

jdjohn

Thanks for the insights, gents. Looks like I'd need to strip/sand/feather a large patch down to bare wood...and build-up from there. For now, at least, I have a fresh/new polyurethane protective coating on those trouble spots.

Also, I changed my 'office chair' to a proper one with casters, so that should help reduce wear. When this (pandemic/working from home) all started, I was just using one of the dining room chairs.

F1nut

Any updates on this?

jdjohn

Nothing new. I feel certain that the pre-finished wood planks have a conversion varnish, which won't feather-out very well, so I'd have to strip and sand the entire plank, then build it back up with polyurethane. For now, the coats of poly that I applied are protecting from further damage.

There's another, bigger, section of this flooring across the room that I'll have to address at some point. Years ago, I put an office chair mat on the floor to protect it, but it has actually done the opposite. Not being secure, the mat slides around in fractions of an inch, which has slowly created dozens of scuff marks on the planks under it. This flooring has a hand-hewn look, which means it's not entirely flat, so the raised places are more subject to scuffing.

F1nut

Ok, thanks for the update. There's a reason I don't do floors.