Has my hearing mellowed, or have my SL2000 tweeters mellowed?

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Mike Brantley
Mike Brantley Posts: 15
in Vintage Speakers
In other words, is the SL2000 the tweeter for old people? Heh.

I am listening to my pair of vintage Monitor 5 speakers that I never got around to putting RDO194 tweeters in, and honestly I am not finding the SL2000 tweeters to be harsh anymore. I suspect I have lost some upper frequency hearing, and is it possible that the well-known SL2000 spike is just what I need? Anyway, I have a number of Polk speakers from the 1980s here and replaced the SL2000 tweeters in some of them several years ago. But for this Monitor 5 pair now in my home office, I think I will leave them be and enjoy them as they are.
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,209
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    You could run some whitenoise through your system and check the frequency response at your listening position for smoothness, especially in the tweeter ranges. Don't have to get super fancy. I just use Advanced Spectrum Analyzer Pro app on my Android phone with the averaging set to maximum setting.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,497
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    Great tweeter. Some love em & some hate em. I remember the sl2000. When the UPS truck showed up I crawled to the truck with my eyelids
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    Randy/Maine
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,747
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    Might want to visit an ENT and have an ear wax removal procedure.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,497
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    I think the older I get I'm less critical with my listening. But if I do a A&B comparison on a tweeter I can still tell the difference. I never went to far up the ladder on high end gear as I have other hobby's. The sl2000 tweeter is in many living rooms & enjoyed still
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    Randy/Maine
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,396
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    If there was a 5dB boost with the SL2000 tweeter in the Monitor 5 model with the commonly touted boost around 12 to 13 kHz and hearing loss made it more tolerable than it was it would be because that frequency range is no longer being heard. That's not a good thing! That would mean a complete absence of sound at that frequency not a diminishment of the volume level. A hearing test may be a good idea.
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  • Mike Brantley
    Mike Brantley Posts: 15
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    Well, I am about to be 57 years old so this is probably to be expected. I just watched this video with tones and am completely unable to hear the 12kHz and above tones. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxcbppCX6Rk
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,396
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    I think the SL2000 tweeter may now qualify as a medical testing device.

    :)
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,497
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    Interesting. I heard everything & I'm older than you. I don't listen to music loud & the 8000hz didn't agree with my ears
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    Randy/Maine
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  • Mike Brantley
    Mike Brantley Posts: 15
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    boston1450, yeah that is interesting. I will try this on better speakers later and also get my 18-year-old son to listen as well. But it has been several years since he and his friends adopted cell phone ringtones that their parents could not hear.
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  • Mike Brantley
    Mike Brantley Posts: 15
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    Here's another one, and I am using Yamaha MSP5 studio monitor speakers with my computer. This one has an onscreen counter that corresponds to your supposed age that gets progressively higher in count as the frequency becomes lower. Interestingly, it's at exactly "age 57" when I can hear anything at all. So that would seem accurate, on average. I'm neither ahead nor behind the curve.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN3PBpInNJM

    Oh well. I got to hear how much better my upgraded tweeters were for a few years. :)

    There are certain passages of music that I have listened to quite a bit through my life, and I've pretty much been listening to Polk speakers from the 1980s since the 1980s were current times. The James Horner "Star Trek II" soundtrack for example, first on LP and later on CD. I *distinctly* remember hearing higher pitches near the start of the main titles using my Polk 5jr+ speakers back in the 1980s when I was in my 20s. I have not heard that sound in quite some time. Kind of sad to think about, but what can you do?
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,497
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    Others will chime in. That's not unusual with hearing. Something worth checking on.... It may be I'm on cell phone. Opps. No wonder I have very young hearing. I can usually hear a ant **** tho...
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    Randy/Maine
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,209
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    It's a shame that in the first video he skips from 12k to 15k. I had no trouble at all hearing the 12 but 15 was sketchy. In the 2nd video I came out about 10 yrs under my age so I'll take it I guess. What choice do I have lol.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,880
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    A little reality check as it relates to music. There isn't much above 12kHz to hear and what there is are harmonics.
    h4uqeclcngj6.jpg
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,880
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    The SL2000 has a documented 5dB spike in the 12 to 13kHz range and given the fact there's not much music to even hear up there is it the spike that makes the SL2000 an ear bleeder or is it simply a case of an overall bad tweeter?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,209
    edited January 2022
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    Harmonics are significant to music. Harmonics of cymbals and violins goes up to around 16kHz. I guess I'm missing some of that, or I should say apparently I am. 2 different instruments can play the same note and sound completely different. When comparing different tweeters it is apparent which one has the rolloff starting around 15k or so when you play something like wind chimes music, because of the abundance of harmonic content, or at least it used to be apparent :# .
    Post edited by Gardenstater on
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,747
    edited January 2022
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    Another class intro. to Reality Check 101, brought to you by tenured professor, F1.
    F1nut wrote: »
    The SL2000 has a documented 5dB spike in the 12 to 13kHz range and given the fact there's not much music to even hear up there is it the spike that makes the SL2000 an ear bleeder or is it simply a case of an overall bad tweeter?

    Have to echo this sentiment. The SL2k's are akin to The Dixie Chicks. It's not just one bad song, they're all bad.

    Post edited by xschop on
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
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    F1nut wrote: »
    A little reality check as it relates to music. There isn't much above 12kHz to hear and what there is are harmonics.
    h4uqeclcngj6.jpg

    What do the colors (red, yellow, black) represent?
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,209
    edited January 2022
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    I posted that chart a long time ago here and it was an interactive version, but it also had the legend. I'll see if I can find it again. It is the best chart I've seen. I'm pretty sure the yellow is harmonics. Red is definitely fundamental notes. The black might be overtones and undertones or something.

    Here it is: https://alexiy.nl/eq/

    toqw8s9iwzys.jpg
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,652
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    BlueFox wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    A little reality check as it relates to music. There isn't much above 12kHz to hear and what there is are harmonics.
    h4uqeclcngj6.jpg

    What do the colors (red, yellow, black) represent?

    Vision
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
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    Gardenstater wrote: »
    I posted that chart a long time ago here and it was an interactive version, but it also had the legend. I'll see if I can find it again. It is the best chart I've seen. I'm pretty sure the yellow is harmonics. Red is definitely fundamental notes. The black might be overtones and undertones or something.

    Here it is: https://alexiy.nl/eq/

    Thanks.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,343
    edited January 2022
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    I agree about the harmonics being necessary. This is something that I have pondered since the sounds of instruments are very complex waveforms and not simple sine waves. Harmonics become vital in those complexities. Consider a square wave. It is made of a fundamental frequency and an infinite number of odd harmonics. Filter the harmonics and it is no linger a square wave. This is why having a speaker that can produce frequencies well above hearing range isn't so foolish a thing. However, if those harmonics are passed through a tweeter that has a +5dB hump between 12KHz and 13KHz then harmonics in this region will be amplified and it will distort from the original sound of the instruments.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
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    HT:
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    Other stuff:
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,460
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    My left ear is 46 and my right is 67 which is typical because I'm right handed and put my phone up to my right ear. I have tinnitus in my left ear though so I'm screwed.
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    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,880
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    Of course, harmonics are important, but most are under 12kHz.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Hansvelton
    Hansvelton Posts: 151
    edited January 2022
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    Yeh but what condition are the caps in this speaker?

    Old crappy caps could easily account for the tweeter sounding more mellow over the years.

    Had an old pair of the tall Rta11t towers, with the SL2000 and I found the highs to sound very mellow and not very clear.


    A few new caps, brought out the clarity and the treble Peak mentioned above.

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,880
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    Good point
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • StantonZ
    StantonZ Posts: 440
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    Assuming the parts have "aged out"...it's probably your hearing (it happens to the best of us). I'm glad I did the RD0-194 swap out a few years ago, but my hearing has taken a dive in the last couple of years.
    Yamaha RX-A2050 AVR (5.0.2); LG OLED77C2 4K TV
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
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    I'm with F1 on this.....now, HE has the hearing of a fruit bat....but the rest of us, I don't hear much past a certain point (and if you listen to vinyl, particularly OLD vinyl, there ain't much past 8Khz) so I don't think the issue with the SL2000 is the 5db spike. I think it was just a less than optimal tweeter en toto....
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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