Looking for a RT3000p Unit

rtart

I have a CS1000p but want to try a RT3000p as a center speaker, to match my fronts. I have an acoustically transparent screen, so its not visible. Curious to hear if there is any difference between the two - point source and/or lobing. I'm near Atlanta.

I'd like a sub and sat unit, but might consider just the sats. Only need one, but would take two and have a spare. Color doesn't matter...I have rosewood, but this one will be behind the screen.

WLDock

The RT5000, RT3000 don't show up nearly as much these days. You might have a better chance finding a set of RT55's and making a DIY dual 8" bass cabinet.

I've said it here many times that I liked the LSiM706c center from top to bottom over the CS1000p.

When I sold the RT5000 and purchased the LSiM703's and LSiM706c, the idea popped in my head that a 703 sitting on top of a RT3000 bass cabinet might be killer mated with the 706 center. I thought about searching for a set of RT3000 to make it happened but I didn't keep the LSiM for too long.

I Gimped this up years ago:


703's are still out there!

I more recently pitched my idea over the Summer to a gent in Canada on the Facebook Polk Audio group. He loves his RT5000 set but was looking for more.

He took the idea and the ball from me and ran with it. He loves it!





Here is his review: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1525670331061675/search/?q=RT3000 lsim703

Neil Sakaitis from Polk Audio Facebook Group wrote:

RT707 / LSiM3000 / LSiM707mkii is HERE - REVIEW !!!

John F. Williams Walter Dockins here it is !!

I have always had the upgrade itch, but I never understood why, as the RT3000 speakers are Polk's holy grail at the time, built for home theatre. Sound was amazing, but I was always curious what all the hype was about for the LSiM's and ring radiator tweeters. Why upgrade when I was perfectly happy with what I had, each demo had people talking with a big smile on their face.

It was on here that one Walter Dockins suggested that rather than make the difficult decision to part with a sound and speaker I love, just upgrade the tops. After all, the RT3000 is made up of RT55 tops over the powered dual 8's. Meaning a swap to the LSiM 703 up top would make perfect sense.

Also to note (if you have not noticed by my amp rack), I like to play my rig loud and hard often, I used to do pro audio, and like my audio to hit hard and sound clean. If I would have upgraded to the LSiM707's, that means my 250w of channel power would have been distributed to the entire tower, including the subs. So I would lose some possible output. By going this route, the 250w powers the tops, and the RT3000 plate amp (300w) continues to power the dual 8's, win win, a 550w tower setup.

OK, now for the review, how does it sound. Most of you LSiM owners think I was going to easily accept the upgrade with open arms. Nope, in fact the bar was set so high, I was expecting to be underwhelmed by the lack of output on the 703's due to the smaller mid and less punch/kick due to having only one 6.5" instead of the two on my RT55 tops.

This is how I would describe the upgrade broken down into various categories:

High end / staging
The LSiM's introduced higher octaves I felt the RT's were missing, the high-hats and crashes on drums were more present, same for the pluck of guitar strings. The soundstage was much, much wider, opened up so much. Very impressive what the ring radiators can do. When playing one of each on their side (703 on left, RT55 on right), I could hear the missing higher octaves coming off the 703, even when standing directly in front of the RT55. The roll off is that significant, and Audyssey always showed it on the post EQ, to make up for the RT rolloff.

Midrange -
Depends, I find the RT3000 had a harder, more forward sound, due to the larger drivers. If I wanted voices to slice thru the room, the RT3000 tops got the job done. BUT, over a period of time, I felt that I would have less ear fatigue enjoying the more balanced mids coming off of the smaller 703 driver. It was more neutral, softer than the 3000's. For music the LSiM's are amazing, for movies, I think the RT3000 would have a slight edge based purely on sheer output.

Woofer / Kick -
I was very surprised at how much tighter the 703 sounded, very controlled, and even at higher volumes, never distorted, and trust me when I say I tried to get it to the max excursion, but the driver just seems to be built with really tight tolerances, does not flop around as much as the RT did. So I was very pleased with the lower octaves. Perception is the 703 is capable of producing better, tighter low end than the RT55 tops, which is what shocked me the most, I expected the opposite.

Subs -
Well now, this is where the hybrid tower gains the advantage. Those 8" subs cannot be described in words. WIth a properly working set like mine (with upgraded plate amp components), those lower cabinets are tight, controlled, and hit HARD, without ever cracking a sweat. And the plate amp keeps them moving without taxing my power amps. It really brought the whole tower to life. You have to experience the RT3000 bottom end to understand where I am coming from. It's such an impressive design, with lots of power, very controlled excursion, with quick response.

Cabinets-
No comparison. The RT3000 looks like fake wood glued on top of MDF. The LSiM's are a work of art with the curved top and my favourite cherry color finish. So much so, that I plan to bring the RT3000 to a wood shop eventually to see if they can tear off the RT3000 brown finish and match the 703 cherry tops, including glossy black front. That is going to cost a pretty penny, but I have always invested so much money to keep my RT3000/CS1000 rig in mint condition, so why not.

Conclusion
I see / hear what all the LSiM hype is all about. The sound is truely amazing. That does not mean it's a hands down win for the LSiM. I did feel that I lost some of the wow factor output from the RT3000 tops, in terms of cranking the volume of a movie, and having the sound tear thru the room (with power amps). But the quality of sound on the LSiM is just a whole other level, very open soundstage, much higher freq range, tighter low end and vocals sounding so well balanced and true to the recording.

Hang tight, separate post coming with video (if FB allows me to upload a 5min video) to walk you thru the look and setup.

Video: https://www.facebook.com/1050963493/videos/1025137574963170/

rtart

Thanks for that. I've got a few sets of RT55's, and have played around with them with the RT3000 sub bases over the years. I also ran a pair as rear surrounds for a while until I found another set of RT3000 sats. The 55's sound very much like the RT3000 sats, but there is a difference. In the old days, we used to strive for identical speakers and use a RatShack dB meter and pink noise to match levels as well as we could. Although today's electronics have a lot more EQ'ing capabilities, starting out with voice matched speakers using the exact same drivers is a great place to start, IMO. I'll trade well placed and EQ'd moderate gear for high end gear that's not well setup any day.

I know my speakers can be replaced with newer ones, arguably with better sound, but the price to get an improvement of any real value would be substantial. I've listened to many other HT's, some with really high dollar systems, and haven't been tempted. Actually tried a set of SVS speakers a couple years ago. Hard to do an A-B test, of course, but after listening couldn't justify the cost.

I have lots of spare amps and drivers, so should be good for years to come. Thought someone might have some pieces in a closet.......

Have a great New Year!

ChrisD06

@WLDock Aha! You're the one from the Polk Audio Enthusiasts Facebook page!
Love the RT3000p setup.

@rtart As for the center channel idea, I think you'd be better off as using the CS1000p.
The tweeter would be at a better height, and the woofers would be balanced on both sides same with the subwoofers, for a much more 3 dimensional sound instead of a 1 dimensional or 2 dimensional one you'd get from a tower.

If you dont want the CS1000p, shoot me a price you'd want for it

rtart

Chris D06... I respectfully disagree.

Most center channel speakers have the drivers spaced out horizontally....by necessity. They usually have to fit under or over the display device. It's an engineering compromise. Because of this, some horizontal lobing is simply going to happen. (Here's some info on lobing if you are interested... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/some-help-with-lobing.22661/page-2) The questions, of course, are how much lobing will occur, is it readily audible, and, most importantly, does it matter to the listener?

The answers in my case are, "I don't know, but I'd like to try a single RT3000p speaker as a center to find out."

My acoustically transparent screen allows for use of an additional speaker that can exactly match the L+R front speakers. Since all speakers are already behind the 'projected image,' there is no need to use a speaker with horizontally spaced drivers. A matching center has exactly the same drivers, including the tweeter....at exactly the same height as the front L+R's.

In an ideal world, all of the speakers in a listening area would be identical. (Except, of course, for the subs. Multiple subs should also be identical.) Each speaker should also be full range, if possible. The RT3000p units have a published frequency response spec of 18Hz to 26kHz. At -3dB, that's 26Hz to 25kHz. (I use my processor to cross them over at 40Hz, though.)

If you are familiar with Gary Reber's writings, the editor of the sadly, soon-to-be- online-only, Widescreen Review magazine, he set up a 'holosonic' listening area many years using very high end identical speakers for each channel. Here's a link: https://www.widescreenreview.com/wsrreference.pdf

I've also read recently that the dipole/dipole capable speakers used for many years for side surrounds have fallen from favor. It seems that a preference for direct radiating, 'point source' speakers are now preferred. The argument is that the bipole/dipole driver orientation artificially created a more diffuse soundstage. I haven't yet swapped out my FX1000's at the side positions, though I use a pair of RT3000p upper sats for my rear surrounds. If I could find another pair, I might try them out for side surrounds, though.

The good news is that the price of the RT5000 speakers has fallen a lot...if you can find them.