Largely Philosophical Article on CD vs. Streaming

jbreezy5

Ok, so it is actually a review of the Cambridge Audio CXC V2 Transport; however, that is actually less of the focus than the writer’s philosophy, imo.

https://twitteringmachines.com/review-cambridge-audio-cxc-the-sound-and-the-music/

treitz3

I was reading the article and when I came across this? I just stopped reading.

From the article wrote:

I spend the majority of my music listening time listening to digital music in file form, either served or streamed, and I have never stopped and thought — that doesn’t sound as good as I think it should. Ever. Not even once.

Tom

jbreezy5

Def think the writer narrowed-down where I’m at… intend to stream and spin discs, but will be keeping my vinyl collection minimal.

Need to simplify my life.

jbreezy5

treitz3 wrote: »

I was reading the article and when I came across this? I just stopped reading.

From the article wrote:

I spend the majority of my music listening time listening to digital music in file form, either served or streamed, and I have never stopped and thought — that doesn’t sound as good as I think it should. Ever. Not even once.

Tom

Contextually, I think his point was that he has learned to enjoy the music for the music’s sake regardless of the medium being used (i.e. vinyl, CD, streaming). He did say he uses all 3, and intends to continue to do so for different reasons.

Thought you would be the first in line for that kind of reasoning.

treitz3

"treitz3 wrote:

Eh, I am kind of of in a different camp. I have played more vinyl recently than I have in a VERY long time. Come to find out, my vinyl rig isn't so bad after all (although plenty of room for improvement). Once again, it all boils down to the recording. The NAP has a relaxed (like vinyl) sound that makes some harsh recordings sound listenable, vinyl offers you what digital can't but with added artifacts that are void in digital and my Marantz/digital rig would be/is my reference that will squeeze out every last detail there is to hear, without straining to hear them but can make some recordings, shall I say, "not desirable".

In other words, I enjoy each for what they have to offer. When I want to hear a particular recording? I can pick and choose which source I want, in order to extract the best amount of "aural pleasure" whilst listening.

This is an exact quote (not edited) that I shot out today in a private message. So, you are correct in that I am the first person to line up and agree.

What I can NOT agree with is what I quoted from the article. I can't see any context that would make that statement make any sense to me. I just can't trust anyone who would say such a statement (in any context) and in turn, myself taking it to heart or believing it. Others may disagree, you may as well but I lost all interest in reading any further when I read that statement.

And before anyone says it.....I know, I know. I need to work on my vinyl rig. Now that certain other areas of my rig are done? I can start working on that again. Close friends know that this is the plan. There was a time when vinyl was FAR superior to my digital in my rig, so I spent the better part of a decade improving the digital side, neglecting the vinyl aspect of it. The time has come once again to work on the vinyl rig's playback capabilities.

Tom

jbreezy5

Ok, kinda eerie about your PM, but glad I seem to be on the right page about how you would normally respond.

I think the key regarding the quote from the article you cited, is that it is not an isolated statement.

That statement was made in the context of him acknowledging that much of the time persons will favor sound from the CD format over streaming when compared A/B. He agreed with that conclusion concerning the same tracks played via his streaming set-up vs. the CXC transport.

The quote you cited came later when he was explaining his favorite virtue of streaming…new music discovery. When that is the goal a person isn’t necessarily being analytical, they’re enjoying fresh tunes.

I think that was his point; streaming is “close enough” (not A/B-ing) in quality to the other major formats to not have to pick nits.

VR3

I will say over the last 5 years that digital streaming can sound amazing. But it cost a lot to get there.

I will most likely never have physical media again for various reasons.

All forms definitely sound different either way

treitz3

jbreezy5 wrote: »

Ok, kinda eerie about your PM, but glad I seem to be on the right page about how you would normally respond.

Agreed on it being eerie....and yes, you were on the right page.

jbreezy5 wrote: »

I think the key regarding the quote from the article you cited, is that it is not an isolated statement.

That statement was made in the context of him acknowledging that much of the time persons will favor sound from the CD format over streaming when compared A/B. He agreed with that conclusion concerning the same tracks played via his streaming set-up vs. the CXC transport.

The quote you cited came later when he was explaining his favorite virtue of streaming…new music discovery. When that is the goal a person isn’t necessarily being analytical, they’re enjoying fresh tunes.

I think that was his point; streaming is “close enough” (not A/B-ing) in quality to the other major formats to not have to pick nits.

So, I went back and read the entire article again to capture the full context of what he was relaying. Most of what he states I can agree with. there are 2 major things I cannot. The first being "Who cares?".....well, I do. I have always said that the end result as to what hits these ears is the single most important thing to me. So, I care!

The second is that quote aforementioned. I mean, how in the H.E.Double hockey sticks can someone who reviews audio gear sit back and think....and I quote again...

From the article wrote:

I have never stopped and thought — that doesn’t sound as good as I think it should. Ever. Not even once.

Uh-huh. Not even once? Sorry but I ain't buyin' that load of hogwash. Whether it be in context or out of context, that's just plain ol' BS to me. Yes, I most definitely enjoy the music. I believe my recommendations that I have provided this forum with over the years should show that the music is just as important to me as the recording and that's just as important as the source, is just as important as the "experience" and toe tapping, goose bump getting feeling one can get whilst listening to the music.

BUT, (and their is a but). I have very rarely heard any recording or system at any given moment in time make me think that it doesn’t sound as good as I think it should. Maybe my standards are too high. Maybe I do think about, tear apart the gear/mix/quality/cues/accuracy/realism more than most but that does not mean that I simply am just wanting to extract the most out of a playback as I can and that I am not enjoying the music. If I wasn't enjoying the music, then why in the heck would I even BE in this hobby? I've been involved with music in one way or another since I was 8 years old.

What is written in bold above (regardless of my sheer enjoyment of the music itself) will not change with me. I don't think that it will change with you or even the author that wrote the original quote I referenced. We are ALL guilty of wanting more from our system and for someone to sit there and point blank tell you that they (not even once), even thought about the playback not sounding as good as it should?

Sorry man, but I just have to laugh at that.

I have spent the better part of the past 3 weeks listening for a MINIMUM of 3 hours a day. Every day. With some days, listening for 12 hours or more. One can't say that I don't enjoy the heck out of the music. I've got a system that does many things well beyond what I have heard elsewhere in my audio travels but that still hasn't stopped me from picking out even the subtlest of things within the playback that could stand to be more like live music/real sound. Hence, my signature. Oh, I have found excellence but even with that? Real sound is so far off the mark on certain things? There is no way that he hasn't once....not even once thought that his NAP could be improved.

I cannot agree to that or buy the rather fragrant BS with that one at all. Just can't do it, no matter the context.

Tom

BlueFox

One of these days I will have to try streaming, maybe in a few years after it settles down. I have ripped my CDs, and for the last 3-4 years I buy 2-3 albums a week from HD Tracks. Granted, some sound better than others, but they all sound great. At this point in life I am interested in listening to the music, not worrying if some other version might sound a bit better.

pitdogg2

BlueFox wrote: »

One of these days I will have to try streaming, maybe in a few years after it settles down. I have ripped my CDs, and for the last 3-4 years I buy 2-3 albums a week from HD Tracks. Granted, some sound better than others, but they all sound great. At this point in life I am interested in listening to the music, not worrying if some other version might sound a bit better.

HD tracks isn't streaming? I'm confused because it seems to me you've been "streaming" for the past 3-4yrs.

jbreezy5

Ok. I think I understand where you’re coming from. It seems we’re interpreting the author differently.

It seems like your taking the specific quote literally, and I’m reading it as hyperbole since he clearly does in fact make comparisons. That could be why we’re reacting differently. Perhaps your interpretation is right, in which case, I wouldn’t take the reviewer seriously either.

Honestly, I thought the article on the whole helped me as a reminder that sometimes I can over-analyze, and it was like he was telling me, “Relax, bro.”

Like the CXC Transport itself. I bought the darn thing, not because I need it, but because I’m so picky about mechanical noise. I’m currently using an older Sony DVD player that solved that issue, but now I’m being uptight about the power supply (i.e. electrical noise). It’s not as smooth/refined sounding as I would like.

And if I had a blind-fold on would I know the difference? Is the fact that I know there’s no toroidal transformer and multi-bank of capacitors in the Sony influencing my perception? Probably Lol

I do think it’s legit that finding a truly great affordable all-a-round disc spinner is more difficult than it used to be; but at some point I’m going to have to conclude that what I have does what I need it to.

Maybe that’s the greater discussion. Is a contented audiophile enjoying the music more than a discontented one? 🤷🏼

Or maybe it’s like Steve Carell said in The Big Short, “I am happy when I’m unhappy.”

Maybe discontented audiophiles experience more enjoyment, because they are always pursuing the last iota of awesome and reaching greater performance levels as a result. 🤷🏼

txcoastal1

I like both. I know when I like convenience, and I know as @Tonyb woud say...sound and music that will "blow your sack back" which in general is physical media

It's not like you carry your rig around 24/7 and can always critical listen.

treitz3

jbreezy5 wrote: »

Maybe that’s the greater discussion. Is a contented audiophile enjoying the music more than a discontented one? 🤷🏼

Or maybe it’s like Steve Carell said in The Big Short, “I am happy when I’m unhappy.”

Maybe discontented audiophiles experience more enjoyment, because they are always pursuing the last iota of awesome and reaching greater performance levels as a result. 🤷🏼

Now, this is a discussion I do not believe we have ever had before. In fact, I don't recall ever having a discussion about this very topic before. On any forum.

I will say this....you edited your post but I got a chuckle out of what question you had originally posted. "Is an audiophile ever content?". Haha....I think we ALL know the answer to that one. No debate or conversation even needed. LOL

How many times have we read on this and other forums, someone saying...and I quote, "I'm done"?

Tom

jbreezy5

Yes, that’s why I edited it; that would be rhetorical, and I wanted to promote discussion.

jbreezy5

Epically fast delivery from Music Direct!



Upon first listen. Reasonably quiet drawer mech; can’t hear disc spinning or gears grinding, proper power supply = sublime sonics.

Smooth, clean, refined sound akin to the Audiolab 6000CDT. In the flesh, superior finish aesthetically compared to the Audiolab; IMO. Doesn’t scratch discs like the Audiolab.

Downsides: no individual track selection (have to use arrows); doesn’t seem to read CDR, display could be brighter for better visibility (I adjusted it to brightest setting already).

I can live with the downsides (i.e. contented audiophile). 😎

Overall, for me, Cambridge Audio CXC V1 > Audiolab 6000CDT.

I may keep the Audiolab to create mix discs and play CDRs. I really like this player, but not damaged discs. No real discs will face the potential threat of the Audiolab again.

Suggestion to Audiolab; drawer-load or top-load next gen transport, if there is one.

heiney9

I have been trying to do less analyzing and critical listening every time I sit down to listen. I was becoming so analytical at times, I was missing the enjoyment of just listening to the music. However I would never say I didn't care or it didn't matter how it sounded. I still want to try and achieve the best sound possible, but I need to dial my analytical/critical side back a bit and find a happy medium.

I too am looking at simplifying everything. Seriously thinking of getting away from tubes. The constant rolling and chasing can be exhausting at times. I am always thinking new combo's of tubes might sound better, or "I should listen to this song with X tubes in". I have enjoyed the hunt and the rolling immensely for the past 15 years or so.

I am also looking at a hi rez streaming service to fill in for when I want to explore new music or listen to music I don't necessarily want to own. This would supplement my music collection.

I am working hard at retraining my self to be a little less critical/analytical when listening to either rig. Like I said, it had gotten to the point of interfering with the enjoyment of the actual music. I will never compromise my standards, but letting go just a bit and just letting the music flow..........that's the goal

H9

jbreezy5

Exactly. This should be fun.

If you get into streaming I like my Bluesound Node 2i recently purchased, and yes, I think it is slightly inferior sounding to my CXC transport and Jolida Tubedac III combo…

Can't expect it to perform at the level of Auralic/Lumin, etc., but I’m ok with that.

But it sounds sufficiently good to be pleasing. I would say it is not harsh sounding to my ears, but not the last word in transparency. To me that is compromise done right, as opposed to, the inverse.