RCMs

DaveHo

Looking to up my record cleaning game. Started with a spin clean, which I used to batch clean 600+ albums. Results were generally acceptable, but once I finished cleaning my existing collection, setting it up to do the here and there new acquisition was a pain. Next, I picked up a used Record Doctor V. I'd say the results are marginally better, but I find it clunky and the wobble while spinning it by hand is annoying. Frankly, the spin clean was faster on a per album basis. So, thought the logical next step was a VPI 16.5. Holy cow, new ones are $950! Weren't they $700 ish not that long ago? I think $700 is about the max I'm interested in spending. Ultrasonic is out because then I'm back to needing to do a bunch for it to be worth the hassle, and I have no intention of recleaning my entire collection. I know there are other less expensive options. Suggestions?

TroyD

Dave,

I paid 500 for my 16.5....but that was 2007....so there is that....

But, you can get into ultrasonic for about 250. The Vevor vats are all over eBay.....and they work really well. I used one of those with a 16.5 as a two step process with excellent, albeit labor intensive, results.

Oh, and once you discover what US cleaning is capable of, you will clean your entire collection.

maxward

PM sent.

PSOVLSK

I’m looking forward to the replies/suggestions as I almost started the same type of thread.
I’m weighing my options on my next upgrade and I’m thinking a new RCM should come before a new cart. I figure a new cart will still sound bad on records that need to be cleaned.
I saw the very cost effective US cleaners, but wasn’t sure about the quality. Seems as though they might be an option.

TroyD

I would make the argument that an ultrasonic cleaner will yield a greater improvement in sound than just about anything I can think of.

Again, I've been pretty meticulous over the years about cleaning and maintaining my records with the VPI 16.5......but the differences with an ultrasonic cleaner is astounding. Even with new vinyl.

The vat type cleaners with the rotisserie work great. They are a little bit of a hassle and time consuming but, especially when paired with a vacuum RCM the results are fantastic.

I have since moved to a Degritter. It's easier and quicker......I wouldn't say better but it is a LOT less time consuming.....but that convenience comes at a significant price.

I'm just going to say it again, if you aren't cleaning your vinyl with an ultrasonic cleaner, you don't know what you are missing.

That being said, it's not going to fix scratches and eliminate flaws in the vinyl......but you will be amazed at the increased level of resolution that you didn't even realize was there.

SCompRacer

I've been looking at this one on ebay, ~$215, can make offer, quantity discounts. From what I read, frequency is 40Khz. Amazon has it ~ $250 last I looked so ebay cheaper. The Degritter frequency is higher, 120Khz. Some folks have said the lower Khz takes longer but does similar cleaning job. I have the 16.5 so can vacuum after cleaning.

It has some decent reviews. One suggested the motor turned too quickly so he used a transformer to slow it down.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/273591962180

TroyD

That s the kit I purchased......

msg

I always wondered about the transducer frequency as well. It's one of those things people argue about and make cases for. One or more articles said the "wrong" frequency will damage your records. I don't remember which frequency was the right one in those articles.

SCompRacer wrote: »

I've been looking at this one on ebay, ~$215, can make offer, quantity discounts. From what I read, frequency is 40Khz. Amazon has it ~ $250 last I looked so ebay cheaper. The Degritter frequency is higher, 120Khz. Some folks have said the lower Khz takes longer but does similar cleaning job. I have the 16.5 so can vacuum after cleaning.

It has some decent reviews. One suggested the motor turned too quickly so he used a transformer to slow it down.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/273591962180

TroyD

Well, the stylus running through the groove generates tremendous psi and heat…..so I’m not convinced that ultrasonic cleaning at any frequency is that traumatic…..

F1nut

I like my Okki Nokki. No experience with ultrasonic.

TroyD

It’s a game changer.....tell you what, send me some records, I’ll clean them and send them back.....

msg

Send them to me first, and I'll rub them down with a Snickers for good measure before sending them on to Troy.

Nightfall

Send them to Amber Heard first for her to 💩 on

TroyD

Tough crowd.

Amber Heard....man, I can’t remember what movie it was, but there were heat rays coming off that babe. She could do with me as she pleased.

pitdogg2

Dingus

SCompRacer

Troy, what record cleaning solution are you using in your ultrasonic? Distilled, deionized water, etc?

muncybob

SCompRacer wrote: »

I've been looking at this one on ebay, ~$215, can make offer, quantity discounts. From what I read, frequency is 40Khz. Amazon has it ~ $250 last I looked so ebay cheaper. The Degritter frequency is higher, 120Khz. Some folks have said the lower Khz takes longer but does similar cleaning job. I have the 16.5 so can vacuum after cleaning.

It has some decent reviews. One suggested the motor turned too quickly so he used a transformer to slow it down.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/273591962180

That's a decent price for what you get. I think I paid more for just the cleaner itself. Mine is a cheapo Chinese unit but has held up for over 2 years now and some 500+ cleanings. I've read that you need nore space between the records than what appears in that photo. I now clean only 1 at a time and it works great.

SCompRacer

muncybob wrote: »

That's a decent price for what you get. I think I paid more for just the cleaner itself. Mine is a cheapo Chinese unit but has held up for over 2 years now and some 500+ cleanings. I've read that you need nore space between the records than what appears in that photo. I now clean only 1 at a time and it works great.

Well then, it's on the way....I passed on the Ultrasonic motor/hardware kit Larry had offered, IIRC, a few years back. I'm in the learning curve, interesting about the spacing. I'm retired now so no excuses, lots of time on my hands now...lol

What are you using for cleaning solution?

TroyD

I used tergikleen….10 drops per gallon in purified water…..

I get the whole spacing thing in theory but I did 8 at a time and thought it did a great job…..

DaveHo

Thanks all! Looks like I've got a lead on a 16.5 for a reasonable price. Might still give US a try.

PSOVLSK

I seem to remember Ryan @ZLTFUL discussing an ultrasonic RCM quite a while back, but I’ve searched and can’t find anything. Maybe he’ll chime in…though it may be to tell me I’m mistaken😬

BlueBirdMusic

TroyD wrote: »

I would make the argument that an ultrasonic cleaner will yield a greater improvement in sound than just about anything I can think of.

Again, I've been pretty meticulous over the years about cleaning and maintaining my records with the VPI 16.5......but the differences with an ultrasonic cleaner is astounding. Even with new vinyl.

The vat type cleaners with the rotisserie work great. They are a little bit of a hassle and time consuming but, especially when paired with a vacuum RCM the results are fantastic.

I have since moved to a Degritter. It's easier and quicker......I wouldn't say better but it is a LOT less time consuming.....but that convenience comes at a significant price.

I'm just going to say it again, if you aren't cleaning your vinyl with an ultrasonic cleaner, you don't know what you are missing.

That being said, it's not going to fix scratches and eliminate flaws in the vinyl......but you will be amazed at the increased level of resolution that you didn't even realize was there.

Troy, I saw in one of your posts where you had moved on to another cleaner from the one on eBay. I never saw which one you got. I just remember you said an expensive one. I put the cleaner on eBay on my watch list but I have taken no action. I like all I have read about the Degritter.

I saw this Kirmuss model on US Audio Mart a few days ago. I read a favorable review of it several weeks ago. Seems to be a reasonable offer at $799 for anyone interested. I believe Upscale Audio sells it in the US.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649853384-kirmuss-audio-ka-rc1-new-never-opened-sold-my-table-not-needed/?utm_source=featured_ad&utm_medium=web&utm_content=front&utm_campaign=front-featured-ad-click&utm_term=649853384

muncybob

I also use Tergitol in distilled water along with a "pinch" of a quate which helps to control static noise. Water is changed depending on the condition of the records( I buy used records a lot). The cleaner is preceded by a quick rinse with the sink sprayer and following the cleaning I use a pressurized sprayer for a distilled water rinse. After the record dries(I use the spindle that rotates the record in a high speed drill to shorten the drying time) the record then is placed into a MoFi sleeve. It's a lot of work but each record is done once and won't be cleaned again for a long time.

To my amazement, my wife (who plays little attention to audio quality) noticed an improvement to the sound of records she's familiar with.

TroyD

I was hoping that someone with a humminguru would chime in.....I was intrigued to say the least.....however, there is some chatter about if it is actually ultrasonic and it's ultimate efficacy.

I'm not taking an opinion on that as the overwhelming majority of feedback on it is very positive.

I opted for the Degritter......one, I had a little extra disposable income.....originally I opted for a used Audio Desk Systeme Pro but it arrived DOA and after some research, the pump failure rate on them (out of warranty) is really high. So the seller took it back and I just went with a new Degritter, and I love it. I've cleaned MOST of my collection of records that I actually listen to on the Chineseum vat/VPI 16.5 setup and about all of the scuzzy used ones that I never got around to cleaning. I'm now down to the outliers and the records I'm playing, I give them a short cycle on the Degritter.

My advice is this:

If you have a large collection of largely uncleaned records.....the vat is the way to go as you can do a bunch at a time. It's a time consuming but worthwhile process.

The Degritter....or the Humminguru....is pretty ideal for a smaller or already pretty clean collection.

No opinion on the Kirsmmuss.....from what I've gleaned, the guy is a wack job and the process he espouses is WAY too complicated.

F1nut

No opinion on the Kirsmmuss.....from what I've gleaned, the guy is a wack job and the process he espouses is WAY too complicated.

Having met and seen him in action...slimy used car salesman selling an equally slimy product. It was all I could do not to laugh out loud.

SCompRacer

Appreciate the input! I have been using Tergitol for several years with good results.

I have a 1K plus collection. All have been through the VPI 16.5. I do have some records that have issues. Anxious to hear if the ultrasonic helps/fixes them.

TroyD

Even the records that you *think* are clean....you'll be surprised after cleaning them with an ultrasonic cleaner...and, like you, I've had a VPI 16.5 for 15 years.


I gotta be honest, I was sorta skeptical but I'm officially a true believer.

PSOVLSK

The Humminguru may very well be my next vinyl related purchase. I think clean records would improve my listening experience more than a new/better cartridge.

Joey_V

HG has had some lukewarm reviews, regarding cleaning ability, etc

I have the degritter and while it’s good, I’m still looking to complete my cleaning station with a vacuum cleaner. Not sure if I would start w the vacuum or end with it, degritter pre or post.

Best probably is HG first to rinse. Then vacuum. Then degritter as final.

TroyD

Joey, I have the Degritter as well......as far as a vacuum machine....unless you are dealing with some garage sale records that need a good scrub first, I'm not sold on the need for a vacuum machine. IMO, if you are wanting to add a rinse cycle, I would just get a second fluid tank for the degritter and a clean cycle, switch tanks with distilled water and run through a short cycle........just my .02

SCompRacer

I purchased this one from ebay. It's a 40kHz transducer. https://www.ebay.com/itm/273591962180

The bracket and motor housing are aluminum, good and sturdy. The plastic spacers had some burrs which prevented them from sliding on the shaft easily. I used a drill bit spun by hand to clean the holes out. The motor attaches to bracket with thumb screw and nut. The spindle extension attached to the motor shaft can rub the bracket so you just have to turn the motor housing to center it then tighten up the thumb screw.

I have a Broken Bells self titled debut album that had a loud pop about 50 seconds in the first track. I had scrubbed it on a VPI 16.5, used all the VPI cleaning solutions and Tergitol mix to no avail. Ten minutes in the ultrasonic, Tergitol/distilled solution, distilled rinse and vacuum on the 16.5 and no pops/ticks. I don't hear any change in sound quality but I am told it can vary depending on LP.

Count me as sold on the benefits of ultrasonic record cleaning.