Further....perhaps final.....thoughts on the L800
TroyD
Posts: 13,077
Ok, I typed this darn thing once and lost it so I'm a little PEEVED.
So, anyway, I've had these playing pretty much non stop for the last 2.5 weeks....what that equates to in hours I dunno and frankly don't care. I haven't heard any appreciable difference in sound for the last week or so.....so here goes.
So, bottom line. These are the best speakers Polk has ever made. Hands down. Bar none. Better than the modded SDA's. Better than the LSiM's.....you name it. Top to bottom coherence that Polk has previously never been capable of. Uncolored. Bass? I gotta say, I'd be hard pressed to think of a speaker that has had this level of bass output, detail and musicality. Really. I can't think of one......and not at the expense of overpowering the midrange. Phenomenal achievement. The SDA imaging that we know and love comes with an extra helping of 3 dimensionality and detail that previous SDA's.....modded or not...have not been capable of.
Now, F1Nut and folks who are enamored of the previous generation of SDA's....they are different animals. Not better or worse per se but different. I know F1Nut and his listening preferences well enough to know that these will not be his particular cup of tea with moldy cheese (and you can't put a plant in front of them)....so, comparing these to the previous SDA's is not an apples/apples comparison and isn't worth doing.
Listen to Sara K's Waterfalls, The Eagles When Hell Freezes Over and Santana's Abraxas and you will hear everything that these are capable of and you will be screaming SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!
However.....there are some caveats. Andrew Robinson touched on some of them and while I think he was FOS on most of it...some of it, he's got a valid point.
These speakers are very unforgiving of:
1. Bad recordings. Great music / low-fi recordings and streaming...BLECH. Bruce Springsteen Born to Run. Boston self titled. Pretty much ANY Columbia classical recording (Mahler's 2nd by Bruno Walter comes to mind. UNLISTENABLE. I have a lot of music that I like that isn't recorded well....The Pretenders come to mind also....that are not pleasant to listen to through the L800's
2. Bad gear. Or the right gear. I had a longer preamp umbilical cord for practical reasons...so I had the Adcom/Sunfire hooked up for a minute. A MINUTE. That combination sounded like pickled a$$. Zero soundstage depth. Lifeless and uninspired. So, yes, the gear makes a difference
3. Sound levels. These are TERRIBLE at low volume. Now, in my situation, this really isn't a big deal. If TLW demands quiet, I can go listen to the Carver Amazings. No big deal....and the living room is big enough so the volume is usually sufficient to not be a big deal .....but at low volumes, everything COLLAPSES.
Now, this may sound like a litany of complaints.....but at this level of fidelity, and I would argue that the L800's compete well at the 10K-15K level, I think loudspeakers are, by design, idiosyncratic. So, some of this really is, IMO, the nature of the beast.
So, will the L800's be a long term resident at the Rancho de No Concerno? Probably. They aren't my "end all/be all" speaker.....that will probably be a planar design. If I could step into a Magnepan 20-series, that's where I see my destination being...but until that time, I think they will do!
So, anyway, I've had these playing pretty much non stop for the last 2.5 weeks....what that equates to in hours I dunno and frankly don't care. I haven't heard any appreciable difference in sound for the last week or so.....so here goes.
So, bottom line. These are the best speakers Polk has ever made. Hands down. Bar none. Better than the modded SDA's. Better than the LSiM's.....you name it. Top to bottom coherence that Polk has previously never been capable of. Uncolored. Bass? I gotta say, I'd be hard pressed to think of a speaker that has had this level of bass output, detail and musicality. Really. I can't think of one......and not at the expense of overpowering the midrange. Phenomenal achievement. The SDA imaging that we know and love comes with an extra helping of 3 dimensionality and detail that previous SDA's.....modded or not...have not been capable of.
Now, F1Nut and folks who are enamored of the previous generation of SDA's....they are different animals. Not better or worse per se but different. I know F1Nut and his listening preferences well enough to know that these will not be his particular cup of tea with moldy cheese (and you can't put a plant in front of them)....so, comparing these to the previous SDA's is not an apples/apples comparison and isn't worth doing.
Listen to Sara K's Waterfalls, The Eagles When Hell Freezes Over and Santana's Abraxas and you will hear everything that these are capable of and you will be screaming SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!
However.....there are some caveats. Andrew Robinson touched on some of them and while I think he was FOS on most of it...some of it, he's got a valid point.
These speakers are very unforgiving of:
1. Bad recordings. Great music / low-fi recordings and streaming...BLECH. Bruce Springsteen Born to Run. Boston self titled. Pretty much ANY Columbia classical recording (Mahler's 2nd by Bruno Walter comes to mind. UNLISTENABLE. I have a lot of music that I like that isn't recorded well....The Pretenders come to mind also....that are not pleasant to listen to through the L800's
2. Bad gear. Or the right gear. I had a longer preamp umbilical cord for practical reasons...so I had the Adcom/Sunfire hooked up for a minute. A MINUTE. That combination sounded like pickled a$$. Zero soundstage depth. Lifeless and uninspired. So, yes, the gear makes a difference
3. Sound levels. These are TERRIBLE at low volume. Now, in my situation, this really isn't a big deal. If TLW demands quiet, I can go listen to the Carver Amazings. No big deal....and the living room is big enough so the volume is usually sufficient to not be a big deal .....but at low volumes, everything COLLAPSES.
Now, this may sound like a litany of complaints.....but at this level of fidelity, and I would argue that the L800's compete well at the 10K-15K level, I think loudspeakers are, by design, idiosyncratic. So, some of this really is, IMO, the nature of the beast.
So, will the L800's be a long term resident at the Rancho de No Concerno? Probably. They aren't my "end all/be all" speaker.....that will probably be a planar design. If I could step into a Magnepan 20-series, that's where I see my destination being...but until that time, I think they will do!
I plan for the future. - F1Nut
Comments
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Who is Andrew Robinson?
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Also who is F1Nut?
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Who am I? Why am I here?
ahem.
@TroyD Potent review, there.
What are you using for amplification with them?
(I should probably know... but I don't)
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Doc,
I am using a Musical Fidelity Tri Vista integratedI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Troy, do you use an SPL meter for general reference? What would you consider lower listening levels?
Is it the sound in general, or just the lows you find lacking at lower volume?
My typical listening level is mid to upper 70s with Peaks into the upper 80s.
Thinking about seeing if I can integrate a sub now after having had them running solo for a few months. Just to see how that goes. It would be a MartinLogan Depth-i.I disabled signatures. -
I don’t have anything bad to say about low volume performance. In my space they do quite well.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
You have a way with words Troy!
Pickled **** should be a staple comparison in any review!
Glad you are digging the l800!- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
No, I don’t use an SPL.....and really, this is not a knock as I think most speakers have that threshold where things start to collapse. I just think that threshold is a little higher for the L800’s
My only real complaint is the total unwillingness to lend a hand to lesser recordings.....
And reading over my thoughts, I think perhaps my opinions of midrange reticence is probably because the Bozaks were downright lush in the mids...I plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Sara K's Waterfalls >>> Sweet music; never listened to her previously."Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"Anger is just anger. It isn’t good. It isn’t bad. It just is. What you do with it is what matters.
You can use it to build or to destroy. You just have to make the choice. Jim Butcher
Harry / Marietta GA -
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I'm holding out for final-final thoughts.I disabled signatures.
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L800's - Final Answer
So, pretty much my thoughts above are unchanged.
To repeat: Best speaker Polk Audio has ever produced. Hands down. I think if you are looking for a dynamic speaker under 20K.....I think the L800 deserves to be on your short list to audition with the the above mentioned caveats.
Is it going to be a long term solution for me.....the jury is still out on that one.
At the end of the day, I'm a planar/ribbon guy. Quads/Carver/Magnepan have been my primary listening speakers for the better part of a couple decades. Eventually, the L800's will more than likely move aside for a pair of big Magnepans. The 1.6's are great but they don't move QUITE enough air for the living room. 3.7's would be ideal IMO (20.7 if I win the lottery...) so that's probably the next stop.
I plan for the future. - F1Nut -
The modules L900's I believe that you can put in the top are for surround sound only correct? Same thing as having a height speaker right? I am sure I just could go to the top of the page where it says products and find my answer but I am on lunch, so screw that.. LOL!!
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The modules L900's I believe that you can put in the top are for surround sound only correct? Same thing as having a height speaker right? I am sure I just could go to the top of the page where it says products and find my answer but I am on lunch, so screw that.. LOL!!
Yes, Dolby atmos height modules. In ceiling speakers are ideal, but these are probably a decent substituteLiving Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
The L900s work pretty well as front height effects speakers for rooms where the sound can bounce off the ceiling and impact the listening area. They're not as ideal as height speakers that would be in ceiling. Those are more enveloping. The L900s to me are for those who don't want to spend the money to run wires and cut into the ceiling to get in ceiling speakers or for those where in ceiling speakers are not an option.
I now have access to three Atmos setups and none of them have in-ceiling speakers. Two have Atmos speakers built into the tops of the front main speakers and one has separate modules. They all work well but the external modules work best among the three systems. -
The modules L900's I believe that you can put in the top are for surround sound only correct? Same thing as having a height speaker right? I am sure I just could go to the top of the page where it says products and find my answer but I am on lunch, so screw that.. LOL!!
Yes, Dolby atmos height modules. In ceiling speakers are ideal, but these are probably a decent substitute
I have had good luck with my 900's installed in my L600, but I also a gambrel ceiling directly above them.2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
I’d be lying if I said I knew anything about what atmos is or does.....I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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It makes you feel like you're up in the atmosphere- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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It makes you feel like you're up in the atmosphere
You mean kind of like the contact high you get from hanging out with Bud?The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »
Totally man......- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Dude...
what was this thread about?
Got any Doritos?
Or is it Doritoes?
whoa...
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Look at the birds up in the trees....
I plan for the future. - F1Nut -
IN THE TREE'S.........NO WAY MAN!
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So to get a little bit back on track. I am seriously considering the L800's in my long term plan. I didn't follow the initial posts when they were first released.
Did we ever get the single ended/non-common ground issue sorted out. I did read that you can run a non-common ground amp but the SDA properties are diminished. That's a huge problem for me and the Pass gear I want to run with them.
Plus they are really deep speakers and I'm not sure I have the front to back real estate w/o it looking a bit odd. It's my understanding they don't have to be as far out from the wall as my SDA 1'C's.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Not compatible and I'm in the same boat. My PS Audio BHK stack/DirectStream DAC combo is fully balanced from top to bottom. Big disappointment not being able to run my TOTL gear, however, I knew this when I purchased the 800's. Right now, the 800's are in my living room running HT duty w/the modded Parasound HCA-1500A and BDP-105 combo. Best speakers I've had in that room but I know I truly haven't heard all they are capable of. I have other end game speakers (Genesis Gen II's) in play for later down the road but I'm not sorry I picked the 800's up.Did we ever get the single ended/non-common ground issue sorted out. I did read that you can run a non-common ground amp but the SDA properties are diminished. That's a huge problem for me and the Pass gear I want to run with them.
One thing I've considered, and not done other than just taking the time, is hitting up Scott Orth and seeing if there is a solution he might have insight into like the the original Dreadnaught. Not asking Polk to build it, I think the DIY crowd here could w/the right help, but wouldn't hesitate to purchase one if Polk offered it.
Perhaps, now is the time?➀Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) ➁Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream ➂Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" ➃Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant ➄Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends ➅Streaming: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC, TP-Link WAP, & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS, PS Audio AirLens⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬ -
I run my L800 on mono amps with zero difficulty. It is differential amps that are a problem with the new SDA...
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
