Wires do matter

rebelsoul
rebelsoul Posts: 756
in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
I have a pair of audioquest speaker wires I was not using because the banana posts were real loose. So I was using a 12 gauge wire spiral in plastic coating. I ordered new banana clips and modded the audioquest with new banana clips. Unhooked 12 gauge wire and was amazed at all the oxidation on them . They worked ,but just hooked up the audioquest and wow I could notice a big difference. Really opend the sound hshqjytqnhpw.jpg
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,020
    Nope. Cables don't make a difference at all.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,987
    edited April 2022
    Well they matter as w/out them in most cases we couldn’t enjoy our toys😂
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,459
    One of my audio buddies brought this thing over and we powered my amp through it. Wow what a difference! Took away all sorts of harshness and music was more smooth and mellow. Not a subtle difference at all.

    ly1fckydot5k.png
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,020
    @rebelsoul - Sorry man, didn't mean to kill your thread. I was being a smart alleck when I stated that cables don't make a difference. They can actually make or break a systems palpability, sence of air, frequencies, harshness, overponderance, imaging and spatial locationality cues and a slew of other things that can greatly impact the reproductive playback effort.

    Usually, the first things that people notice is a clearer or more present top end and cleaner (or more) lower registers. All of this is (of course) dependent on each system and while some cables sound great on one rig? That doesn't necessarily mean that they will sound great on someone else's system.

    It sounds like you are observing some rather pleasing synergy with these cables and your rig. Congrat's on that. Everything affects everything and sometimes it can be just a little tweak like this that can make a system shine!

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,132
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    One of my audio buddies brought this thing over and we powered my amp through it. Wow what a difference! Took away all sorts of harshness and music was more smooth and mellow. Not a subtle difference at all.

    ly1fckydot5k.png

    Hmmmm; a dc blocker? Dusting off the memory circuits from an electronics class many moons ago I seem to remember capacitors allow ac to pass but block dc current. So in that case wouldn't a quality power conditioner with filter capacitors block dc from getting to the sources and the amp's filter capacitors block dc from getting to the speakers? I'm not doubting your claims; just thinking out loud here.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,785
    motorstereo wrote: »
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    One of my audio buddies brought this thing over and we powered my amp through it. Wow what a difference! Took away all sorts of harshness and music was more smooth and mellow. Not a subtle difference at all.

    ly1fckydot5k.png

    Hmmmm; a dc blocker? Dusting off the memory circuits from an electronics class many moons ago I seem to remember capacitors allow ac to pass but block dc current. So in that case wouldn't a quality power conditioner with filter capacitors block dc from getting to the sources and the amp's filter capacitors block dc from getting to the speakers? I'm not doubting your claims; just thinking out loud here.

    Transformers (e.g., the power transformer in an audio component) won't pass DC either.
    One could argue that any DC riding on the AC mains voltage (if, indeed there is any) would tend to saturate a transformer, in essence turning the primary into an electromagnet as well as an inductive element.

    I think it would be really interesting to see if there actually was any DC riding on the AC mains in @Gardenstater's case. It's easy to do, of course, although one needs to be comfortable testing relatively high voltage AC (since a mis-step could be lethal).

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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,459
    edited April 2022
    They claim more than DC offset correction caused by assymetrical loads and it is a bit of a power conditioner as well. But I'm not making any claims other than it made a huge difference in my system, and in order to use it we had to use a generic NEMA female to IEC male adapter and we also had to use one of my friend's DIY high end power cords between this unit and the wall outlet, both of which entailed 3 extra contact connections.

    https://www.audiolab.co.uk/dc-block/

    I wish I had an oscilliscope and then we could have looked at the signal in and compared it with the signal out. I have not found any technical testing reviews of this unit online yet. I'm not holding my breath though :)

    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,132
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I think it would be really interesting to see if there actually was any DC riding on the AC mains in @Gardenstater's case. It's easy to do, of course, although one needs to be comfortable testing relatively high voltage AC (since a mis-step could be lethal).

    Couldn't this be done with the probes of a multimeter and set to reading dc?

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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,459
    edited April 2022
    motorstereo wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I think it would be really interesting to see if there actually was any DC riding on the AC mains in @Gardenstater's case. It's easy to do, of course, although one needs to be comfortable testing relatively high voltage AC (since a mis-step could be lethal).

    Couldn't this be done with the probes of a multimeter and set to reading dc?

    I just checked the outlet in question and got 244mV on DC setting. So there you go. The manufacturer claims that less than 500mV is common and even that can be a problem for toroidal transformers. I don't think my Crown D150 has a toroidal however......

    But they also say: "it also contains a high-performance audio class filtering circuit that removes RFI/EMI contaminants from the mains supply. This is effective in reducing both differential-mode noise (exacerbated by cheap switch-mode power supplies used by many home appliances) and common-mode noise (aggravated by airborne interference from phones, Wi-Fi networks, and Bluetooth)."
    Post edited by Gardenstater on
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,132
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    [quote="
    I just checked the outlet in question and got 244mV on DC setting. So there you go. The manufacturer claims anything 150mV or greater can be a problem for toroidal transformers. I don't think my Crown D150 has a torroidal however......

    Ok with that in mind I had to check my line and it seems to hovering around 80-100mv. The back of my Furman pc which has a couple of large caps it reads 0.00. So just for the heck of it I checked the back of my belkin pc and that unit must not have any caps in it as it reads about 100mv which is the same as the line going in.
    This was a fun little experiment for a rainy day here in the northeast.

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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,229
    qe2mdqf9ar7o.png
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,785
    motorstereo wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I think it would be really interesting to see if there actually was any DC riding on the AC mains in @Gardenstater's case. It's easy to do, of course, although one needs to be comfortable testing relatively high voltage AC (since a mis-step could be lethal).

    Couldn't this be done with the probes of a multimeter and set to reading dc?

    yep.
    carefully. :)
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,459
    edited April 2022
    Oh.......so I guess I shouldn't have used a nail in each hand and a light bulb in my mouth....... :)

    vo7rwpl7ll0d.jpg
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,785
    edited April 2022
    I knew a TV repair guy in the early '70s who used to like to grab the HV anode lead of a color TV (25 kV high frequency pulsed DC, albeit at low current*) and a 40 watt fluorescent tube in the other. The RF from the TV's HV circuit would light the fluorescent tube -- the Tesla method of OTA power transmission. :)


    ____________
    * Remember, boys and girls: It's the volts that jolt, but the mills [milliamperes] that kill! :#

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